Home Brew Club drunk problem

[Grinder12000]

How do you post a poll?

 

[Remmy]

No poll needed. Simply kick the dude out.

 

[dkwolf]

Club officers need to have a private, sit-down talk with him. The result of that should determine the next step. If he honestly is apologetic, and the officers believe he will truly make an effort to change, let him know this is his final warning, and any further problems will result in immediate action - stripping him of club membership, etc. If he does not seem willing to change, or becomes argumentative, revoke his membership immediately. If he wants to seek help, offer him a 6 month leave of absence from the club to get his life in order.

And definitely, the next thing your club needs to do is review your bylaws. You need a section on definition of membership, and expectations of members, as well as defining the process for involuntarily removing someone as a member. Be very specific on alcohol infractions (Public Intox = 3 month suspension first offense, 6 month second offense; DUI = 1 yr suspension first offense, mandatory revocation of membership and permanent ban on second offense).

It sucks to have to rewrite bylaws because of one person - but it also sucks that one person forced you into a position to have to do that. I am currently president of our volunteer fire department (there are two sides to our dept - the fire side, which answers to our fire board (city council and township trustees), and is led by the command staff of chiefs and captains, and the business side, which is a 501(c)3 organization, and is led by a standard roster of officers - pres, sec, treas). This year we will be reviewing our bylaws because of an incident that occurred last year. One of our older members, a non-active firefighter, was charged with attempted kidnapping and sexual abuse -- of another firefighters daughter. It wasn't the first time he had been charged with crap like that, but our bylaws are very specific - we can only kick someone out for a felony conviction, and he has a history of paying the families off to make problems go away. I'm going to push for lowering that to aggrevated misdemeanor, and mandatory review for any charges against children, plus suspension while any criminal case works through the court (we had to wait until the conviction was official to do anything) As firefighters, we can't have that crap in our department, even if it is a non-active member who hasn't climbed in a truck for a decade. And as a home brew club, you can't have a member crossing the line, especially when he starts harassing other guy's wives.

 

[Grinder12000]

dkwolf - yikes - my son in law is president of our volunteer fire department here in Wisconsin. I'll have to send this to him! LOL

 

[NervousDad]

Getting drunk and fighting is not something that can be fixed with a talk IMO. You have to remove the cause, which is alcohol. They're fighting because they don't know what they're doing, so they're not going to remember that you had a talk with them when they are s-faced. I personally wouldn't want to be around a person and fear that I'll be getting into a fight with them simply because they drank too much.

 

[glenn514]

I am leaning toward the "side" of dkwolf. If your club does NOT have any bylaw that addresses this fellow's actions, then your hands are tied; you cannot "kick him out" without cause [that part you have] and authority [that part you don't have].

An informal conversation needs to take place among the officers of the club and the member. That member needs to know his actions have caused him to be extremely UNwelcome at club activities. He also needs to understand that his actions have caused the club to revisit its constitution and bylaws, so that some "teeth" are in place for any similar actions by any club member. Once changes to the constitution and bylaws are in place, that member will know exactly where he stands.

Not an easy topic to tackle.

glenn514

 

[dkwolf]

To expand a little further, if your club is not incorporated and is little more than a loose association of brewers, you might have a little more leeway. Since our fire department is tied to the city, with members having to first be voted on by the department and then approved by the city council, and our bylaws specifically state that once a member, the only ways an individual can be removed from membership are if he/she moves outside of our fire district, misses four consecutive business meetings, or is convicted of a felony, had we taken any action against our little pervert before his conviction was final, he would have sued us and taken us to the cleaners.

A thought for a catch-all clause would be "...actions detrimental to the membership and/or public image of ____ home brew club, as determined by the current panel of officers, with consequences to be determined by such, up to and including termination of membership from the club."

 

[Beergnomes]

I think a letter of apology to the offended club and or brew fest if necessary is appropriate. Then I like Soccerdads approach, a more private one on one ultimatum.

 

[Rhumbline]

...misses four consecutive business meetings, or is convicted of a felony, had we taken any action against our little pervert before his conviction was final, he would have sued us and taken us to the cleaners.

"

So, if he'd won a four day cruise and during that time you had several business meetings, he'd be out? It would be worth a few hundred bucks to purge this pos.

Because my other solution involved duct tape, a shovel, and a baseball bat. I'm trying to be a better person.

 

[soccerdad]

Just my personal opinion....
If it was my club, nobody with 2 DUI's would be allowed in.

So you guys do background checks???

 

[glenn514]

A thought for a catch-all clause would be "...actions detrimental to the membership and/or public image of ____ home brew club, as determined by the current panel of officers, with consequences to be determined by such, up to and including termination of membership from the club."

That makes perfect sense! It would permit some latitude in each different situation, yet it offers the "authority" for the club to take action. I second the motion!

glenn514

 

[bajaedition]

Would you say a 50 year old that got 2 DUIs when he was in his early 20s and nothing since then is the same as him getting 2 DUIs in the last 2 years?

