Honest opinions on this "recipe"

[Andy Bullock]

This will be my first try at putting something together that I THINK will be tasty. This is supposed to be a "juicy/fruity" ale with fairly low bitterness (NEIPA even though that isn't an IPA). I've basically taken some things from different ale and NEIPA recipes that I think fit my likes about a brew. This is a half mash BIAB/extract wingjob, but I was able to plug it all into BrewTarget and get an idea of where it will end up. Is there anything I need to be thinking about with this concoction or anything you would worry about if you were me? As always, thanks for all the help and knowledge!


OG 1.071 sg
FG 1.019 sg
ABV 7.2%
Bitterness 29.4 IBU (This seems a little low to me with 4 ounces going in at flameout)
Color 7.1 srm

*Fermentables*

Name Type Amount
NB Golden Malt LME Extract 6 lbs
2 row malt Grain 2.5 lbs
Oats, Flaked Grain 2 lbs
Briess Wheat DMW Dry Extract 1 lb
Briess Carapils Grain .5 lb

*Hops*

Name Alpha Amount Use Time Form IBU
Cascade 6.9% 2oz Boil 10.000 min Pellet 14.1
Challenger 7.5% 2oz Boil 10.000 min Pellet 15.3
Azzaca 10.1% 2oz Flameout 0.000 s Pellet 0.0
Huell Melon 6.1% 2oz Flameout 0.000 s Pellet 0.0
Azzaca 10.1% 2oz Dry Hop 0.000 s Pellet 0.0
Huell Melon 6.1% 2oz Dry Hop 0.000 s Pellet 0.0

*Yeast*

Name Type Form Amount
Imperial A38 Juice Ale Liquid 5.24 fl oz (155mL)

 

[Dgallo]

This will be my first try at putting something together that I THINK will be tasty. This is supposed to be a "juicy/fruity" ale with fairly low bitterness (NEIPA even though that isn't an IPA). I've basically taken some things from different ale and NEIPA recipes that I think fit my likes about a brew. This is a half mash BIAB/extract wingjob, but I was able to plug it all into BrewTarget and get an idea of where it will end up. Is there anything I need to be thinking about with this concoction or anything you would worry about if you were me? As always, thanks for all the help and knowledge!


OG 1.071 sg
FG 1.019 sg
ABV 7.2%
Bitterness 29.4 IBU (This seems a little low to me with 4 ounces going in at flameout)
Color 7.1 srm

*Fermentables*

Name Type Amount
NB Golden Malt LME Extract 6 lbs
2 row malt Grain 2.5 lbs
Oats, Flaked Grain 2 lbs
Briess Wheat DMW Dry Extract 1 lb
Briess Carapils Grain .5 lb

*Hops*

Name Alpha Amount Use Time Form IBU
Cascade 6.9% 2oz Boil 10.000 min Pellet 14.1
Challenger 7.5% 2oz Boil 10.000 min Pellet 15.3
Azzaca 10.1% 2oz Flameout 0.000 s Pellet 0.0
Huell Melon 6.1% 2oz Flameout 0.000 s Pellet 0.0
Azzaca 10.1% 2oz Dry Hop 0.000 s Pellet 0.0
Huell Melon 6.1% 2oz Dry Hop 0.000 s Pellet 0.0

*Yeast*

Name Type Form Amount
Imperial A38 Juice Ale Liquid 5.24 fl oz (155mL)

I don’t see anything wrong with it. Just wondering why challenger at 20 mins? If I recall it’s quite a spicy hop. I would think with the other hops youre using(huell and Azacca) your looking for pineapple & melon notes. If I’m corrected, I’d use something fruitier or more dank. In my experience spicy hops take away from the fruit notes in other hops

 

[Andy Bullock]

I don’t see anything wrong with it. Just wondering why challenger at 20 mins? If I recall it’s quite a spicy hop. I would think with the other hopsyoures using(huell and Azacca) your lookinh from pineapple & melon notes. If I’m corrected, I’d use something fruitier or more dank. In my experience spicy hops take away from the fruit notes in other hops

This is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. The reason for the challenger is simply because I got 8oz of them for free and I don't know what to use them in... Guess I could throw them in the freezer and use them for something else - supposedly have kind of a cedar characteristic that might be good in a darker beer or something..?

