Hop stand

[dmcclain]

I'm planning on giving this a shot, but I have a quick question about it...

If you chill to 180ish and then do your hop stand does that negatively affect the formation of cold break and/or beer clarity?

I guess I've never really heard a good answer as to what specific temp. & time the wort needs to hit in order for the cold break to form & coagulate.

I was wondering the same. I've always tried to chill the wort as quickly as possible to keep my beer clear. I would certainly give up a bit of clarity for great flavor.

 

[LovesIPA]

My third hopstand IPA was just kegged yesterday. I've tasted it and it's got great flavor and aroma but they definitely don't come out as clear as a boil-hopped beer does.

I can't pour one right now but I will try to remember to update this thread later today or tomorrow with a picture of a pint. I have a poker tournament tonight and things can get a little crazy around here.

 

[dmcclain]

The stainless steel teaball kept all the hops inside and only received a minuscule amount of hop debris in my first two pints from the keg, the rest was clear. When I finally finished the keg and cleaned it out all the hops were in the teaball still and no mess at the bottom of the keg.

This is a fantastic idea! I'd always wondered about hops in the keg to try and hang on to the aroma a little longer but worried about pellets running free and clogging the dip tube and the same thing with a bag. The teaball is perfect! I'm going to get one tonight and drop some simcoe into my IPA that just hit the co2 on Sunday.

 

[hogwash]

I've been using a hop stand with my flameout addition on my IPAs lately and have had great results. But to be fair, I have also been doing pretty massive dry hopping in the keg. So I usually just throw in my flameout hops, cut the burner then let it sit for 30 minutes before I start the chiller. FWIW, my clarity has not suffered doing it this way.

 

[Devin]

I haven't had any clarity issues with this procedure.

 

[Holy_Hops]

Apart from clarity, do you still get a good amount of cold break in the fully cooled wort after the hop stand?

 

[LovesIPA]

Apart from clarity, do you still get a good amount of cold break in the fully cooled wort after the hop stand?

I haven't noticed any less cold break in the kettle. But swirling hop debris and cold break look pretty similar to me.

Here's a pic, rather than have me describe how clear it is. It's hazy and definitely not as clear as boil-hopped brews I've made.

 

[Holy_Hops]

I haven't noticed any less cold break in the kettle. But swirling hop debris and cold break look pretty similar to me.

Here's a pic, rather than have me describe how clear it is. It's hazy and definitely not as clear as boil-hopped brews I've made.

Yum. That lacing looks delicious.

Thanks for the info. Gonna try this when I brew my El Dorado pale ale this weekend. Looking forward to the experiment.

 

[Devin]

Yes, I get good cold break. I use a mesh bag for the hops in my hop stand, so I don't have hop particles to deal with. I also use whirlfloc. I would get a picture of my latest IPA, but the keg kicked last night. It was a very clear beer.

 

[LovesIPA]

I'm about to keg another hopstand IPA.

 

[wyobrewer1]

I was under the impression that getting a good cold break is more about chilling rapidly (via a wort chiller) and not about how long after the boil it takes to get to pitching temp.

 

[hogwash]

I'll have to pay closer attention to the cold break on my next IPA. I went through a period where I was unsuccessfully trying to whirlpool before draining my kettle and everything would get mixed up so I couldn't really tell if I got a good one or not. A bit off topic but I've since given up on whirlpooling and, not coincidentally, the wort going into my fermenter is much more clear.

 

[Holy_Hops]

I've given up on whirlpooling, too. I usually just make a 6 gallon batch if I want five & then siphon the wort into the fermenter & leave the trub & hops behind.

 

[McCuckerson]

I did a hop stand a few months ago on an IPA I was doing. My main question is if the CO2 pushes out alot of the hop aroma early on. The beer smelled great with big hop notes for the first few days of fermentation. After that, the hop aroma really went away and never returned. How are you guys getting such great hop aroma from a hop stand?

Cooler ferm temps keep the CO2 from scrubbing away too much hop aroma. What temp are you fermenting at? and what yeast?

 

[Rake_Rocko]

So lets think about this. The thing that gives beer the hop aroma that we strive for are the volatile essential oils (humulene, myrcene, etc). So these are the chemicals that we don't want to "boil" off. However, I would venture to say that if you have steam coming off your wort (at high temps just below 212), then those oils are still leaving the wort since they are so volatile. This is why I cool my wort to the 140 range, then cover, and do my hop stand from there.

Now, once these oils get absorbed, they are in the wort. Theoretically, if the oils are what gives that hop aroma that we want, then CO2 shouldn't release those oils from the wort (turning to beer at this point) because they can only be "boiled" off. I am quite sure that many people will go against me on this one, but is there anyone out there that thinks like me?

 

[wyobrewer1]

Everything I've read says rack to secondary to get off the yeast since they absorb a lot of hop aroma. Never heard anything about CO2 and hop aroma. I guess it kind of make sense in that you don't dry hop until fermentation is mostly finished because you could essentially have the same effect as boiling and losing the hop aroma you are looking for.

 

[dogbar]

Theoretically, if the oils are what gives that hop aroma that we want, then CO2 shouldn't release those oils from the wort (turning to beer at this point) because they can only be "boiled" off. I am quite sure that many people will go against me on this one, but is there anyone out there that thinks like me?

