Hop Impact of First Wort Hopping

[The Pol]

Denny makes a good point on only moving the late addition hops. FWH, as I understand it from reading different articles, is this:

Move only late hop additions to FWH
Do not use this to replace BITTERING hops
Use about 30% of your total hop bill
If possible, use noble or low AA (finishing) hops, as there is increased utilization with a FWH.

Do not use this to replace bittering hops if you are looking for a hoppy beer, as stated, the perception of those IBUs, is different.

Somehow FWH went from moving only late addition hops, to it being a replacement for bittering hops, which is not what the texts I have studied made it out to be.

 

[The Pol]

Move the 15 to FWH and leave the others as they are.

As to why you drop the IBU even if they calc out higher, it's because you're drinking the beer, not measuring it! Due to chemical changes that happen in FWH, the bitterness doesn't drink like it's 10% more....it actually tases like it's about 2/3 less. At least to my tastebuds.

Agreed, in ProMash I changed the utilization factor for my FWH additions. It calculates the bitterness as a 20 minute addition. This is important for the reason Denny pointed out, we arent measuring it, we are drinking it. Who cares if it is 50 IBUs if it tastes like 35 IBUs. To formulate a recipe you need to know what will be percieved, becuase in tasting, perception IS reality.

 

[Droot]

<~~~~Look HERE FWH in the kettle while sparging.

I FWH most everything. I just put my fist hops (the bittering) in the boiler when or before I start to sparge. I made an Oatmeal stout that way with only those hops and it was awesome. Enough bitter for that beer, and a little aroma/flavor.

I do it all the time. I change nothing else. If I want 30, 20, 10 or 5 minute additions, I use em.

But I guess I am different.

It works for me.

I read that HBD post when it was written and have been using FWH ever since.

The last beer I brewed was a Fat Tire clone that did not call for FWH and I was trying to hit the nail on the head, so I didn't use FWH. It was odd not having the hops in at the actual start of the boil. A little easier to keep from boiling over and I scooped the hot break out like I did waaay back before I read about it in the HBD.

To each his own, but please try it once and see how the beer tastes.

One more thing.... Just take a whiff of the hops and first runnings in the kettle. Its the best! MMmmmm

David

 

[Denny]

If anyone has done an ALL FWH beer, then I believe that quite a few people would be interested in the results. If you do one, then let us know Leapdop.

I did an experiment splitting 10 gal. of wort. Half got only a Cascade FWH addition and the other half got the same amount of the same hops as only a 60 min. addition. A blind tasting was held. Results are at http://www.beertown.org/events/hbc/presentations/2008/DennyConn.pdf starting on pg. 29.

 

[user 22118]

I also find that by FWH my beer, it cuts down on my boil overs by providing a "bubbble cutter" if that makes sense. FWH is something I really like to do, but it isn't a bitter replacement. In fact, I don't use it to replace anything. It brings its own flavor and needs to be used as yet another choice in the arsenal!

 

[The Pol]

I mean, I need to clarify... it is your beer, you can replace the bittering hops with a FWH if you like.

I am pretty much referring to some complaints I have heard from people that claim thier FWH beers are not as bitter, when in fact they have replaced the bittering hops with a FWH. That is the reason for the lack of bittering perception. IBUs dont equal bitterness with a FWH as they do with a typical bittering addition.

 

[DeathBrewer]

Who says that it creates as many IBUs anyway? Just because promash or beersmith says something doesn't make it true. Whether it's "perceived" bitterness or real bitterness, who knows if it is even a correct assumption?

 

[The Pol]

Who says that it creates as many IBUs anyway? Just because promash or beersmith says something doesn't make it true. Whether it's "perceived" bitterness or real bitterness, who knows if it is even a correct assumption?

Apparently this can be measured, and has been, it is not a theoretical value, it is a physical thing.