1 dui is something I can get over
2 shows that you have a learning problem and make poor decisions
2 duis and still drinking is another thing all together, it shows the abiltiy to put yourself in a bad situation, add the drink till you lose you inhibitions and fight and make a few passes at wives of club members
now you have proven you need to get a handle on the drinking

but besides that, the bigger problems,there are 2 bigger problems here

both deal with liability

the Club MAKES beer, that is all a lawyer needs to know to fillet the club in court if one of 2 things happen
he gets in a wreck leaving a club event, even if that event is a 2 beers at a club members house after work. He has a past history no matter how old and he belonged to a club that is highly involved with producing beer, thus enabling him to consume such.
or
He gets hurt somehow while at or after a club function and his family points to the fact his BEER CLUB was enabling his proven problem with alcohol.

where you sit about his problem or lack of problem is not what will be sued
it will be the wallet you have, the house you live in, the future earnings you make till the cost of the suit, and whatever is rewarded is collected.
even with the suit being won by the club, someone will have to pay for the cost of defending it.

believe me, when the Officer members are named and have to hire a lawyer, very few of the rest of the members are going step up and offer a few grand to help them, they are going distance themselves hoping no to get sued also.

now knowing such, who here wants to reach out and ask him to stop on his own free will, accepting the liability, and who would distance themselves from the liability?

 

[Opiate42]

Disclaimer: haven't read the entire thread, still kinda new here.

So you guys do background checks???

Don't know if going that far would be necessary. But a history of bad behaviour, I'm voting for the sit-down chat when sober.

It's a fun social thing, bad angry drunks who pick fights are not social or fun.

Give him a couple strikes, suggest he takes it easy on the booze in public so he doesn't get fighty, but if he uses those strikes up he's no longer a welcome member.

Things like this make me happy I'm a smiley happy drunk

 

[Homercidal]

If you or other members of the club really like the guy, it would be worth it to have a heart-to-heart about his problem (as you see it). It is worth it to help a friend.

But as a club, you need to cut him out. He is a serious risk for others in the club.

In any event, club members need to be aware of the expectations the club has of them, and the club needs to monitor people at their parties and call cabs, contact police, etc. to protect the club. It is far better to be embarrassed by having to call in some help, than it would be for the police or fire department to pull this guy out of a burning wreck wearing the club shirt.

It's a Homebrew club. Asking someone not to drink while at a club party is dumb. If he continues to be a member, then sooner or later he will drink too much again and it's not worth the risk.

 

[trboyden]

You don't need to. Just like an employment form, have your membership sign a form 1) asking if they have had a DUI, and 2) state if they lie about it they are automatically terminated. The policy on how many DUI's a person can have before they are kicked out I leave to the clubs to decide. You can require your membership to resign/recommit at any time, just like an annual acknowledgement of an employee manual. After that, if it becomes common knowledge that a person got a DUI, which is easily verifiable through public records/newspaper records, the club can take action. Aside from that common/practical step, background checks are cheap and easy to do today. There are websites dedicated to it that women use for checking up on potential dates. That is how common it is now. Just like checking a vehicle history report.

 

[Grannyknot]

So you guys do background checks???

I suppose that quote was from my post??.....
It isn't my club and so no, I don't do background checks.

My point was that I would not knowingly let someone with 2 DUIs into my homebrew club.

 

[BeerGrylls]

So you guys do background checks???

What's wrong with asking the person before letting him join? If you later find out he was lying, that makes the decision much easier.

 

[soccerdad]

I wasn't being snide with the background check question - honest. I just see a few quantum leaps being taken here .. like the assumption that the guy is an addict. He very well might not be. He sure seems to be a butt hole though We also seem to think that his DUIs were all in the past 3 weeks and plastered all over the front page. But we have no clue. They might be 15 and 20 years old. I think any club needs to have parameters for either being inclusive or exclusive. It doesn't matter to me which they choose. But questions about whether you have EVER had a DUI when you are all about making beer and tasting beer seems counter intuitive. Will you also ask prospective members if they are pricks when they drink?

 

[Grannyknot]

I have an aversion to people with multiple DUIs, due to a tragic event earlier in my life.
Call it a quantum leap, unjustified, whatever.....the 2nd is unforgivable in my eyes, regardless of the circumstances.

 

[unionrdr]

My youngest brother was hit by a speeding pick up back in '70-'72. The guy had stopped at the little store across the corner from my street & got some beer. My sis & I were picking wild strawberries on a cul de sac about a mile away when we heard a skid & thump. I'll always blame myself for talking my parents into his 1st sleep over. I knew the other kid & he was irresponsible at times.
But that guy being drunk did it. An off duty black nurse revived him,but he only lived like another 5 days. In light of this memory,I say he should get das boot before he does something you'll all be sorry for. It might finally snap him into reality?...

 

[trboyden]

The whole privilege to being able to make and taste beer hinges on the homebrewing community not abusing it - in that context, asking about DUIs not only should be intuitive, it should be a best practice by all clubs and their members that represent homebrewers in the public space/eye.