If the only way for those oils to come out of solution was boiling then we wouldn't be able to smell them wafting out of the pint. We've probably all had the experience of sniffing the airlock on an IPA and being simultaneously delighted and bummed.

This is a great thread. The biggest issue for me with a hop stand would just be adding time to the brewday. Family responsibilities and all that.

 

[Rake_Rocko]

If the only way for those oils to come out of solution was boiling then we wouldn't be able to smell them wafting out of the pint.

I definitely understand your point but I don't think I explained what was in my head well enough and that's totally my fault.

I meant that yes we can obviously smell those aromas from the co2, but that's because the bubbles move up through the glass and pop at the top releasing those aromas. The co2 gets absorbed into the beer, and when a bottle is cracked it creates the carbonation bubbles.

I guess what I'm saying is don't you think that those oils stay with the wort/beer as long as its not at such a high temperature?

If you couldn't tell, I'm playing devils advocate. Also, I struggle to find this topic of hop aroma when I search for it. So I love this.

 

[bozizle]

I have done 2 IPA's with the hop stand and I am noticing a stronger bitterness coming through with less aroma and flavor of the late additions. I have dropped the temp to 165 stir them good and whirlpool for 20-25 mins..while I really like the bitterness more throughout the sip I feel like my citrus/fruity combos are mellowed out a lot using this technique. Any one else getting this as well?

 

[Gameface]

So, I'm making my first IPA of the year today and based on this thread I changed things up a little to include doing a hop-stand.

Would love a sanity check on my recipe and particularly my hopping schedule. I'm breaking open my bag of whole leaf Amarillo hops from hops direct for this guy. Never brewed with Amarillo before.
10.5G
Grain:
22lbs US 2-row
2lbs C-120
2lbs DME (no more room in the mash tun)

Mash at 152 60 min

4.5oz Amarillo 9.8% FWH 60min
2oz Amarillo 9.8% Flameout
3oz Amarillo 9.8% Hop Stand @ 180F
4oz Amarillo 9.8% Dry Hop 3 days

I changed my recipe so that there are NO hops added during the boil, only the first wort hops then the flameout and hop stand hops. I'm not going to be missing anything doing it this way, am I?

Thanks for any help, I greatly appreciate it.

 

[LovesIPA]

I have done 2 IPA's with the hop stand and I am noticing a stronger bitterness coming through with less aroma and flavor of the late additions. I have dropped the temp to 165 stir them good and whirlpool for 20-25 mins..while I really like the bitterness more throughout the sip I feel like my citrus/fruity combos are mellowed out a lot using this technique. Any one else getting this as well?

I've done a few hopstand batches now and I'm noticing the same thing. The aroma and flavor is there but it doesn't come across as well as a beer with a traditional hop schedule might. They seem to be a little more bitter than I expected as well.

 

[LovesIPA]

I changed my recipe so that there are NO hops added during the boil, only the first wort hops then the flameout and hop stand hops. I'm not going to be missing anything doing it this way, am I?

Nope, this is exactly what I do. What's nice is that you don't need to time the boil. Collect the wort and boil it down until you have the correct volume. For me it's about 5.6 gallons. Then add the hops and go find something to do.

 

[bozizle]

Nope, this is exactly what I do. What's nice is that you don't need to time the boil. Collect the wort and boil it down until you have the correct volume. For me it's about 5.6 gallons. Then add the hops and go find something to do.

So are you even doing a 60 min boil?

 

[LovesIPA]

At least 60 mins. Usually closer to 90. I collect ~7.5 gallons and boil down to ~5.6.

 

[ncbrewer]

I have done 2 IPA's with the hop stand and I am noticing a stronger bitterness coming through with less aroma and flavor of the late additions. I have dropped the temp to 165 stir them good and whirlpool for 20-25 mins..while I really like the bitterness more throughout the sip I feel like my citrus/fruity combos are mellowed out a lot using this technique. Any one else getting this as well?

I just tried a batch using a hop stand and really had high hopes (still in the fermenter, so I don't know yet). Your experience dampened my enthusiasm a little. Did you steep it covered or uncovered?

 

[Gameface]

Nope, this is exactly what I do. What's nice is that you don't need to time the boil. Collect the wort and boil it down until you have the correct volume. For me it's about 5.6 gallons. Then add the hops and go find something to do.

Thanks!

Flameout hops steeping now...

Adjusted my mill and way overshot my OG. Now I'm really happy I aimed high on IBUs when setting up my recipe.

 

[Rake_Rocko]

Did you steep it covered or uncovered?

This is the critical part of doing a hopstand. You have to COVER it, otherwise the volatile essential oils will be lost in the steam.

 

[Gameface]

This is the critical part of doing a hopstand. You have to COVER it, otherwise the volatile essential oils will be lost in the steam.

Dang, I did it wrong.

 

[cuda6pak]

Are people without pumps/recirc ability doing these hop stands by just cooling the worst down to 170ish, throwing the hops in, and letting it steep covered without stirring with a spoon?

Or is it essential to stir/whirlpool while doing a hopstand?

 

[wyobrewer1]

I stirred with my wort chiller. Kind of a pain but it seemed to work. I'd say theoretically it makes more sense to have the wort moving at least somewhat.