Hot Fermenting Questions, 90 deg ?

[WileECoyote]

Hello, I live in Arizona, it gets 125 deg during summer, in the house its 85 deg, ac running full blast, I have read all about using a fridge to, cool ferment in, but I haven't found out much about fermenting at 85 deg air temp other than do not do it. so my question is if I use a saison yeast that is suppose to be at 90 deg for fermentation will it produce ester alcohol, (is ester alcohol produced from fermenting over a certain temp or from over temping a yeast?) and will it have off flavors that I have read about or since it's made for 90 deg fermentation will it ferment clean ? and can I brew a Hefe type beer using saison yeast? or maybe a porter or stouts?
Thanks
WileECoyote
Cheers

 

[homebrewdad]

Saison yeast is proabbly your best bet if you can't get the temps down.

Note that your beers may have a bit of a different character with a different yeast - though you may end up with a great creation that way.

Incidentally, esters are flavors produced by yeast. Sometimes these are desired, soemtimes not, and different yeasts make different esters (sometimes at different temperature ranges ). Fusel alcohols are the "rocket fuel" flavors you get by high fermentation temps.

 

[Trail]

A Belgian saison yeast will ferment at 85-90, but it won't ferment "clean" - that's part of the saison style, and a product of the yeast's metabolic processes. You can brew a stout recipe with saison yeast, but you'll get a lot of saison flavors like bubblegum and barnyard funkiness in with your roast flavors.

If you want to brew most classic beer styles, you'll need to ferment in a mini-fridge with thermostat control.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I'm thinking banana will be a trait of the beer.

Swamp cooler with a fan?

Seriously, there is a way.

 

[H-ost]

Look into swamp coolers. It might take quite a bit of replacing the ice with that high of ambient temps though...

 

[Maxkling]

The saison yeast will completely change your beer.

I use a chest freezer and I'm in Atlanta. There are many ways depending on how much interaction you want. I like to set it and forget it till its done. But you can look at swap coolers or submerging you fermenter into a water bath and changing out ice bottles, etc.

 

[spenghali]

Use the summers to make some saisons. Chill your wort low and let the fermentation naturally rise up to your ambient temp over a few days, this is usually what you would want for a saison yeast anyways. Saisons are so diverse (pretty much using saison yeast is the only thing you need to do for it to be a saison), so it should keep you busy all summer.

If you don't want this, you can search the forums for building ferm chambers, or perhaps your basement is cooler. You can also use a big rubbermaid bin (round) and fill it with water to have more thermal mass and keep your temperatures in check better.

 

[BrewinHooligan]

I'm in AZ too and use a rubbermaid tub (doesn't matter what shape) with water about halfway up the fermenter. Right now the house is 75+ and my fermometer is staying around 63 by replacing frozen 2 liter bottles twice a day. Right now I only have to use 1 ice bottle at a time. In the summer, I will probably have to use 2 or 3 but it is a cheap/easy fix until I can get a mini fridge and temp controller.

 

[WileECoyote]

Thank You every one for all of your replies, this forum is great, Im sure its obvious im a real noob to brewing, so new in-fact that I will be brewing my first batch ever this weekend, if my brewing kit ( with a red ale ) show's up that is, so if I use a Saisons yeast and want to use high temp fermenting ? do any of you have a good recipe to go with it? its going to get hot here soon.
Thanks
WileECoyote

 

[cheezydemon3]

Seriously, a tub and a t-shirt and a fan will get it down enough without ice.

 

[WileECoyote]

Use the summers to make some saisons. Chill your wort low and let the fermentation naturally rise up to your ambient temp over a few days, this is usually what you would want for a saison yeast anyways. Saisons are so diverse (pretty much using saison yeast is the only thing you need to do for it to be a saison), so it should keep you busy all summer.

If you don't want this, you can search the forums for building ferm chambers, or perhaps your basement is cooler. You can also use a big rubbermaid bin (round) and fill it with water to have more thermal mass and keep your temperatures in check better.

Thanks spenghali for your reply, the first part of your reply is along the lines of what I am looking for, any hot fermenting yeast and or hot fermenting beer recipes would be great!
Thanks
WileECoyote

 

[TopherM]

$50.00 for good chest freezers all over craigslist
$55-65 for a Johnson A419 temp controller
=
Temperature controlled fermentation chamber

Chest freezers are WAYYYY more energy efficient than normal fridges (something on the order to $20-25 a year to operate), so you can even keep it outside if you don't have the floorspace for it.

 

[WileECoyote]

Seriously, a tub and a t-shirt and a fan will get it down enough without ice.

