House ipa recipe critique please

[dlampen45]

Sort of a blend of two hearted and zombie dust (i think at least). I'm going to do side by side 5 gallon batches, one with s04 and the other s05. 2 hearted is my go-to but i think if it was more available I'd have a case of zombie on hand so apart from the citra (i think that's what's in it anyways) sort of melded the two grain bills. Anyways:
11 lbs 2 row
1 lbs crystal 40
1.25 munich 10
1 lbs carapils
.75oz cascade 60min .75oz centennial 60mi
.75oz cascade 20min .75oz centennial 20mi
.5oz cascade 1 min .5 oz centennial 1min
1oz centennial dry hop
From brewersfriend i get-
OG 1.062. FG 1.015. IBU 71. SRM 8.8.
BU/GU 1.21 ABV 6.2%
Figured 5.25 batch post boil, boil 7 gal at 63% eff

 

[Brett3rThanU]

That's a lot of carapils/crystal malts for my taste, but to each his own. If it were me I'd definitely keep it below 10% for an IPA. I'd add more hops at flameout and dryhop as well.

 

[dlampen45]

Think both of those totaling about 14% will come out to sweet? If i knock the carapils down so they total 10 (around .5lbs) and make up for it in 2 row will i give up a lot of body/head?

 

[bobbrews]

1.066 OG
1.013 FG (or lower)
152 F Mash Temp

13# 2-Row
1# Munich 10L
1/2# C40
1/2# Carapils

1.25 oz. Centennial @ 60
1.25 oz. Cascade @ 10
1.25 oz. Centennial @ 10
1.00 oz. Cascade @ Hopstand
1.00 oz. Centennial @ Hopstand
1.75 oz. Cascade @ 5 Day Dryhop
1.75 oz. Centennial @ 5 Day Dryhop

 

[rjschroed]

Think both of those totaling about 14% will come out to sweet? If i knock the carapils down so they total 10 (around .5lbs) and make up for it in 2 row will i give up a lot of body/head?

I think both of those totaling 14% have the potential to come out sweet. I would reduce them equally. Yes, make up for it in 2-row. Don't worry, you'll have body and head. I don't care for cascade hops as a bittering addition personally. I'm not sure how anyone else feels about them but I've noticed that the longer they boil, the more almost soapy flavor they impart in my beers. I think the schedule and recipe above looks pretty good.

 

[hanuswalrus]

Personally, I would go with something closer to what bobbrews posted. But it's your beer.

 

[Yooper]

1.066 OG
1.013 FG (or lower)
152 F Mash Temp

13# 2-Row
1# Munich 10L
1/2# C40
1/2# Carapils

1.25 oz. Centennial @ 60
1.25 oz. Cascade @ 10
1.25 oz. Centennial @ 10
1.00 oz. Cascade @ Hopstand
1.00 oz. Centennial @ Hopstand
1.75 oz. Cascade @ 5 Day Dryhop
1.75 oz. Centennial @ 5 Day Dryhop

That is almost exactly what I was thinking! Weird, but I was thinking something just like that, and then I saw it here. Nice combination of centennial and cascade, with a malt backbone.

I wouldn't use S04 (dislike its 'tart' flavor), but if you can keep it under 63 degrees, the tart flavor will be minimized and masked by all the hops and it will leave a nice clear beer.

S05 takes forever to clear for me, so I rarely use it but I do like the nice clean flavor it makes for IPAs.

 

[dlampen45]

No problem keeping ferm under 63, im struggling to get my chamber above that with the winter we're in, but that's a whole different topic involving a boot dryer possibly
I thought i read somewhere that 3F uses something close to 04 for their house yeast, just thought I'd give it a try haven't used it on anything yet.
But just changed it to about what bobsbrews posted, .5lbs less 2 row just to keep abv right around 6 and it looks great

 

[Onkel_Udo]

No problem keeping ferm under 63, im struggling to get my chamber above that with the winter we're in, but that's a whole different topic involving a boot dryer possibly
I thought i read somewhere that 3F uses something close to 04 for their house yeast, just thought I'd give it a try haven't used it on anything yet.
But just changed it to about what bobsbrews posted, .5lbs less 2 row just to keep abv right around 6 and it looks great

I love S04 and if you are cool enough it rocks because...

Beer is done...and I mean done...fermenting in about 72 hours at 60f if you pitch appropriately

Beer is clear in about 7 days (after krausen falls) with no finnings so you can bottle by day 10 if you are doing a 7-day dry hop

 

[dlampen45]

Damn, if i get a slight fruity taste like I'm hoping for with this it might be my go to for a lot of basic styles. I can deal with clear in 10 days, i always do a secondary to help clear anyways sounds like it'll rock it! And 60degrees Is about what my room is with a few blankets over the carboys

 

[bobbrews]

The fruitiness you seek will be delivered mainly from bombarding an IPA with a lot of late hops and dryhops. If you desire this, then I would suggest going with my above recipe suggestion; maybe add an additional ounce of hopstand hops and an additional ounce of dryhops.