Would I refuse to be friends with someone just because they had a DUI? No, of course not, and I have friends that did get DUIs that I am good friends with. They made a responsible, personal decision to stop drinking because of it. Good on them, but that wasn't a requirement of our friendship.

But from an organizational and an educational standpoint, which a homebrew club should be about, DUIs should be extremely discouraged, and proactive efforts made to avoid them in the first place like arranging a designated driver program as a club initiative. If you are just a drinking social club, then don't use a "Homebrew" description in your club's name. It's that simple. I would imagine the AHA would have similar strong feelings about that, and would be willing to take action if clear abuses are shown. They worked hard to achieve a 50 state legal homebrewing objective. I am sure they wouldn't want to see that jeopardized.

 

[Remmy]

Kick the guy out already. IMO, it seems as if the OP doesn't have the courage to step up to the plate and have a face-to-face with said drunk.

That's why this thread was created and that is why nothing productive has been done as of yet.

 

[dkwolf]

Kick the guy out already. IMO, it seems as if the OP doesn't have the courage to step up to the plate and have a face-to-face with said drunk.

That's why this thread was created and that is why nothing productive has been done as of yet.

You're stretching. The guy found himself/his club in a situation they haven't had to deal with before, and is asking the collective knowledge base here how we would handle it.

And the thread is just over 24 hours old now. One can make the assumption that the event in question was this weekend, or maybe last weekend. If the club does not have anything concrete in their bylaws in how to deal with this, it cannot be a quick decision. If I were in the OP's shoes, I'd probably want to get the club officers together and discuss the problem and possible recourse before talking to the offending member. Make sure everyone is on the same page before you set things in motion.

But hey, you want to try and call out the OP for not having the stones to handle it before thinking everything through, that's your deal. But you're wrong. The OP is so far handling this exactly as they should. Get opinions, formulate a plan, and then act. Not the other way around.

 

[Remmy]

OK, thanks.

 

[DrunkleJon]

To start out I am most definitely not a lawyer. My opinion is that first and foremost you have to establish in your rules/bylaws what is and isnt acceptable behavior and a code of conduct (especially when representing the club/wearing the colors). You also need to spell out what the oncequences of breaking these rules is. Just like any other organization, if it isnt in writing they can fight you on it. Only then do you have the right to read him the riot act. Until then in my opinion the only thing you can do is privately approach him, talk it through and maybe give him a written warning of how his behavior is affecting the club. This way you at least have proof that you disciplined him so that if/when your bylaws are established it may be usable against him when he screws up again and gets booted.

I am not saying you all need to be too lenient, but if you do not establish expectations it is kinda hard to say "you broke such and such unwritten rule so you are out. Our society is far to litigious as it is nowadays so you really need to CYA. But once again he needs to be officially confronted but tactfully and told that irresponsible behavior that makes the club look bad is not going to be tolerated in the future.

Alcohol seems to bring and amplify out what is inside. I have found in my personal experience that if I am in a good mood and start drinking I am the nicest guy on earth when in my cups. If I am angry, i can be a jerk (so I do not drink when in a bad mood). Is this guy a little intense even when sober?


Also, you may want to consider contacting the AHA and see what they think. They are here for homebrewers afterall and know the legal aspects of it all better than Billy-Bob and Cleetus on the intranets do after all.

 

[max384]

If it were my club, I'd kick him out. Between the two DUIs, fighting, and especially the remarks about other club members' wives... That's just too much. I also personally hate angry drunks, so I'm not very apt to easily forgive that sort of behavior.

It's a headache for you, it makes the club look bad, and keeping him around a drinking environment won't help him either.

 

[Grinder12000]

This is the first time we have ever had to deal with anything like this and we are getting together but I wanted to see what others thought.

5 officers are not enough opinions for something we had not considered would happen.

BTW - our meeting is in a conference room at a bar and we all have at least one beer FROM THE BAR before the meeting. Thus, there might beer loophole with accidents, we purchased beer from the bar right

After the meeting we all go to a craft beer bar for more so what we consume is only a small amount of the total consumption and we are in the process of getting insurance.

 

[Remmy]

If it were my club, I'd kick him out. Between the two DUIs, fighting, and especially the remarks about other club members' wives... That's just too much. I also personally hate angry drunks, so I'm not very apt to easily forgive that sort of behavior.

It's a headache for you, it makes the club look bad, and keeping him around a drinking environment won't help him either.

You're stretching.

 

[TopherM]

FYI, we had a similar situation in our club that contributed to a sort of civil war in our membership over whether we were a beer brewing club or a social club. In the end, about 20 of our 70ish members left and formed their own club. A big part of that was that they felt there was too much drinking at some of our events. We've since weeded out some bad eggs, but I wish we had been more forceful when things first started getting out of control. One of the biggest peaves of the other side, and a good point in hindsight, was that the major offenders were members of the club who were not even brewers, and seemed to use their membership only for discounts and tasting events. Since we've changed this direction, our membership is back up in the 70s.

Just wanted to illustrate that this can definitely affect the future of your club if not handled promptly and firmly (but kindly!).

 

[max384]

You're stretching.

What am I stretching about? Those are my opinions on this matter.