Homemade PBW Recipe

[chawn]

I use 2 parts Oxyclean Free, 1 part sodium metasilicate, and 1.3 oz per pound citric acid (I have hard water). It works as well for me.

 

[jtratcliff]

I can get Oxiclean easily enough, but the Versatile Free is double the price that Sun Oxygen Cleaner used to be at Walmart. Oxi Versatile Free is $6.98 /3 lbs right now, for instance. Sun was less than that for 6lb!

If I can't locate another cheap source for Sun, I'll probably go for the 10lb bags of pure Sodium Percarbonate off e-bay for $23 shipped. Mix with Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda to get my "Oxiclean" then TSP-90 & 7th Gen for the full DIY PBW.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Anybody have an alternate cheap source for Sun Oxygen cleaner? Wally World near me doesn't seem to carry it anymore and it's not available to order on-line from them either... Might have to buy some pure Sodium Percarbonate in bulk and mix up my own with Arm & Hammer Washing soda (Sodium Carbonate)...

LA’s Totally Awesome® Power Oxygen Base Cleaner is $1/lb at dollar tree but it seems to have other crap in it and I can't find any info on what the Percarbonate percentage is anyway. Got some for the laundry but won't use for cleaning my gear...

Should have a version of oxy at the dollar store. It has been a while since I visited, so it may not be the free type. The totally awesome is great for general purpose cleaning, but I dont think I would use it for brewing.

 

[jtratcliff]

Should have a version of oxy at the dollar store.

I checked Dollar Tree (where I got the LA's Totally Awesome Oxi) and 99c Only but found nothing useful... 99c Only didn't have any plain old oxi, only laundry soap w/ oxi.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Do you have a "Family Dollar " store there?

That's where I buy mine...........4 bucks a tub, unscented.

Comes from the same factory as the high dollar brands, so sayeth the purchaser @ Family Dollar.

 

[phug]

I called the canada and Latin America salesperson at red-devil today to find out if any of their customers in canada purchase tsp-90 from them. Her initial response was 99.9% sure that they didn't. She's going to pull some reports and get me some info on ordering/ shipping. The end result may be no homemade pbw for me. I'll just have to buy re real stuff

 

[actionjackson905]

I called the canada and Latin America salesperson at red-devil today to find out if any of their customers in canada purchase tsp-90 from them. Her initial response was 99.9% sure that they didn't. She's going to pull some reports and get me some info on ordering/ shipping. The end result may be no homemade pbw for me. I'll just have to buy re real stuff

Can I ask why you are stuck on Red Devil? As regular TSP is readily available in Canada. I have been using a 70-30% mix of Oxy Clean Free Advanced (green lid) and TSP with amazing results. To the point I won't go back to PBW. The big bonus I have noticed is that I even use less powder now with the same results.

 

[phug]

Because trisodium phosphate isn't the the ingredient found in pbw. Sodium meta silicate is, which in red devil tsp90

Trisodium phosphate I can find everywhere

 

[jtratcliff]

Red Devil TSP-90 is on Amazon.ca... E-bay has sodium metasilicate from a few sellers that look like they ship internationally, although in some cases the shipping costs more than the product...

As mentioned, you could probably just use straight TSP... Since Sodium Metasilicate (TSP-90) is supposed to be a phosphate free TSP substitute...

 

[jtratcliff]

Do you have a "Family Dollar " store there?

There are some around... not terribly close by, though. I'll see if can swing by one sometime.

How big is the tub? The Sun Cleaner at Walmart used to be 6lbs for $5ish

 

[actionjackson905]

Because trisodium phosphate isn't the the ingredient found in pbw. Sodium meta silicate is, which in red devil tsp90

Trisodium phosphate I can find everywhere

Red Devil TSP-90 is on Amazon.ca... E-bay has sodium metasilicate from a few sellers that look like they ship internationally, although in some cases the shipping costs more than the product...

As mentioned, you could probably just use straight TSP... Since Sodium Metasilicate (TSP-90) is supposed to be a phosphate free TSP substitute...

That's where I was going. PBW probably uses Sodium Metasilicate due to the environmental restrictions in some states/provinces. TSP would be the preferred additive in my humble opinion.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Approx. the same size..........Never really looked, but it looked like a good amount to me for "4 bucks", so I grabbed a couple, and it works just the same.

 

[phug]

That's where I was going. PBW probably uses Sodium Metasilicate due to the environmental restrictions in some states/provinces. TSP would be the preferred additive in my humble opinion.

will the reactions be the same using TSP over metasilicate? is the safety level the same?

 

[jtratcliff]

From:
http://www.housekeepingchannel.com/hcp_195-Trisodium_phosphate_TSP

Both TSP and sodium metasilicate are highly alkaline. Dust from these powders can irritate the nose, eyes and lungs. When mixed with water to form a cleaning solution, prolonged exposure to both chemicals can cause skin irritation. Wear protective gloves, eye protection and long sleeved shirts and pants while using these products. Wear a dust mask while mixing these powders with water if dust irritates nasal passages.

So they're similar in that they are strong bases (but not as strong as lye), that they dissolve well in water, and that they rinse off well.

Even Palmer mentions TSP as an effective post-ferment cleaner:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter2-2-1.html

 

[actionjackson905]

will the reactions be the same using TSP over metasilicate? is the safety level the same?

When I found a post about the mixture of Oxy/TSP there was mention of Red Devil TSP-90 being the alternative to TSP. TSP was readily available to me here, so I gave it a shot. I honestly was skeptical about it working as I liked how PBW worked for me. I was pleasantly surprised how well the mix worked compared to PBW, and how similar the effectiveness was. And for less than half the price, I'm sold. As for the safety level, never really gave it a second thought, I just treated the new mixture with the same precautions as i would have with PBW. I have always used cleaners in a ventilated area and avoid inhaling the dust and eye/skin contact until diluted with water, when I avoid splashing around the face/eyes. I have had no issues with skin contact after dilution.