 

[Dgallo]

This is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. The reason for the challenger is simply because I got 8oz of them for free and I don't know what to use them in... Guess I could throw them in the freezer and use them for something else - supposedly have kind of a cedar characteristic that might be good in a darker beer or something..?

Lagers or pilsners or ESB come to mind when I think challenger but I’ve also never used them

 

[Andy Bullock]

Lagers or pilsners or ESB come to mind when I think challenger but I’ve also never used them

So what would you suggest for some more bittering hops? Those are what I have on hand. Would you just go 4oz cascade?

 

[Dgallo]

So what would you suggest for some more bittering hops? Those are what I have on hand. Would you just go 4oz cascade?

I mean it really depends on what you’re aiming for. If you’re lookibg for a NEIPA style id use both 2oz of challenger at about 30 mins and move the cascade to to flame out. And use half of your flame out hops as planned and the other half in a whirlpool or dryhop. If You want a slightly more bitter beer move the challenger to 60. And keep the rest the same. It’s hard to give solid advice since I don’t know your preference in styles

 

[kh54s10]

The 2 row needs to be mashed not steeped. An hour at about 150 degrees would be good.

I don't have the time to run it through a calculator, but 4 ounces at 10 minutes seems like it would give you more than 29.4 IBU. There is some disagreement about how much bitterness you get with whirlpool hop additions. That would be at 170 degrees or less. At flameout you will get added bitterness.

What program are you using for your calculations?

 

[Andy Bullock]

I mean it really depends on what you’re aiming for. If you’re lookibg for a NEIPA style id use both 2oz of challenger at about 30 mins and move the cascade to to flame out. And use half of your flame out hops as planned and the other half in a whirlpool or dryhop. If You want a slightly more bitter beer move the challenger to 60. And keep the rest the same. It’s hard to give solid advice since I don’t know your preference in styles

I don't care if it's a "hazy" or not - but I like the hop forward fruity flavors of the NEIPA style (which I've seen you know how to make). I'm only planning on a 30 minute boil after the BIAB mash is done, but I don't want a real piney or grassy taste to stand out. Subtle would be good, but not overpowering like some of the heavier IPAs.

 

[Andy Bullock]

The 2 row needs to be mashed not steeped. An hour at about 150 degrees would be good.

I don't have the time to run it through a calculator, but 4 ounces at 10 minutes seems like it would give you more than 29.4 IBU. There is some disagreement about how much bitterness you get with whirlpool hop additions. That would be at 170 degrees or less. At flameout you will get added bitterness.

What program are you using for your calculations?

The plan is to "mash" (BIAB) all of the grains for this one - oats, carapils, and 2 row - then add that to my kettle with the 6lbs of LME and wheat DME for a roughly 30 minute boil so I can get some of the hop acids broke down.

The program I'm using is called "BrewTarget" - something I found online for free that you install on a windows computer.

 

[kh54s10]

The plan is to "mash" (BIAB) all of the grains for this one - oats, carapils, and 2 row - then add that to my kettle with the 6lbs of LME and wheat DME for a roughly 30 minute boil so I can get some of the hop acids broke down.

The program I'm using is called "BrewTarget" - something I found online for free that you install on a windows computer.

30 minute boil. Maybe for the bitterness, with a 60 minute boil it would be higher. Why not go with more base grain and wheat malt and do all grain BIAB?

 

[Andy Bullock]

30 minute boil. Maybe for the bitterness, with a 60 minute boil it would be higher. Why not go with more base grain and wheat malt and do all grain BIAB?

