Homemade PBW, surfactant ideas?

[evandena]

I have been using 1 part oxyclean free to 2 parts seventh generation dish washing powder.
Cleans everything and leaves no mineral deposits if I forget about it for a couple days.
Flush everything with fresh water.
Works on glass, stainless, plastic... Everything.
It's easy and cheap.

How's the foaming? I'm looking for a CIP solution for my conical with minimum foaming.

 

[pilzner]

It foams, but I fill it to the top and just leave it overnight to clean the deposits. In the morning I dump, flush with clean water and don't even need to brush.

 

[testingapril]

I know this thread is a little old, but I was reading it because I am thinking about building my own PBW but without using Oxyclean free. Mainly because I don't like the foaming. I'm thinking of getting sodium percarbonate from this site: http://www.soapgoods.com/product_info.php?products_id=1001 . They also have EDTA, TSP substitute should be fairly easy to find locally. And it looks like that same site has Sodium Laurel Sulfate which is the same as SDS.

61% Sodium percarbonate/carbonate - main cleaning agent
30% TSP/90 (Sodium Metasilicate) - lowers pH/caustic
5% EDTA - chelator
4% SDS/SLS - surfactant

I don't necessarily need the chelator as I've never had the spotting problems, but I would like to have a relatively low foaming surfactant in the solution.

I'm getting close, and so far cost is under $2/lb which is a great price.

Anyone know where to get sodium metasilacate cheap/bulk?

Would SLS possibly foam too much? It is used in household soaps for it's ability to lather.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

"Where" in "Atlanta" are you located?

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Look here:
https://www.google.com/#q=Sodium+Metasilicate+in+Atlanta,+Ga.

And here:

http://www.chemnet.com/ChinaSuppliers/8081/SODIUM-METASILICATE-ANHYDROUS--253883.html

Several places listed in Atlanta, but not knowing "where" in the ATL. you are located, I couldn't narrow it down for ya'.........

You're welcome...........

 

[testingapril]

Look here:
https://www.google.com/#q=Sodium+Metasilicate+in+Atlanta,+Ga.

And here:

http://www.chemnet.com/ChinaSuppliers/8081/SODIUM-METASILICATE-ANHYDROUS--253883.html

Several places listed in Atlanta, but not knowing "where" in the ATL. you are located, I couldn't narrow it down for ya'.........

You're welcome...........

Sorry, I thought I had subscribed to this thread, but I didn't. I'm west of ATL.

 

[testingapril]

I know this thread is a little old, but I was reading it because I am thinking about building my own PBW but without using Oxyclean free. Mainly because I don't like the foaming. I'm thinking of getting sodium percarbonate from this site: http://www.soapgoods.com/product_info.php?products_id=1001 . They also have EDTA, TSP substitute should be fairly easy to find locally. And it looks like that same site has Sodium Laurel Sulfate which is the same as SDS.

61% Sodium percarbonate/carbonate - main cleaning agent
30% TSP/90 (Sodium Metasilicate) - lowers pH/caustic
5% EDTA - chelator
4% SDS/SLS - surfactant

I don't necessarily need the chelator as I've never had the spotting problems, but I would like to have a relatively low foaming surfactant in the solution.

I'm getting close, and so far cost is under $2/lb which is a great price.

Anyone know where to get sodium metasilacate cheap/bulk?

Would SLS possibly foam too much? It is used in household soaps for it's ability to lather.

Here is this formula priced out per pound:

61% Sodium percarbonate - $1.08
30% TSP/90 - $1.5
5% EDTA - $1.18
4% SLS - $0.32

Total - $4.08/pound plus shipping/tax

I'm sure it would be pretty effective, but once you include shipping it's kinda pricey. At least as much as buying PBW and certainly more so than buying PBW in bulk.

If you could live without the EDTA (chelator) which I can, that brings the price under $3/pound, and maybe with shipping it wouldn't be too bad. But at $5/pound or less for PBW, which is a proven, tested, and approved product, it's probably just worth buying PBW and figuring out ways to use less of it.

