Hoppy Red Ale critique

[rafaelpinto]

Hey guys, I am struggling with a hoppy red ale recipe. It is hard to decide if there is too much biscuity/bready malts and too little caramel malts.

This red ale should not have burnt caramel notes nor toasted notes. I want the sweetness of caramel, but something subtle. Here is the recipe, help will be much appreciated.

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67% Pilsner
7.5% Carared
7.5% Red X
7.5% Vienna
5% Crystal 40
3% Melanoidin
2.5% Biscuit

- 3.5 oz of Cascade on boiling for a total of 35 IBU
- 3.5 oz of Mandarin hops for dry hopping

 

[rafaelpinto]

Maybe cut Vienna and increase the crystal 40? I wouldnt like it to feel like a brown ale or something like that...

 

[rafaelpinto]

Please, no one? Im going to brew that one in a few hours... id like some inputs on the recipe.

 

[Demus]

I'd be using a base malt other than Pilsner (marris otter or 2-row) and about 75-80% of it. Reduce the others to compensate. If you have any roasted barley or other dark specialty grain on hand and it's not red enough for you, add an ounce or two in a grain bag at the end of the boil. It'll add minimal flavor but bring on the red color you're after...


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[Barley_Bob]

Yooper would say, "Specialty malts not more than 20%." You should simplify. You have a ton of crystal malt, which is going to make this incredibly sweet. The Vienna and Pilsner are fine (both base malts). I would dial it back to two crystal malts, and then maybe even cut back a little on the amounts. Up to you. You can safely set your crystal to 10% total, be fine, and then also control some sweetness through mash temp. The Melandolin and Biscuit are here in really small amounts, and a contribution is going to be subtle, if detectable at all. They may have the opposite effect you want and instead only muddle the beer's flavors. You can honestly just cut them entirely. If you want to keep some, pick one of the two (I would pick the biscuit) and double the amount to make it a little more present. Now, I said the vienna was fine, but I would either cut it or up the amount to replace some of the pilsner. You're treating it as a specialty malt, which is fine, but you already have a lot of specialty malts. With all this crystal, it's kind of moot. I'm not sure it'll hurt anything as is, but I don't know if it'll help. Good luck.

 

[rafaelpinto]

Thanks a lot for the help, fellow homebrewers!

Ive decided based on what you said to cut off biscuit and melanoidin, also decreasing the amount of vienna and carared on half.

I still got a lot of crystal malts, right? Im only concerned about the color (8 SRM sounds a little yellowish to me). So I might very well use Demu's idea of an ounce of dark grain (chocolate is ok?) at the end of boil (5 min?).

And again - thanks a lot!

 

[Barley_Bob]

I still got a lot of crystal malts, right? Im only concerned about the color (8 SRM sounds a little yellowish to me). So I might very well use Demu's idea of an ounce of dark grain (chocolate is ok?) at the end of boil (5 min?).

I would shoot for 10-15% crystal malts. You can definitely use just a little dark malt for color. If it's debittered, you can put it in for the full mash, and that could include midnight wheat or a debittered chocolate malt. I used debittered chocolate for color in an IPA. Alternatively, you can throw any dark malt into the mash for the last 15 minutes to extract color and character without so much astringency. Finally, you can replicate sinimar by crushing a small amount of a dark malt into powder. I haven't tried this, but some use it.

You don't want to add grains to your boil - only to the mash. Boiling grains is not advisable.

 

[rafaelpinto]

Im boiling this red ale right now. Decreased the amount of carared and vienna, cut off melanoidin and biscuit, and increased crystal 40 just a little bit. Added 1.5oz of chocolate malt just after clarification (I dread using it at the end of boiling due to adstringency).

I also decided to do First Wort Hopping with 1.2oz of Cascade.

Here is a pic

 

[JakeSparrow]

Looks good so far! This sounds like a nice, simple but tasty red ale. I like the single hopping with Cascade, very intrigued on what the Mandarin dry hopping will taste like.

 

[rafaelpinto]

I actually did not first wort hopped it, but "mash hopped" it.

 

[rafaelpinto]

Look how great it looks

 

[Demus]

Great color!


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[Barley_Bob]

Looks nice. Let us know how it tastes in a few weeks.

 

[doug293cz]

Beautiful color! For some reason, I'm partial to red beers. Can't wait for the tasting notes.

Could you post the complete final recipe (including mash schedule, boil/hop addition schedule, yeast used, etc)?

Brew on

 

[harry_the_face]

My favorite beer of all time is this red ale recipe:
8lb 2row
1.25 lb crystal 80L
. 5 lb crystal 120L
. 5 lb flaked barley

Wyeast 1272 American Ale II

. 5 Oz Amarillo @45
.25 Oz Simcoe @45
. 5 nugget @35
. 5 crystal @ 5
. 5 Amarillo @DH
Mash at 152 with 1.5quarts/lb grain.

This beer has the perfect color and a bunch of hop flavor and aroma. It is the perfect balance of hip and malt.

Can't wait to hear how this turns out!

 

[rafaelpinto]

The image I posted along with the wort picture says it all about the grain bill, color etc. Its a 5 gal recipe. Sorry for the metric system (or is it you that should be? haha), Im from Brazil. Mash temperature was kept around 151ºF.

As for the hops: 1oz of cascades aded to mash while recirculating (not to the boil kettle, I know I missed it, thats now how you first wort hop, it is actually something more like Mash Hopping), and 1oz of cascades added at 30, 15, 10 and 5. I will dry hop with 3.5oz of Mandarin. Lets see how it turns out.

(...)

I actually might have spoiled this beer... Since most of the grain used is pilsen I should have boiled for 90 minutes, but I forgot and only boiled for 65-70 minutes. Damn...

 

[Demus]

Don't worry about the boil time, you should be fine...


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[rafaelpinto]

Thats how the beer came out. Recipe changed a little:

 

[ddrrseio]

i'd start on the simpler side with a recipe in development. it's a lot easier to dial in 2-3 specialty malts than five, which can feel like whack-a-mole.

 

[rafaelpinto]

You are right.

 

[Demus]

Looks awesome!


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