Honestly, because I have everything listed above already and wouldn't have to buy anything else

It's Christmas time, some of us are brewin' on a budget

 

[kh54s10]

Honestly, because I have everything listed above already and wouldn't have to buy anything else

It's Christmas time, some of us are brewin' on a budget

I get it that you have the ingredients and that fits your immediate budget. But all grain is less expensive than extract.

 

[Andy Bullock]

I get it that you have the ingredients and that fits your immediate budget. But all grain is less expensive than extract.

I would definitely like to get to all grain eventually, I’ve still got a lot to learn though. Still working on getting my brew day process down. Brew day #3 will be tomorrow so I’m still really green.

 

[kh54s10]

I would definitely like to get to all grain eventually, I’ve still got a lot to learn though. Still working on getting my brew day process down. Brew day #3 will be tomorrow so I’m still really green.

Cool, I remember when I was in a similar place. I was reading everything and planning the next step. I did 4 extract recipes then 4 partial mash recipes while accumulating the equipment to set up a 3 vessel all grain rig. It took a few months to get enough to start and a couple years to get it tweaked. After 8+ years I am now looking into electric. Debating 120v vs 240v and 3 vessel herms or a recirculating BIAB.

 

[Dgallo]

Cool, I remember when I was in a similar place. I was reading everything and planning the next step. I did 4 extract recipes then 4 partial mash recipes while accumulating the equipment to set up a 3 vessel all grain rig. It took a few months to get enough to start and a couple years to get it tweaked. After 8+ years I am now looking into electric. Debating 120v vs 240v and 3 vessel herms or a recirculating BIAB.

I love that there are so many different ways to make great beer. I have some of the most simplistic all grain equipment with an igloo cooler as mash Tun, turkey propane burner and kettle, and a few large mouth carboy for fermenters. Does me very well

 

[Tyler B]

That seems like a lot of oats. I couldn't remember how much is too much so I did a quick search and found this article about brewing with oats.

I used 8% oats in a double IPA that I liked a lot but I think they were noticeable both in mouthfeel and flavor. If I convert your recipe to all grain you'd be around 14.7 lbs of grains which means your 2 lbs of oats would be about 13. 6% of the grain bill. I'd be tempted to lower the amount, but I'd also really like to try a beer with that many oats.

 

[Andy Bullock]

That seems like a lot of oats. I couldn't remember how much is too much so I did a quick search and found this article about brewing with oats.

I used 8% oats in a double IPA that I liked a lot but I think they were noticeable both in mouthfeel and flavor. If I convert your recipe to all grain you'd be around 14.7 lbs of grains which means your 2 lbs of oats would be about 13. 6% of the grain bill. I'd be tempted to lower the amount, but I'd also really like to try a beer with that many oats.

That’s a good article, thanks for sharing! I might bring them down a little like you mentioned.

 

[Andy Bullock]

Alright.. Since I wrote this post I went back to the drawing board. What do ya'll think about something like this? (5 gallon batch *BIAB* and a little LME/DME to help with my limited skill set)

Fermentables:
5lbs Briess Pilsen
2.5lbs 2Row
3.15 Gold Malt LME
20oz rolled/flaked oats
1lb Briess Carapils
1lb Bavarian Wheat DME
1lb Corn Sugar

Hop schedule:
2oz Huell Melon - Flameout
2oz Azacca - Flameout
1oz Citra - 170 degrees
1oz Amarillo - 170 degrees
1oz Heull Melon - Active Fermentation
1oz Azacca - Active Fermentation
1oz Citra - 1 week after ferment
1oz Amarillo - 1 week after ferment
1oz Huell Melon - 3 days before bottle/keg
1oz Azacca - 3 days before bottle/keg

 

[brew703]

I've used 2 lb's of Oats in a NEIPA before (about three times) and I actually like it. I see no issues with using 2 lbs.

As for hops, I see no use adding a whirlpool and a flameout addition. Those will go in roughly a couple minutes apart, at least for me. Just move your FO to the WP.