 

[apraetor]

I know this thread is a little old, but I was reading it because I am thinking about building my own PBW but without using Oxyclean free. Mainly because I don't like the foaming. I'm thinking of getting sodium percarbonate from this site: http://www.soapgoods.com/product_info.php?products_id=1001 . They also have EDTA, TSP substitute should be fairly easy to find locally. And it looks like that same site has Sodium Laurel Sulfate which is the same as SDS.

61% Sodium percarbonate/carbonate - main cleaning agent
30% TSP/90 (Sodium Metasilicate) - lowers pH/caustic
5% EDTA - chelator
4% SDS/SLS - surfactant

I don't necessarily need the chelator as I've never had the spotting problems, but I would like to have a relatively low foaming surfactant in the solution.

I'm getting close, and so far cost is under $2/lb which is a great price.

Anyone know where to get sodium metasilacate cheap/bulk?

Would SLS possibly foam too much? It is used in household soaps for it's ability to lather.

Red Devil TSP/90 is (according to the MSDS) 100% sodium metasilicate. I get the 4 lb bags for $15 on Amazon. Been using it for 3 years so far in my homebrew PBW and I've never had an issue. I mix large batches, as I tend to use PBW in the dishwasher, too. Great for saponifying large amounts of grease as well as softening and removing hard protein deposits.

 

[BlkWater_brewer]

For all the time that goes into finding a PBW substitute, is it really worth it? I get PBW for $3.10 a pound thru a local nano-brewery. ($155.00 for 50 lbs.) Which I ended up working at. No mess, no fuss. I have tried the substitute version but in reality you use more of the oxy based version than the real thing.

 

[UnBrewsual]

Here is what I have been using. Stolen from another post or forum, I don't recall.

96oz Oxygen Cleaner (I found a dye free at Dollar General)
4lb TSP
40oz Seventh Generation Dry Automatic Dishwasher soap

 

[indolent]

Here is what I have been using. Stolen from another post or forum, I don't recall.

96oz Oxygen Cleaner (I found a dye free at Dollar General)
4lb TSP
40oz Seventh Generation Dry Automatic Dishwasher soap

That's the same ratio I used. Here's a more thorough thread on the topic for those interested:

For all the time that goes into finding a PBW substitute, is it really worth it? I get PBW for $3.10 a pound thru a local nano-brewery. ($155.00 for 50 lbs.) Which I ended up working at. No mess, no fuss. I have tried the substitute version but in reality you use more of the oxy based version than the real thing.

It doesn't take much time to source three ingredients, and even then, not everyone has the option to get it as cheap as you and/or wants to buy 50 lbs of it at a time. The homebrew version of it ended up costing me just under $2/lb and it works quite well.

 

[MagicMatt]

Wow HBT Admins, way to dredge up a 4 year old thread in an email. WTF.

 

[msherretz]

The recipe is 96oz tub of Sun Oxygen Cleaner (contains a mixture of BaCarbonate and NaPercarbonate) + 4# Red Devil TSP (NaMetasilicate) + 45oz box of Seventh Generation Dishwasher Detergent (with all the Chelating and surfactant agents you need). It works just the same as PBW but the grains are not as large so it makes some dust when mixing the chemicals.

 

[theotherbuzzy]

Wow HBT Admins, way to dredge up a 4 year old thread in an email. WTF.

Maybe they meant to post about this thread, which is only two years old and still active (with many pages of analysis and tests). For anyone new to this thread, I'd highly recommend reading the entire thread - lots of good info.

 

[musicbymark]

correct. TSP contains phosphates which are not good for the environment and are being replaced

I think the original TSP contained true TriSodiumPhosphate, but now the boxes I buy say "no phosphates"! :-$

 

[indolent]

Wow HBT Admins, way to dredge up a 4 year old thread in an email. WTF.

That's what I was thinking as well, but based on the time stamps, the first reply to the thread yesterday was 2 hours before I received the email.

I know nothing about email lists, but I wouldn't think the sending would be staggered over that much time that someone would get the email and reply to the thread 2 hours before others get it.

It almost looks to me like the links in the email were auto generated based on recent thread activity.