S05 is a rather clean yeast that will not give off much in the way of detectable flavor if fermented around 62-64 F. "Clean" yeast for an IPA is a good thing IMO. I mainly rely on S05, San Diego Super, WLP001, Wyeast 1056 for my IPAs. But Conan is tough to beat if you want some additional fruitiness. Wyeast 1968 is also a good fruity choice.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Damn, if i get a slight fruity taste like I'm hoping for with this it might be my go to for a lot of basic styles. I can deal with clear in 10 days, i always do a secondary to help clear anyways sounds like it'll rock it! And 60degrees Is about what my room is with a few blankets over the carboys

With S04...do not put those blankets on until the airlock slows or you krausen drops. cooler is better withing reason. I did not notice it slow down until about 55 degrees. S04 can raise fluid temps by as much as 10 f and normally about 5 f.

 

[dlampen45]

Wow, i never realized yeast could change it that much. Thanks for the recipe bobbrews I think I'm going to follow what you said pretty closely. Might throw some additional cascade in dryhop since their free (friend harvested about 30oz last year screwing around for me)

 

[hanuswalrus]

No problem keeping ferm under 63, im struggling to get my chamber above that with the winter we're in, but that's a whole different topic involving a boot dryer possibly
I thought i read somewhere that 3F uses something close to 04 for their house yeast, just thought I'd give it a try haven't used it on anything yet.
But just changed it to about what bobsbrews posted, .5lbs less 2 row just to keep abv right around 6 and it looks great

I've been told that 3 Floyds uses WY1968 as their house strain

 

[bobbrews]

I've been told that 3 Floyds uses WY1968 as their house strain

So does Ninkasi, and both breweries put out fantastic IPAs.

 

[dlampen45]

04 is a substitute for 1968 as far as i can tell from every thing I've read. I'm discovering I'm a dry yeast guy unless i need something out of the ordinary I.e belgians

 

[bobbrews]

S04 is a substitute for wlp007 and wyeast 1098... Not wyeast 1968

 

[dlampen45]

So i just put this together today, and accidentally got breiss pale ale 2 row instead of brewers. (I bought a 50 lbs bag and didn't read the whole stupid label)
According to their website it's quite a bit roasty-er than the brewers but when i put it into brewersfriend the only thing that changes is srm. Bump up the bittering hops a bit or roll with it.

 

[dlampen45]

Thanks for the heads up Onkel. I'm 16 hours post pitching right now. Cracked the 04 lid in the basement and it's churning away at 63. I left the 05 upstairs in the wife's office and that's at 69.

 

[dlampen45]

I love S04 and if you are cool enough it rocks because...

Beer is done...and I mean done...fermenting in about 72 hours at 60f if you pitch appropriately

Beer is clear in about 7 days (after krausen falls) with no finnings so you can bottle by day 10 if you are doing a 7-day dry hop

On day 4 for both of them here, 05 is still bubbling a bit (no where close to where it started) and 04 has stopped as far as i can tell. I was going to wait one more day to dry hop the 04,but should i bump the temp a bit or leave it for the whole duration before kegging?

 

[Onkel_Udo]

On day 4 for both of them here, 05 is still bubbling a bit (no where close to where it started) and 04 has stopped as far as i can tell. I was going to wait one more day to dry hop the 04,but should i bump the temp a bit or leave it for the whole duration before kegging?

I'd start you dry hopping now on the S-04 and bring it up to the high 60's. Sure, you may still be ferementing but the activity that causes off flavors for S-04 is done and now it is clean-up and CO2 coming out of solution (you may not have that much in solution at 63f).

 

[dlampen45]

Just checked temp and gravity. The 04 is at 1.02 at 59F, corrected it'll be a .001 lower. The 05 is 66F and 1.013. I'm going to raise the 04 temp up like you said and try to maintain the 05 and dryhop both simultaneously. Should the 04 be taking that long? The krausen is out but it has been hovering right around 60 so I'm just attributing the slower finish to the cool temp. Recipe says it should finish at 1.015 so it's close

 

[dlampen45]

Ohh one more thing. I was planning on racking these off the yeast and then dry hopping. (Using 2 other buckets i hate dry hopping in glass)

 

[kombat]

i always do a secondary to help clear anyways

FYI, racking to another vessel doesn't actually help the beer clear any faster. If you left it undisturbed in the primary vessel for the same length of time, the beer would end up equally clear (if not clearer).

Feel free to rack to secondary for other reasons (need the fermenter for another batch, want to re-use the yeast, etc.), but clarity shouldn't be one of them.

I was planning on racking these off the yeast and then dry hopping. (Using 2 other buckets i hate dry hopping in glass)

Make sure you're minimizing headspace. Buckets typically leave a lot of open space above the beer, increasing the risk of oxidation and infection. That's why people rack beer to 5 gallon carboys for secondary, because it leaves almost no headspace and (ideally) fills the carboy right up to the airlock.

