Homebrewing saved me over $1000 in 2015!

[poptarts]

I understand considering opportunity costs when it's something you don't want to do, like a tricky house repair or something when you're debating on sinking all your spare time vs paying someone. But counting labor on a hobby is just wrong.

yes, this

 

[Kampenken]

Here on HBT this discussion is equivalent to one about politics or religion!

Now, is it just me or does the OP's math (on what is supplied only) not add up?

$1500 spent on alcohol in 2014 (presumably the baseline)
$350 spent in 2015 on same
$400 spent on homebrew ingredients
How is savings > $1000???!

Brew on folks, brew on because you love it!!

 

[A2HB]

At $11 per six pack your $25 would buy you 1.28 gallons of craft beer. I was curious.

Yeah and then you have to take into account that a lot of craft breweries are doing those damnedable 4 packs these days, so that pushes the cost per brew even higher.

The cost of 4 packs was a real big push to get me into home brewing, or at least curious about it enough to start researching the topic

 

[mongoose33]

I get pretty irritated at prices of "craft" beer at the store and what a pint costs in a pub.
When I figure what it costs me to make a beer at the homebrew level, its even more bothersome. I'm wondering why there doesn't seem to be any price competition in the beer marketplace.

For less discerning consumers, price = quality. If you charge a lot for something it must be good, no?

I used to have a golf clubmaking business. I'd add $20/club to my costs of components, consumables and such as my compensation.

When the golf industry collapsed after overbuilding following the surge of Tiger Woods, there was lots of excess capacity. Major club manufacturers like Ping, Titleist, TM, etc. cost-cut items that previously were fairly expensive.

I discovered later, much to my chagrin, that I needed to price my clubs HIGHER so that the perceived value was higher. Lots of golf club purchasing is based on name, story, and recognition. When someone could pull a Ping from their bag or a Mongoose33 from their bag, when some pro was playing Pings on tour and nobody was playing a Mongoose33, well, guess what happened?

I should have added $300 to the cost of a set and given purchasers a story to tell when they pulled those clubs from the bag so they could justify why they played Mongoose33 instead of Titleist or whatever. I should have laminated a "statement of design" for purchasers telling them that these clubs were frequency-matched to ensure shaft flex was consistent all the way up and down a set, that they were either swingweight-matched to ensure the same feel of heft or moment-of-inertia matched. And I should have demonstrated how I *knew* my clubs were more consistent than the name brands (which they were).

I would have sold somewhat fewer clubs but I would have made more money.

I don't buy the most expensive beer at the local pub; I purchase the one I like to drink best, and rarely is it the priciest. But some people will equate quality with price, even if the can't in a blind taste test identify the pricier from the cheaper brews.

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

Here on HBT this discussion is equivalent to one about politics or religion!

Now, is it just me or does the OP's math (on what is supplied only) not add up?

$1500 spent on alcohol in 2014 (presumably the baseline)
$350 spent in 2015 on same
$400 spent on homebrew ingredients
How is savings > $1000???!

Brew on folks, brew on because you love it!!

Hah my math is terrible! you know I was thinking of over 1000 saved before I threw in the ingredients figure this morning! I could say I spent 1000 less at the booze store thought.

 

[bob1852]

But because it's a hobby and not a business we don't need to quantify labor and opportunity costs. Brewing saves him money because he's not buying beer, that's all there is to it.

I disagree. When something is a hobby you do not need to count your time as labor. He's saving money because he's spending less money. Doesnt have to be complicated.

Except he didn't save money.

In 2014 he spent ~$1500 on beer.

In 2015 he spent $3400 on equipment and ingredients before he even made a drop of beer.

Last I checked: $3400 > $1500.

There are NO labor costs associated with homebrewing

Labor costs don't have to be measured in $$.

 

[mmb]

Home brewing has saved me tons of money in beer costs.

Well, except for exploring commercial examples of styles that I hadn't experienced before.

And equipment that would not be needed for anything but brewing.

And books on brewing.

And magazine subscriptions.

And AHA membership.

And shipping for beer comps.

And the trip to NHC.

And the draft system.



