How do you sparge

[BlightyBrewer]

I am setting up to go AG, and wondered how to go about sparging. I have a Brupak's Mash Tun / Boiler (with a mashing / sparging bag), and I am trying to decide whether to mash and sparge in this piece of equipment, or build a separate mash tun, using the Brupak's as a boiler / HLT. If I mash and boil in the Brupak's, then I will need a separate HLT for the sparge water. I am trying to minimise the amount of equipment needed as I am short on space.

I have heard that some people sparge using a watering can, but it seems to be an awkward way to do it, i.e. heating up sparge water, transfer to can etc..

Any advice?

 

[usmcruz]

I am setting up to go AG, and wondered how to go about sparging. I have a Brupak's Mash Tun / Boiler (with a mashing / sparging bag), and I am trying to decide whether to mash and sparge in this piece of equipment, or build a separate mash tun, using the Brupak's as a boiler / HLT. If I mash and boil in the Brupak's, then I will need a separate HLT for the sparge water. I am trying to minimise the amount of equipment needed as I am short on space.

I have heard that some people sparge using a watering can, but it seems to be an awkward way to do it, i.e. heating up sparge water, transfer to can etc..

Any advice?

Im an all-grain brewer. I have a stainless steel turkey fryer pot with spiget, Igloo water cooler with weldless stainless steel valve with a stainless steel false bottom and a converted keg to boil my wort. I use the turkey fryer pot to heat up the liquor for use in the igloo cooler (mash tun). Once I dough in or mash in as some people call it, I wait till about 30 minutes before sparging take's place and heat up the sparge water in the liquor tank (turkey pot). I attach a piece of high heat hose with a metal clamp to the spiget on the liquor tank and control the sparge with the shut off valve on the spiget. Sparge slowly. Should take you about 15 to 30 minutes. Once i sparge thats when my monster keg kettle comes into play. You can get a vigorous boil with no boil overs. I usually turn it on high and then go inside and eat because ive never had a boil over yet.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

I am setting up to go AG, and wondered how to go about sparging. I have a Brupak's Mash Tun / Boiler (with a mashing / sparging bag), and I am trying to decide whether to mash and sparge in this piece of equipment, or build a separate mash tun, using the Brupak's as a boiler / HLT. If I mash and boil in the Brupak's, then I will need a separate HLT for the sparge water. I am trying to minimise the amount of equipment needed as I am short on space.

I have heard that some people sparge using a watering can, but it seems to be an awkward way to do it, i.e. heating up sparge water, transfer to can etc..

Any advice?

i'd use your largest vessel for a boil kettle, 2nd largest for a mash tun, and then a smaller one to heat your mash/sparge water with. i have used two set ups for all grain. the one on www.cruisenews.net/brewing/ (the El Cheapo Mash Tun link on the right) and my 3 tier brew system:


the first is more labor intensive, the second allows gravity to do most. both produce great, consistent brews. i'd do a set up where you have a HLT, Mash/Lauter tun, and a brew kettle. when i used the watering can (insulated water cooler) i would use a large laddle to transfer water from a 5 g SS pot to my mash/lauter tun for mashing and sparging. once i added the water, i'd just screw the lid back on. worked great, temp's held great for 60 min mash too. like i said, just more labor intensive. now i just fill up the mash/lauter tun or HLT, heat, and let gravity do the rest. most of it has to do with available room and funds.
but i'd go with the 3 vessel set up.

 

[BlightyBrewer]

Thanks guys.

I think I am going to start of with batch sparging rather than fly sparging to cut down on equipment required. I shall also construct a cooler type mash tun, and use my Brupak's boiler as a boiler and HLT. This way I will only need to construct the mash tun, and I can use an old fermenter bucket to collect the runnings before transferring to the kettle (gently to avoid HSA!)....guess what I spent most of today doing at work (not work that's for sure!!)

That's a nice setup BTW DeRoux!

 

[user 574]

Agreed on DeRoux's setup. Nice.

Hate to hijack but I have a couple questions on your setup as I do believe that is what I envision for myself in '06. For your mash tun; do you put a cover over the top to retain the heat? Also, I assume you fly sparge; do you have a Phil's arm in there or what/how do you rinse? Recirculate runnings another . I could setup a separate thread to hammer you questions on . Either that or some close up pics would be awesome. gas plumbing, etc etc. I haven't seen a nice "how-to" 3 tier pictorial with instructions yet. Could go on my own but why not learn from others.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

Agreed on DeRoux's setup. Nice.