 

[dlampen45]

I guess i left that reason out, im going to need a pair of buckets (whether it be these or the other 2 i have sitting) on Friday for a saison and a lemondrop ipa trial.
Anyways, I've got about 5.25 gal in the 6.5 gal buckets to make up for the loss ill have racking into a keg so the headspace isn't terribly big. Maybe ill just dryhop in the original so I'm not moving it around 20 times for nothing.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Just checked temp and gravity. The 04 is at 1.02 at 59F, corrected it'll be a .001 lower. The 05 is 66F and 1.013. I'm going to raise the 04 temp up like you said and try to maintain the 05 and dryhop both simultaneously. Should the 04 be taking that long? The krausen is out but it has been hovering right around 60 so I'm just attributing the slower finish to the cool temp. Recipe says it should finish at 1.015 so it's close

Attenuation for S-04 is not super but 1.019 does seem high but I would not expect it to get lower than about 1.017 for that recipe.

 

[PLOVE]

Love the use of split batching to play with different yeast strains. Agree with other posts that the 1# cara is a bit much when you already have crystal and munich. If you are worried about having too much sweetness you could consider dropping your mash temp to 150 or even 148. Otherwise - give it whirl. We can all look at recipes and make recommendations based on beers we've brewed, but we've never brewed this exact brew (most likely). Sometimes you can be surprised - hopefully pleasantly, or chock it up to a gaining some drinkable brewing knowledge.

Interested in Yoop's comment about S05 and clarity. I have the same problem, even with cold-crashing. I don't really care too much about clear beer, but was more curious if anyone had any luck with gelatin or other clarifying agent. There are those out there who equate cloudy with Hef, and then are shocked when the beer is a DIPA. ..

 

[rjschroed]

Just checked temp and gravity. The 04 is at 1.02 at 59F, corrected it'll be a .001 lower. The 05 is 66F and 1.013. I'm going to raise the 04 temp up like you said and try to maintain the 05 and dryhop both simultaneously. Should the 04 be taking that long? The krausen is out but it has been hovering right around 60 so I'm just attributing the slower finish to the cool temp. Recipe says it should finish at 1.015 so it's close

Just a thought and it might be too late but with 04 being a high flocculating strain and the cooler temperature you might not have completed fermentation but instead stopped it. warm it up to the mid 60s (the bulk of the fermentation is done, it shouldn't effect flavor much, if at all), swirl it and give it a few days. You can probably skip the swirling part if you can catch the beer before the yeast completely flocculate. Can probably skip the swirling part all together if you really want.

Interested in Yoop's comment about S05 and clarity. I have the same problem, even with cold-crashing. I don't really care too much about clear beer, but was more curious if anyone had any luck with gelatin or other clarifying agent. There are those out there who equate cloudy with Hef, and then are shocked when the beer is a DIPA. ..

I didn't want to say anything before but is what is interesting to me about this is that I typically don't have a lot of problems. It's not 1968 concrete but with a little patiences it isn't a problem. Ca levels in your water can play a role in yeast flocculation, maybe it's something worth thinking about. I think in White and Zainasheff's yeast book the number mentioned is a minimum of 50ppm.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Just a thought and it might be too late but with 04 being a high flocculating strain and the cooler temperature you might not have completed fermentation but instead stopped it. warm it up to the mid 60s (the bulk of the fermentation is done, it shouldn't effect flavor much, if at all), swirl it and give it a few days. You can probably skip the swirling part if you can catch the beer before the yeast completely flocculate. Can probably skip the swirling part all together if you really want.

In my experience, S-04 will keep chuggin along for virtually ever if it is not "shocked" by a significant drop in temp. It just plain doe not attenuate as far as some calculators suggest. It reall does leave a "malty" flavor.

Absolutely increase the temp even to 70 f but do not expect the FG to drop that that awful much since the bulk of the fermentation is done by now.

 

[dlampen45]

Thanks for all the advice with the 04 guys. I raised the temp about 5 degrees and dryhopped both batches (1.75 oz cascade leaf and centennial pellets) yesterday. Planning on leaving it til Sunday and then racking and cold crashing and hopefully i can get a keg or two opened up by then to get these babies on tap!

 

[rjschroed]

Just a thought and it might be too late but with 04 being a high flocculating strain and the cooler temperature you might not have completed fermentation but instead stopped it. warm it up to the mid 60s (the bulk of the fermentation is done, it shouldn't effect flavor much, if at all), swirl it and give it a few days. You can probably skip the swirling part if you can catch the beer before the yeast completely flocculate. Can probably skip the swirling part all together if you really want.

In my experience, S-04 will keep chuggin along for virtually ever if it is not "shocked" by a significant drop in temp. It just plain doe not attenuate as far as some calculators suggest. It reall does leave a "malty" flavor.

Absolutely increase the temp even to 70 f but do not expect the FG to drop that that awful much since the bulk of the fermentation is done by now.

Could well be the case. I think we are both alluding to the point that raising the temp a bit will help it to "finish" a bit faster.