But I sure save money on buying six packs of beer. I just can't seem to find those savings anywhere.

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

The Wheel of time keeps turning. The discussion gets another spoke.

This was a down year for brewing for me, but I'll be back! I always come back.

 

[bob1852]

And the trip to NHC.

Well, by only going to NHC once, you've saved money.

Oh, and it's Homebrew Con now, not NHC. :fro:

 

[kh54s10]

Except he didn't save money.

In 2014 he spent ~$1500 on beer.

In 2015 he spent $3400 on equipment and ingredients before he even made a drop of beer.

Last I checked: $3400 > $1500.



Labor costs don't have to be measured in $$.

If you consider it a cost - you need a new hobby, or none!

 

[IrregularPulse]

Homebrewing cost me too much money. I have a potential brewery sitting in my cellar, not producing any alcohol and taking up floor space for a hypothetical piece of equipment that could one gain generate income.

 

[broadbill]

I understand considering opportunity costs when it's something you don't want to do, like a tricky house repair or something when you're debating on sinking all your spare time vs paying someone. But counting labor on a hobby is just wrong.

Hey, I agree counting labor on a hobby is wrong, but I'm not the one believing I actually save money by brewing my own beer compared to what I can buy it for. This only looks good from a cost stand point because you specifically ignore the labor we put into it. Breweries don't have this luxury and pass along the cost to the consumer.

If for sh*ts & giggles you did a labor calculation you'd probably see that craft beer is probably very competitively priced compared to our home brewed beer (especially if we charged the hourly rate we get at our day jobs!). This is because that although they pass along labor costs, they also pass along the savings for brewing at scale. 6 man hours gets you five gallons. 12 man hours gets them 10 bbl.

 

[hunter_le five]

I understand considering opportunity costs when it's something you don't want to do, like a tricky house repair or something when you're debating on sinking all your spare time vs paying someone. But counting labor on a hobby is just wrong.

Yup. If I choose to stay at home and brew beer instead of going to work today at my hourly job, then yes, there is a very real opportunity/labor cost.

But if I'm choosing between homebrewing beer or binge-watching reruns of Hannah Montana with my thumb up my *******, then there's no real monetary cost involved. With either choice it's recreational time.

 

[hunter_le five]

Hey, I agree counting labor on a hobby is wrong, but I'm not the one believing I actually save money by brewing my own beer compared to what I can buy it for. This only looks good from a cost stand point because you specifically ignore the labor we put into it. Breweries don't have this luxury and pass along the cost to the consumer.

If for sh*ts & giggles you did a labor calculation you'd probably see that craft beer is probably very competitively priced compared to our home brewed beer (especially if we charged the hourly rate we get at our day jobs!). This is because that although they pass along labor costs, they also pass along the savings for brewing at scale. 6 man hours gets you five gallons. 12 man hours gets them 10 bbl.

Do you consider reading a book to be labor? How about watching a movie? I guess that $5 movie rental actually cost you $45!

Activities engaged in a hobby/recreation do not equal labor. Especially when the "process" is part of the fun.

 

[bob1852]

Do you consider reading a book to be labor?

Actually, yes, I do.

 

[canehdianman]

I sat down with my wife last night and went over our yearly finances.

In 2014 I was not a homebrewer, we spent $1500 on alcohol at the booze store and going out to local pubs for a beer.

In 2015 I had a 15 gallon system, 6 tap keeezer, and haven't bought a six pack in well over a year.

In 2015 we spent $350 on alcohol at the booze store and local pubs.

Considering I spent about $400 on ingredients in 2015 that is over $1000 less money spent in 2015. I was pretty surprised and tickled by those numbers.


Now the long backstory if you want to read on:

I know this doesn't factor in equipment but I had wanted to brew for years so in late 2014 I got a modest 5K inheritance from my grandma's passing. I decided grandpa (who was a boozer and woodworker) would love to see me put that to good use so I spent about 3K getting a nice setup for brewing, (15 gallon cooler and pot setup, 6 tap keezer) and the rest of the money I spent on tools for a wood shop, since we just bought a house with a shop and no tools. Grandpa was also cheap so I know he would love it if I could tell him he's helping me enjoy great beer and save money in the long run!

