Hop bittering vs Hop Flavor; Beers to try?

[rifraf]

When someone says that the hops you add at the beginning give the beer bitterness to balance the sweetness of the malt, and the late hops add hop flavor and aroma, what is the difference?

In my mind, the hop flavor itself is bitter. Is there a commercial/craft beer I could try that has little to no early hop addition but late hop additions and then one that has early and late so I can taste the difference?

I'm having difficulty picking out the bitter flavor separate from the floral flavor of hops. Is this a stupid question because their isn't a difference?

 

[LTownLiquorPig]

+1. I'm struggling with wrapping my mind around how different hops at different times do different things to different beers.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

i suggest some basic reading about beer and brewing. 'the complete joy.....' by papazian and 'how to brew' by palmer both go into this. you can find the first edition of 'how to brew' online for free at howtobrew.com, although i do recommend the third edition because the first has some dated material that palmer has since changed in the later edition.

 

[frazier]

The problem with your plan is that hop aroma and flavor fade over time. I think it unlikely that you can find a commercial beer with only late hop additions; it would be tough for them to brew, condition, store, ship, and serve a consistent product.

In Chicago, there are a number of brewpubs where you can get fresh beers. Piece, Revolution, and Goose Island off the top of my head. Go do some research! Have a conversation with the bartender, or the cute waitress, or both. Get thee to a pubbery!

 

[mrdauber64]

for me I can tell the difference by drinking a Pale Ale compared to an IPA. With a pale ale you will notice more flavor hops and less bitterness, with an IPA you will get more sharp bitterness along with the flavor and hop aroma. Try buying a specific brand of pale ale and compare it to their IPA. You should notice a big difference in the bitterness.

 

[frazier]

^^ Yes, for example SNPA vs. Torpedo would be one way to try it.

 

[ArcaneXor]

I think some of the Firestone Walker pale ale-type beers derive much of their character from Whirlpool additions.

 

[chfrey3]

I also think a decent example of this is Sweetwater's 420(an extra pale ale, and one of my favorite session beers) vs. their IPA. The 420 has great hop flavor, fresh and citrusy, with slight bitterness while you can notice more hop bitterness in the IPA. Sweetwater is out of Atlanta but I'm not sure if they distribute much outside of the southeast.

 

[rifraf]

i suggest some basic reading about beer and brewing. 'the complete joy.....' by papazian and 'how to brew' by palmer both go into this. you can find the first edition of 'how to brew' online for free at howtobrew.com, although i do recommend the third edition because the first has some dated material that palmer has since changed in the later edition.

Thanks (again) Nordeast. Both books are in the mail so should have that soon As to everyone else, thanks for the beer suggestions, I know my local beer store has Sierra Nevada and Sweetwater, and I love the Goose Island breweries definitely need to go do some research

 

[Zak]

...In Chicago, there are a number of brewpubs where you can get fresh beers. Piece, Revolution, and Goose Island off the top of my head. Go do some research! Have a conversation with the bartender, or the cute waitress, or both. Get thee to a pubbery!

I can't speak for the other two, but from experience everyone I've ever spoken with at Goose Island were very knowledgeable.

ps, I'm stealing that last sentance for my signature.

 

[BrewKnurd]

I'm having difficulty picking out the bitter flavor separate from the floral flavor of hops. Is this a stupid question because their isn't a difference?

If you're identifying floral notes, that's the flavor part. The bitterness is really the taste component, which is different from the flavor component, but rather than go into all of that, maybe the following example will help.

Think about drinking black coffee, or even better, just chewing on a coffee bean. In addition to roasted flavors, you get a strong perception of bitterness, that sharpness that makes you go "whew, that's got some kick". Now, add some sugar and cream to your coffee. Those roasted FLAVORS are still there, but much of the bitterness is still there.

Another example, using sour tastes. Bite a lemon. Oi. You can taste the lemon flavor, and lots and lots of sourness. Now, make lemonade out of it. You still know it came from lemons because of the lemon flavors. But the sourness is muted by the sugar you added.

Same way with hops. Hops take on all kinds of flavors, citrus, floral, spicy, piney, etc. They also have bitterness, and how you use them is the difference between just biting a lemon and drinking lemonade.

For me, the bitterness of the hops is almost a feeling. Its that thing that makes me say "ooh, that's a kick in the teeth (in a good way)" or not. There can be lots of flavors that go along with either end of that spectrum.

 

[Crito]

for me, I do not like strong bitterness.

I like the flavor more so.

Some hops are less bitter (more flavor) then others.

You have to read the packet before you buy it.

 

[Doomsday]

I wish I could find "Hop Juice" from left coast brewing up here in Alaska. Its like biting into a hop, so fresh and crisp and bitter..... THATS what I like. Everything that has to do with the hop itself.

 

[BOBrob]

Check out "deathbrewer's" sticky at the top of this forum; "recipe formulation & ingredient descriptions". He does a very good job of describing which hops are best used and when to use them. After that make a few batches use different hops & schedules, increase or decrease the amounts to taste. Best way to learn the different flavors & uses in my opinion. This approach helped me a lot. I now mess up fewer brews. Cheers

 

[david_42]

Bitters are a good way to separate bittering from hoppy. They tend to have little or no hop aroma. A couple commercial examples:

Fuller’s ESB (Extra Special Bitter)
Goose Island Honkers Ale
Redhook ESB

 

[rifraf]

Think about drinking black coffee, or even better, just chewing on a coffee bean. In addition to roasted flavors, you get a strong perception of bitterness, that sharpness that makes you go "whew, that's got some kick". Now, add some sugar and cream to your coffee. Those roasted FLAVORS are still there, but much of the bitterness is still there.

Another example, using sour tastes. Bite a lemon. Oi. You can taste the lemon flavor, and lots and lots of sourness. Now, make lemonade out of it. You still know it came from lemons because of the lemon flavors. But the sourness is muted by the sugar you added.

Same way with hops. Hops take on all kinds of flavors, citrus, floral, spicy, piney, etc. They also have bitterness, and how you use them is the difference between just biting a lemon and drinking lemonade.

"What alcoholics refer to as, a moment of clarity."

This is awesome thanks. I'm going to get a Goose Island Honker's Ale and an IPA and think about this....thanks!