Hate to hijack but I have a couple questions on your setup as I do believe that is what I envision for myself in '06. For your mash tun; do you put a cover over the top to retain the heat? Also, I assume you fly sparge; do you have a Phil's arm in there or what/how do you rinse? Recirculate runnings another . I could setup a separate thread to hammer you questions on . Either that or some close up pics would be awesome. gas plumbing, etc etc. I haven't seen a nice "how-to" 3 tier pictorial with instructions yet. Could go on my own but why not learn from others.

no prob! check out my gallery. it has a pic of the sparge ring and my system. i have 12" SS lids that i use on all 3 kettles. i have a SS drain tube attached to my spigot on the mash tun. there's a pic in the gallery of me recirculating the wort (the one w/ the guard dog ). i just light a small flame under the mash tun to aid in recirculating, and i start running real slow into two large pitchers, and gently pour back on top of the grain bed. i do this for 20 minutes or so. just helps set the grain bed and aids in clarity (a little). then i set my boil kettle on the lower burner, and start sparging into the the kettle, and start running water from my HLT, through the sparge ring, on top of the grain bed. i usually sparge for 90 minutes.

holler back at me after you see the pics w/ any questions.

 

[user 574]

Thanks DeRoux. I guess I didn't prowl your gallery close enough!

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

if you want/need me to, i can take some close up pics of the plumbing, stand, kettles, etc. just let me know.

 

[Rhoobarb]

I batch sparge, similar to the Crusienews link referenced earlier.

 

[BlightyBrewer]

I batch sparge, similar to the Crusienews link referenced earlier.

Do you just "dump" the sparge water straight in there, stir, let stand for a few minutes, then drain, or are you more careful about pouring the water in the tun? What temp sparge water do you use?

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

I batch sparge, as well, and just dump it in, stir, and let it sit for 10-15 minutes. You don't need to be very careful pouring it in as you are going to stir, anyways (other than not burning yourself). You do need to recirculate a few liters again to clear the wort up and reset the grainbed. I find that 175F or just under water generally puts me in the 168F range for the sparge batch as my grains are generally still pretty warm.

 

[BlightyBrewer]

I batch sparge, as well, and just dump it in, stir, and let it sit for 10-15 minutes. You don't need to be very careful pouring it in as you are going to stir, anyways (other than not burning yourself). You do need to recirculate a few liters again to clear the wort up and reset the grainbed. I find that 175F or just under water generally puts me in the 168F range for the sparge batch as my grains are generally still pretty warm.

Does Hot Side Aeration only occur if you aerate when you draw the sweet liquor from the tun?

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

it can happen if you introduce O2 prior to the wort being chilled too.

 

[Orfy]

I batch sparge. (I reckon it's less wort but am not sure if it affect efficiency.
Adding 1/3 grain then 1/3 water stirring as I go along until all in.

Does aeration cause a problem preboil?
Surely the wort will be subjected to plenty of aeration from the boiling and foaming action anyway.

 

[BlightyBrewer]

Does aeration cause a problem preboil?

Surely the wort will be subjected to pleanty of aeration from the boiling and foaming action anyway.

Apparently it does, but you make a good point Orfy. Here's what I found.

http://byo.com/mrwizard/897.html

 

[david_42]

I batch sparge by dumping the water in at 170F. I stir it and let it sit for 10 minutes, then re-circulate for 5 minutes before draining. I generally do two sparges.

 

[Dude]

Does Hot Side Aeration only occur if you aerate when you draw the sweet liquor from the tun?

Oh boy....

I introduced this question to the brewmaster at St. George Brewery when we had a homebrew club meeting there. He pretty much said HSA is a myth.

If you think about it--think of the oxygen being introduced to the beer from the whirlpool tank when it is being transferred before cooling. I tend to agree with him but I'm just not sure. Some people really are anal about it.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

My understanding is that mash to boil pot is less bad than boil kettle to carboy or whatever, since the temp is so high. I believe it has to be over 150 or so before oxidation can be an issue, probably higher than that. Since you immediatley boil the wort the oxygen amscrays pretty fast.

But then not having a doctorate in bio-chemestry...I won't profess to know the answer with any degree of finality.

 

[El Pistolero]

My understanding is that mash to boil pot is less bad than boil kettle to carboy or whatever, since the temp is so high. I believe it has to be over 150 or so before oxidation can be an issue, probably higher than that.

I thought the same thing as you, until I read the BYO article that Blighty posted. Turns out (according to Mr. Wizard anyway) that we were exactly wrong.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Sans-Serif] Mr. Wizard replies: Hot-side aeration is a loose term referring to oxygen pickup in the “hot side” operations of brewing. These include mashing, lautering, wort boiling and hop separation at temperatures ranging from about 120–212° F. Over about the last 15 years, researchers have presented evidence that hot-side aeration — especially prior to wort boiling — decreases the shelf-life of beer by increasing the concentration of oxidized fatty acids. These compounds are carried forward into the beer and impart classic stale flavors such as the infamous “wet cardboard” type of oxidation.