I always add about 25-30 IBU's worth of Warrior or Magnum at 60 or even FWH (first wort hop).
I've used all the hops you noted and like them all. Azacca, El Dorado, Citra, and Mosaic are my go to's for NEIPA's. Although never used Amarillo in a NEIPA style.

 

[Andy Bullock]

I've used 2 lb's of Oats in a NEIPA before (about three times) and I actually like it. I see no issues with using 2 lbs.

As for hops, I see no use adding a whirlpool and a flameout addition. Those will go in roughly a couple minutes apart, at least for me. Just move your FO to the WP.

I always add about 25-30 IBU's worth of Warrior or Magnum at 60 or even FWH (first wort hop).
I've used all the hops you noted and like them all. Azacca, El Dorado, Citra, and Mosaic are my go to's for NEIPA's. Although never used Amarillo in a NEIPA style.

What about the heull melon? I'm excited to see what flavor I get out of that one. I like your profile pic too, we have a dachsund that's my little brewin buddy!

 

[brew703]

What about the heull melon? I'm excited to see what flavor I get out of that one. I like your profile pic too, we have a dachsund that's my little brewin buddy!

For me Huell Melon provides a Melon type profile but I find it's kinda mild. I use it in blondes and also an Australian sparkling ale i brewed. But i do like it.
Yeah my dachshund stays outside w me when I brew. She's addicted to the spent grains so I have to be careful how much she eats. It's funny the previous dachshund I had wanted nothing to do w the grains.

 

[brew703]

When I say melon more on the strawberry side. I don't really get much honeydew.

 

[Andy Bullock]

For me Huell Melon provides a Melon type profile but I find it's kinda mild. I use it in blondes and also an Australian sparkling ale i brewed. But i do like it.
Yeah my dachshund stays outside w me when I brew. She's addicted to the spent grains so I have to be careful how much she eats. It's funny the previous dachshund I had wanted nothing to do w the grains.

Ours will dig in on anything you're cutting on the counter.. for some reason he loves raw potatoes and raw veggies like broccoli and asparagus stems. We also have a blue heeler inside and she just turned a year old, so any scraps on the floor are pretty much vacuumed up

 

[brew703]

Pretty much same thing here. I don't recall any type of food she has turned down. I don't give her "people" food but she tries her best to get some. I do give her carrots as her treats. She loves beer. She whines until I or my wife pours her some.
Let's us know how your brew turns out.
I'll be brewing a Juicy pale ale this weekend.

 

[kh54s10]

What about the heull melon? I'm excited to see what flavor I get out of that one. I like your profile pic too, we have a dachsund that's my little brewin buddy!

If you want to find out what flavor you get from a hop you will need to use it either alone or with a neutral type hop. You will only find out what it does in combination with those other hops. The flavor of some hops is powerful enough to totally mask milder ones.

 

[Tyler B]

1/4 of your grain bill (wheat, oats, carapils) all contribute to mouthfeel and head retention so it might be silky tasting/feeling. Not necessarily a bad thing if that's what you're after... I personally like that in my beers. It might counteract any potential dryness from the corn sugar too.

The hops seemed like a lot to me, but after looking at a few recipes (Pliny, heady topper, etc), it seems reasonable. I don't know enough about hops to tell what combinations work best, but it sounds like it will smell amazing! If it was me, I'd move some to the beginning or middle of the boil to bring up the IBUs a little bit to match the beer. Also, why the active fermentation hops? I've never tried that before. How does that work?

I tried a "0 IBU" beer recently that was entirely dry hopped. It was good but just a bit too small of a beer for me. Yours sounds more my speed. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Tyler B]

Hey Andy, not sure if youve brewed this yet, but I just read this article and it reminded me of your recipe...

https://vinepair.com/articles/hazy-ipa-homebrew-tips/

There is some stuff about what causes haze, when to add hops, and what yeast to use that might be relevant to what you're trying to achieve. Best of luck!