 

[phug]

okay so effectiveness appears to be spoken form and as for safety, I think I'm going to say that regular TSP is safe to use in cleaning my equipment, since it's also an FDA approved food additive.

so that being said, the next time I'm at walmart, I'm picking up a 900g carton of trisodium phosphate, and 2.72 Kg tub of oxy for a total of 15.75 tax in.

I'll separate out 900 grams of the oxy for regular laundry type stuff, and that'll give me 33% tsp and 66% oxy

I was about to spend 10+tax on a 1 lb tub of PBW next week.

 

[orangehero]

TSP restrictions are due to environmental safety not your safety.

 

[actionjackson905]

okay so effectiveness appears to be spoken form and as for safety, I think I'm going to say that regular TSP is safe to use in cleaning my equipment, since it's also an FDA approved food additive.

so that being said, the next time I'm at walmart, I'm picking up a 900g carton of trisodium phosphate, and 2.72 Kg tub of oxy for a total of 15.75 tax in.

I'll separate out 900 grams of the oxy for regular laundry type stuff, and that'll give me 33% tsp and 66% oxy

I was about to spend 10+tax on a 1 lb tub of PBW next week.

Looks like a good plan. I went with 70-30% mix with no issues. SWMBO can get her own damn Oxy ;-)

 

[actionjackson905]

tsp restrictions are due to environmental safety not your safety.

👍🍻

 

[phug]

Picked up my hobo pbw. Going to take it for a test run after I bottle my next batch

 

[thekraken]

So what is the most up-to-date formula?

Per post #11 I have 48% 'Oxygen cleaner', 32% TSP-90, 20% Seventh Generation by weight.

And does it matter what brand name oxy cleaner we use?

 

[actionjackson905]

So what is the most up-to-date formula?

Per post #11 I have 48% 'Oxygen cleaner', 32% TSP-90, 20% Seventh Generation by weight.

And does it matter what brand name oxy cleaner we use?

Oxyclean Free. It's uncented and bleach free. I tried to attach a photo but couldn't. So here is the Walmart canada link.

http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/oxiclean-free-versatile-stain-remover-136kg/6000072430566

 

[actionjackson905]

Picked up my hobo pbw. Going to take it for a test run after I bottle my next batch

Make sure you post your findings here as to help the other HB'ers. Effective? Same, better, not as good as PBW? I'm curious to know what others have found with the cheaper mix.

 

[thekraken]

Oxyclean Free. It's uncented and bleach free. I tried to attach a photo but couldn't. So here is the Walmart canada link.

http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/oxiclean-free-versatile-stain-remover-136kg/6000072430566

Well, the OP started out with Sun Oxygen brand, I'v seen it mentioned a few times to try the dollar store for generic brands instead of paying for Oxyclean Free. So I'm wondering if they are all the same or if we would need to adjust the recipe for different brand names?

 

[JonGrafto]

Make sure you post your findings here as to help the other HB'ers. Effective? Same, better, not as good as PBW? I'm curious to know what others have found with the cheaper mix.

Works awesomely... After I transfer my beer out of the fermenter, I rinse the sludge out and then put a couple tablespoons full into the fermenter and fill with hot water... Let sit for a few hours (sometime overnight) and the krausen ring has disappeared.

Just as good as PBW in my mind.

 

[orangemen5]

Works awesomely... After I transfer my beer out of the fermenter, I rinse the sludge out and then put a couple tablespoons full into the fermenter and fill with hot water... Let sit for a few hours (sometime overnight) and the krausen ring has disappeared.



Just as good as PBW in my mind.

Does it rinse as well as PBW? The only reason I've never used oxi clean is all the rinsing it took. I have hard water so maybe that was the prob. PBW rinses easy though 2 rinses and it good to go.

 

[orangemen5]

Works awesomely... After I transfer my beer out of the fermenter, I rinse the sludge out and then put a couple tablespoons full into the fermenter and fill with hot water... Let sit for a few hours (sometime overnight) and the krausen ring has disappeared.



Just as good as PBW in my mind.

Does it rinse as well as PBW? The only reason I've never used oxi clean is all the rinsing it took. I have hard water so maybe that was the prob. PBW rinses easy though 2 rinses and it good to go.

 

[Slow_Day]

Does it rinse as well as PBW? The only reason I've never used oxi clean is all the rinsing it took. I have hard water so maybe that was the prob. PBW rinses easy though 2 rinses and it good to go.

I was using oxy+TSP90, and my hard water gave me problems as well. The addition of the 7th gen dish washing powder improves the rinsing a lot.

 

[actionjackson905]

I was using oxy+TSP90, and my hard water gave me problems as well. The addition of the 7th gen dish washing powder improves the rinsing a lot.

That's funny as I have always found PBW leaves kind of a slimy feel that needs to be rinsed off, and it's not as bad with the Oxy/TSP mix.

I wonder what's in the 7th gen that takes care of the hard water issue? I don't have hard water so I'm good with the simple mix.

 

[Slow_Day]

I wonder what's in the 7th gen that takes care of the hard water issue? I don't have hard water so I'm good with the simple mix.

The issue I had with my water was a minerally residue if left to soak for extended periods. Otherwise oxy/tsp90 by itself cleaned well. Not sure if / how much the 7th gen improves the cleaning properties.

The 7th gen may provide mostly a chelate, (citric acid), to deal with hard water.