Thanks cheezydemon, the reason Im asking about a high temp fermenting, is that when its 125 deg out side, 85 deg in the house with ac running full blast, if Im figuring this out right? 85 deg air temp + 10 deg carboy fermenting temp - 10 deg to 15 deg wet towel with fan on carboy, brings you back to 85 to 90 deg fermenting temp. and Im a noob so I could be way off on this, I have been reading a lot trying to learn, but I haven't found much about fermenting at 85 to 90 deg yet.
Thank You
WileECoyote

 

[WileECoyote]

Saison yeast is proabbly your best bet if you can't get the temps down.

Note that your beers may have a bit of a different character with a differen yeast - though you may end up with a great creation that way.

Incidentally, esters are flavors produced by yeast. Sometimes these are desired, soemtimes not, and differetn yeasts make different esters (sometimes at different temperature ranges ). Fusel alcohols are the "rocket fuel" flavors you get by high fermentation temps.

Thanks homebrewdad, I knew I was going to get something messed up on my post, thanks for letting me know that esters are flavors produced by yeast by the yeast. so its the Fusel alcohol that I read about, is that be produced by any high temp fermenting? or is it produced by fermenting at higher than the yeast is to be used at?
Thanks
WileECoyote
Thanks
WileECoyote

 

[azmark]

az here as well,,,just get a mini fridge or freezer off craigslist like Topher suggested, then you can brew whatever you like.

 

[WileECoyote]

A Belgian saison yeast will ferment at 85-90, but it won't ferment "clean" - that's part of the saison style, and a product of the yeast's metabolic processes. You can brew a stout recipe with saison yeast, but you'll get a lot of saison flavors like bubblegum and barnyard funkiness in with your roast flavors.

If you want to brew most classic beer styles, you'll need to ferment in a mini-fridge with thermostat control.

Thanks Kerin, do you have any recommendations? recipes? and Im good with a beer with floaty's in it, I kinda like shock-top, if clean and high temp fermenting don't go hand and hand Im good with that, I just didn't know.
Thanks
WileECoyote

 

[homebrewdad]

Thanks Kerin, do you have any recommendations? recipes? and Im good with a beer with floaty's in it, I kinda like shock-top, if clean and high temp fermenting don't go hand and hand Im good with that, I just didn't know.
Thanks
WileECoyote

By "clean", Kerin is talking about the off flavors that you'll get (fruity, bubblegum, etc) - not that you'll get floaties. These are desired in a saison, not so much in other styles if you are trying to be true to style.

Fusels usually come from stressed yeast operating at the upper end of their temperature range, and can give you a warm, boozy, or solvent taste in your beer.

 

[WileECoyote]

az here as well,,,just get a mini fridge or freezer off craigslist like Topher suggested, then you can brew whatever you like.

Thanks azmark, I have a extra fridge, but I would really like to find a brew that I can fermenting hot, just to do it, or learn why you really cant do it, I would think that their has to be people out there making good beer at 85 to 90 deg fermenting temps, I could be wrong.
Thanks
WileECoyote

 

[WileECoyote]

By "clean", Kerin is talking about the off flavors that you'll get (fruity, bubblegum, etc) - not that you'll get floaties. These are desired in a saison, not so much in other styles if you are trying to be true to style.

Fusels usually come from stressed yeast operating at the upper end of their temperature range, and can give you a warm, boozy, or solvent taste in your beer.

Thanks homeprewdad, Im catching on, this is all very new to me, Im still working on what means what.
Thanks
WileECoyote

 

[azmark]

Thanks azmark, I have a extra fridge, but I would really like to find a brew that I can fermenting hot, just to do it, or learn why you really cant do it, I would think that their has to be people out there making good beer at 85 to 90 deg fermenting temps, I could be wrong.
Thanks
WileECoyote

Are you sure you like the style? Another fermenting tip is keep your temps consistant,,AZ is hard to do that with super hot days and cool nights, and no basements.

If you could keep a consistant 87* you might be able to brew a good saison. But with a wild temp ride the yeast aren't going to be making what you want.

 

[homebrewdad]

If you could keep a consistant 87* you might be able to brew a good saison. But with a wild temp ride the yeast aren't going to be making what you want.

This. If you like saisons, then you have your answer - good beer at high temp. Just be sure to keep the temp stablle; big swings will really hurt the flavor.

 

[WileECoyote]

Thank You, to everyone, any and all information is helping, this is a great forum, its really nice to ask noob questions and not get bashed on, Im very impressed how everyone has answered without making me feel like a noob, Thank You and keep em coming!
WileECoyote

 

[WileECoyote]

Are you sure you like the style? Another fermenting tip is keep your temps consistant,,AZ is hard to do that with super hot days and cool nights, and no basements.

If you could keep a consistant 87* you might be able to brew a good saison. But with a wild temp ride the yeast aren't going to be making what you want.