 

[user 22118]

Yes, true. At the same time though Pol, some might have more ability to taste the bitterness in both FWH and MH. So then they make a "less" bitter beer to balance it for their taste and we taste it and think it is too sweet or malty. I don't get more bitter from a FWH, I gte a more floral character. But that is just me so, meh.

 

[DeathBrewer]

Apparently this can be measured, and has been, it is not a theoretical value, it is a physical thing.

Reading back, I see more references to this. Hrm...how do they measure it? I'd love to be able to tell my actual IBU count by taking a sample to the analytical lab.

 

[Aubie Stout]

I FWH every beer I make. In Beersmith, I set the FWH value to 20min. That's my "perceived" bitterness from that addition.

 

[chefchris]

What do you set the FWH bitterness adjustment to in BeerSmith? Mine is set to the default, 10%.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Hrm...how do they measure it?

Analytical methods & equipment such as GCMS. Still, I agree - what's in a number? BU value are somewhat arbitrary (with relation to FWH) as it's the perception that matters.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I mean, I need to clarify... it is your beer, you can replace the bittering hops with a FWH if you like.

I am pretty much referring to some complaints I have heard from people that claim thier FWH beers are not as bitter, when in fact they have replaced the bittering hops with a FWH. That is the reason for the lack of bittering perception. IBUs dont equal bitterness with a FWH as they do with a typical bittering addition.

It appears it may be a case where if you move the bittering hops to FWH...then the difference is more subtle (as indicated by Denny's experiment) but if you move the late additions to FWH then the difference may be more dramatic. The fact that there is a more dramatic difference seems intuitive but what that actual difference is...is not intuitive.

I haven't done controlled experiments but I just don't seem to get much aroma from FWH. So a typ hop schedule for me is FWH, bittering hops, and then aroma hops (say, 7 min. or less, often all @ flameout or later). For me, it's a real challenge to get sufficient hop aroma without 'over-extracting' hop flavor. So I'm always trying to get good hop aroma without a ton of hop flavor tagging along.

 

[Denny]

Who says that it creates as many IBUs anyway?

The lab that analyzed my beers.....

 

[The Pol]

The lab that analyzed my beers.....

There you go proving things with science! Here at HBT we prefer wild speculation and regurgitating information that we read in a paperback book a few years back! Thanks Denny.

 

[chefchris]

I work at a chemical manufactoring company and I'm good friends with the guy over the QC Lab. Might see if he could do some tests for me. What exactly does he look for when determining the IBUs?

 

[Denny]

If anyone is interested in having beers tested, contact Scott Bruslind at Analysis Laboratory in Lebanon, OR. He does analysis for several large breweries, but is dedicated to helping homebrewers. He especially likes to do analyses for club experiments. All he usually asks for is a contribution to the HBD server fund.

 

[DeathBrewer]

If anyone is interested in having beers tested, contact Scott Bruslind at Analysis Laboratory in Lebanon, OR. He does analysis for several large breweries, but is dedicated to helping homebrewers. He especially likes to do analyses for club experiments. All he usually asks for is a contribution to the HBD server fund.

Can he analyze alpha acid content in hops??? Cuz I have 11 plants this year.

 

[Denny]

Can he analyze alpha acid content in hops??? Cuz I have 11 plants this year.

I don't know if he can or not.....you should contact him.

 

[DeathBrewer]

I will do that. Danke!

 

[DaBills]

I did an experiment splitting 10 gal. of wort. Half got only a Cascade FWH addition and the other half got the same amount of the same hops as only a 60 min. addition. A blind tasting was held. Results are at http://www.beertown.org/events/hbc/presentations/2008/DennyConn.pdf starting on pg. 29.

I'm interested in this but the link is broken. Probably because it's from 2009

 

[Denny]

My apologies....try this one...

http://www.ahaconference.org/wp-content/uploads/presentations/2008/DennyConn.pdf

 

[DaBills]

You know what I found it on another thread and read it. Also read about decoction. Very nice write up, thanks.