I am a skeptic by nature, but I find that the data demonstrating the negative affects of hot-side aeration during mashing and lautering are convincing. I am still skeptical that deleterious HSA occurs in the boil, however. The temperature range during mashing and lautering is low enough that oxygen can indeed dissolve into the liquid and cause oxidation. In contrast, boiling wort (and wort immediately after boiling) is so hot that very little oxygen can be dissolved in it. [/FONT]

So hot-side aeration during mashing is bad...after boil not quite so bad. Another interesting tidbit there is that the effects occur from 120-212[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Sans-Serif]°. I've seen a few here say you need to cool to below 80[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Sans-Serif]°[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Sans-Serif] to avoid hot side aeration[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Sans-Serif], which according to this may be a little over cautious.[/FONT]

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

i wait until i reach my pitching temp before i whirlpool the wort, then let the cold break settle for 15 minutes. then i transfer, aerate, and pitch. maybe over cautious, but it always works....

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

The one time I tried whirlpooling with the wort cool the trub didn't really seem to mound up in the center like it does when I whirlpool hot, but I never tried it again. Sure would be easier without the chiller in the way.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

I thought the same thing as you, until I read the BYO article that Blighty posted. Turns out (according to Mr. Wizard anyway) that we were exactly wrong.

Of course your beer has to LAST long enough to even experience the negative effects of HSA. Or CSA for that matter.

Now, (for the extremely paronoid regarding oxidation and/or for the scientifically curious) I know Ascorbic acid can reduce CSA oxidation, but can it be added to the mash without effecting PH to much and would it help regarding HSA? Would the boil effect it?

 

[DJP]

I haven't found much difference in either speed or efficiency between batch and fly sparging. Batch sparging always works out like this:

Adding sparge water and stirring in, 2-3 mins
Standing to allow the bed to settle, 5 mins
Recirculating cloudy wort, 5 mins
Completely draining the grain bed, 10-15mins

Then repeat.

Each time I've done it it's taken around 50 minutes - it takes me about 45 to fly sparge and my efficiency's the same (around 80%) with both methods. I accept that I could probably batch sparge a bit quicker, but I'm not prepared to risk cloudy beer to save 5 minutes.

I fly sparge nowadays simply because I already own a sparging arm, but if I didn't have it already I'd just use the batch method.

 

[jeffg]

I did not even realize batch sparging was an option. I was always under the impression disturbing the grain bed was a no-no during sparging. Also, I would think just dumping in the sparge water and stirring would easily lead to a clogged false bottom, no? In any event, maybe i'm old fashioned, but I love the process of slowly filtering sparge water through with a sparge arm. It takes a long time, but I get clear beer and good gravity so I guess I'll stick with it.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

I did not even realize batch sparging was an option. I was always under the impression disturbing the grain bed was a no-no during sparging. Also, I would think just dumping in the sparge water and stirring would easily lead to a clogged false bottom, no? In any event, maybe i'm old fashioned, but I love the process of slowly filtering sparge water through with a sparge arm. It takes a long time, but I get clear beer and good gravity so I guess I'll stick with it.

i'm with you bro! we've had the debate on aerating the mash during the sparge and how that could/couldn't be detrimental to the purpose of the set grain bed. we agreed to disagree

 

[djmd]

I'm getting ready to start all grain but I'm still on the fly vs. batch fence.

Can someone clear up the whole "recirculation of wort" deal? Is this just running the first runnings back through the grain bed to filter out cloudiness? Why does it become cloudy in the first place? Thanks a bunch....

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

the first runnings will be cloudy from proteins in the bottom part of the liquor. you recirculate 1. to help set the grain bed prior to sparging, 2. to aid in wort clarity. it just uses the grain bed as a filter. some say it doesn't do a lot, some say it helps in clarity. i recirculate for about 20 minutes before i start my sparge.

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

I find batch sparging much faster, but I only do one sparge. I get half my boil volume from my mash, and half from my sparge. I used to let it sit for 10-15 minutes (the batch sparge), but tried it a few times without letting it sit and didn't notice any difference. Now I just dump the sparge water in, stir, circulate, drain.

 

[Orfy]

BeeGee, are you using 1.33qt/gallon for your mash?

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

BeeGee, are you using 1.33qt/gallon for your mash?

I vary it...depends on how much grain I'm using and how much volume I'm collecting (which is almost always 7g). For instance, last weekend my ratio was around 1.15, but before Christmas I had a batch ~1.7 IIRC. What I have started to incorporate is to mash at a ratio whereby I can add a quantity of boiling water at the end of the mash which will bring me into the 165-170F range and runoff half of my batch (3.5g). Confused? I am.