Thanks azmark, I can keep the house at 85 to 87 deg consistent temp, and Im not sure about that saison's style of beer, yet but Im thinking when it gets hot Im going to find out lol, I do like a lot of different types of beers light to dark, I also do like a sweet beer so it might just be what Im looking for.
Thanks
WileECoyote

 

[WileECoyote]

Update.
The saison is in the fridge and its a hit with me, the wife dose not like it=saison taste, Im going to be brewing this one again, I went with the Belgian Saison yeast 75 to 95deg fermenting temps range on the label. and of corse the day after I brewed we had 5 cool days in a row 70deg-ish lmao I had to keep adding hot water to the tub to keep it within the range and didn't have to use any ice for my other brews, now that its 100+ every day this saison is going to be my new brewing friend.

This was my own first recipe, first saison and my first brew with herbs only too, I figured what the heck, rolled the dice, and got a winner, I added the herbs too soon and they along with the 1oz coriander are too bitter, so Im using this brew as a shanty 50/50 mix of brew and tonic water and its great this way.

I will be adjusting the addition times of the herbs and most likely not using coriander any more as I have 2 brews with coriander and both taste very very astringent/bitter/lemon to me, my wife loves the other brew (NTOLERANCE's amber/wheat) brewed exactly to instructions, my wife states that its as good as any beer that she has ever had, So Im convinced my taste buds are hyper sensitive to coriander, so say-la-vee to coriander.

Cheers

 

[RiffMagnum]

Update.
The saison is in the fridge and its a hit with me, the wife dose not like it=saison taste, Im going to be brewing this one again, I went with the Belgian Saison yeast 75 to 95deg fermenting temps range on the label. and of corse the day after I brewed we had 5 cool days in a row 70deg-ish lmao I had to keep adding hot water to the tub to keep it within the range and didn't have to use any ice for my other brews, now that its 100+ every day this saison is going to be my new brewing friend.

This was my own first recipe, first saison and my first brew with herbs only too, I figured what the heck, rolled the dice, and got a winner, I added the herbs too soon and they along with the 1oz coriander are too bitter, so Im using this brew as a shanty 50/50 mix of brew and tonic water and its great this way.

I will be adjusting the addition times of the herbs and most likely not using coriander any more as I have 2 brews with coriander and both taste very very astringent/bitter/lemon to me, my wife loves the other brew (NTOLERANCE's amber/wheat) brewed exactly to instructions, my wife states that its as good as any beer that she has ever had, So Im convinced my taste buds are hyper sensitive to coriander, so say-la-vee to coriander.

Cheers

I think you mean shandy.

 

[WileECoyote]

I think you mean shandy.

lol yes I do

 

[WileECoyote]

Update, Last weekend I brewed a new saison batch (Belgian saison yeast, Ideal Temperature Range (°F) 70-95F, (21-35C)) with honey, orange, no coriander, and herbs steeped for 3 min then added to the 80 deg wort just before pitching the yeast, I did steeping test with my herb additions and found that a 3 min steeping extraction, then immediately cool to be a great way to extract the herb flavors without getting any astringent-ness from them.

I (swamp cooler) controlled 1st day of (vigorous fermentation) at 72 deg, 2nd day at 76 deg, today is day 3 and will be kept at 80 deg, from day 4 it will be kept at 85 deg, day 5 on it will be kept at 85 deg, easy to do (no ice needed in swamp cooler, whooo hooo ) in a house that is kept at 85 deg and still well under the 95 deg high temp range.

The 1st saison is almost 1/2 gone now, its been a very refreshing drink mixing it with the tonic water.

The amber/wheat is all gone, my wife is bummed, me to as the coriander is starting to mellow, except one 6 pack Im saving to see how it is after 4 months aging.

I will update the new brews progress as it happens

Cheers

 

[Tiredboy]

Also thinking about brewing a saison as my keezer/fermentation chamber may not have enough space in without remioving keg/wine which I don't want to do for too long (intend on putting it in chamber for a few days then letting it sit in spare room as around 80-90F). Is there a dry yeast that can successfully be used for a saison?

 

[WileECoyote]

Also thinking about brewing a saison as my keezer/fermentation chamber may not have enough space in without remioving keg/wine which I don't want to do for too long (intend on putting it in chamber for a few days then letting it sit in spare room as around 80-90F). Is there a dry yeast that can successfully be used for a saison?

I haven't found a dry saison yeast yet, but I have not really looked very hard for one ether.

I used the wyeast 3724 belgian saison yeast for the simple fact that it has the 95 deg top fermenting temp, and its low is 70 deg, much higher limits than other yeast.

You can have it shipped with a cheap freezer pack wrapped around it, if I were to order liquid yeast now I would order it on a sunday and have them wrap yeast with 3 freezer packs, and Im still not sure it would survive, were at 110+ deg now almost every day.

I would go for it, very easy to maintain a brew at 80 to 85 deg temps.

Cheers and good luck

 

[Tiredboy]

I live in Jamaica and shipping liquid yeast is not an option.