Cheers!

I love homebrewing as well, but it takes a while to recoup the initial investment for most people (except BIABers I suppose).

If you include the 3k you spent on equipment, you spent 3400 in 2015, as opposed to the 1500 you spent in 2014. But on the bright side, in 3 years or so, you'll be ahead of game!

 

[iijakii]

Hey, I agree counting labor on a hobby is wrong, but I'm not the one believing I actually save money by brewing my own beer compared to what I can buy it for. This only looks good from a cost stand point because you specifically ignore the labor we put into it. Breweries don't have this luxury and pass along the cost to the consumer.
.

But we're only talking about a cost standpoint. You keep bringing up labor saying he isn't saving money. He is saving money (if you ignore the equipment cost...) though! He spent less on alcohol + brewing ingredients this past year than the previous. Whatever his possible labor rate might be is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

Of course commercial beer prices are a lot more than just ingredients, there's labor, taxes, building and other overheads etc... but so what? Does he need to amortize his mortgage too so he can get a good picture here? So youre brewing in your garage, do you divide your mortgage into sqft and rent the space from yourself and add that into the batch costs?

 

[bob1852]

But we're only talking about a cost standpoint. You keep bringing up labor saying he isn't saving money. He is saving money (if you ignore the equipment cost...) though!

So he is saving money (just ignore the part where he isn't).

Does he need to amortize his mortgage too so he can get a good picture here? So youre brewing in your garage, do you divide your mortgage into sqft and rent the space from yourself and add that into the batch costs?

If you want to get a true cost of homebrewing, then yes.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I guess that $5 movie rental actually cost you $45!

$55. $5 rental plus $1 per shade in home use movie props.

Wait, what?

 

[broadbill]

Do you consider reading a book to be labor? How about watching a movie? I guess that $5 movie rental actually cost you $45!

Activities engaged in a hobby/recreation do not equal labor. Especially when the "process" is part of the fun.

I agree. that isn't what I'm talking about.

 

[iijakii]

So he is saving money (just ignore the part where he isn't).

Agreed, which is why I can't say homebrewing saves me money. The OP specifically mentions to ignore that part though and focus on the alcohol - alcohol relationship.

If you want to get a true cost of homebrewing, then yes.

Nope.

 

[hunter_le five]

I agree. that isn't what I'm talking about.

Please explain.

 

[iijakii]

I agree. that isn't what I'm talking about.

/thread

We converted him, guys!

 

[hunter_le five]

If you want to get a true cost of homebrewing, then yes.

Nope. The mortgage is a cost with or without homebrewing, and is therefore irrelevant for cost analysis.

/managerial accountant

 

[m00ps]

my 11 minute brewdays and extreme boundary pushing efficiencies save me more time and money than all you suckers

end of discussion. advantage: m00ps

 

[bob1852]

Nope. The mortgage is a cost with or without homebrewing, and is therefore irrelevant for cost analysis.

/managerial accountant

You insist that we must include labor costs in the homebrewing cost analysis.

If I work from home, I can deduct part of my home expenses as a home office, correct?

Ergo....

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

my 11 minute brewdays and extreme boundary pushing efficiencies save me more time and money than all you suckers

#raiseatoastedsteaktoyou

 

[bob1852]

Agreed, which is why I can't say homebrewing saves me money. The OP specifically mentions to ignore that part though and focus on the alcohol - alcohol relationship.

Then he needs to start a new thread. This one is about homebrewing saving you money (which it doesn't).

 

[Hello]

Holy crap! You nerds sure took the wind out the guy's sails! But really, I think it has been established that home brewing may not actually save money for some. In some cases, if you stick with a brewing kit, never make an upgrade and brew on as you would then yes, home brewing can save money. I'm in the red myself. I didn't start home brewing to save money though.

 

[hunter_le five]

You insist that we must include labor costs in the homebrewing cost analysis.

I'm insisting the opposite.

If I work from home, I can deduct part of my home expenses as a home office, correct?

Ergo....

Your logic is infallible. You win the the thread.