Home Brew Club drunk problem

[fartinmartin]

Some guys just shouldn't drink. I once worked in sales and some entertainment evenings would get out of hand, if the customers got stupid we would try to defuse and then forget about it, as employees we could get as blotto as can be, but cross the line, be stupid, just the once, it for sure won't be happening again.
Once identified, some guys shouldn't drink , sorry , end of !

 

[NickTheGreat]

WTH is the point of grown men joining a 'club' anyways? I guess some people lack originality and have the need to "belong". Of course, mob mentality brings up other problems when there's drinking involved. Maybe you should have said something while he was causing trouble; instead of getting on the internet and asking a bunch of strangers what another stranger's fate should be, based on incredibly little background details.

groupies....

You mean besides forums. Right? RIGHT?!? :cross:

 

[00p]

I think someone else said something similar, but now I can't find the post. I would definitely look at your state's dram shop statutes, which will address the liability of a person or legal entity serving alcohol to an individual who the causes some harm while intoxicated. I'm not in a brew club, but I sure wouldn't want to be sued because someone got drunk at my house and got in a wreck.


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[blizzard]

I would have to know the guy to decide whether or not he should get another chance, but I think that you know the answer.

That said, I think two things should definitely happen.

1. Limit the liability of the club and its members. If that means incorporating the club, or booting him (have good records), or taking his colors, you owe that to the group as one of its officials.

2. Apologize to the other group. I don't think you should make him write a letter. We're all adults here; he should do what he thinks is right. But on behalf of your group, I think you need to extend an olive branch to the other group. Let them know you are sorry a member got out of hand, you are working on fixing it, and that you are a bunch of good people and not a bunch of drunks. I think a phone call would be fine, but in person (over a beer with their president) might be even better.

 

[Grinder12000]

OK - "colors" - we have some pretty sweet bowling style shirts with our logo on the back and name on the front.

Clubs - we TEACH you how to brew, discuss water, yeast have contests have speakers coming in and so forth. NOT a drinking club (but there is a fair amount of drinking).

In Wisconsin seems you can have 10 DUI's before people start taking notice then they take your license away which does not really slow you done. Also the rules for injuring someone while drunk are pretty relaxed in WI - we are getting insurance and becoming LLC. Heck our per barrel tax is $2 for breweries. LOL

I guess this is his 2nd problem - seems he was tossed out of a bar after a club meeting for drinking others beer and eating their food (I was not their).

Great conversation - I love hearing both sides and why.

My problem is at the moment our clubs bylaws do not have anything on this so we need to address it. We've been growing every year so it's part of growing pains I guess.


Sun Prairie WortHogs

 

[Bobby_M]

I've been in my club's leadership group as president, secretary, and now just a board member for several years and I'm quite sure a disruptive ass would be out. Done and done. If he kills himself on the road after one of your meetings or events, his next of kin can and will sue the hell out of your officers for over serving him.

 

[BigSumpin]

Usually only the happy/sloppy drunk will listen if you have a talk with em'
The obnoxious/violent ones never listen...

 

[Rhumbline]

I'm in the boot him out club. I also think your club needs some guidelines concerning responsible drinking when there's a public event.

You don't need a rule that says "don't hit on another guy's wife" but you need something.

 

[passedpawn]

Kick him out. That behavior will repeat itself. Don't kid yourself here.

 

[mattd2]

I would give the guy another chance. Have an informal chat with him about what happened. Was this the first time he embarassed your club and himself in public?

Make that a formal chat - this is a serious matter and needs to be address formally

I would have to know the guy to decide whether or not he should get another chance, but I think that you know the answer.

That said, I think two things should definitely happen.

1. Limit the liability of the club and its members. If that means incorporating the club, or booting him (have good records), or taking his colors, you owe that to the group as one of its officials.

2. Apologize to the other group. I don't think you should make him write a letter. We're all adults here; he should do what he thinks is right. But on behalf of your group, I think you need to extend an olive branch to the other group. Let them know you are sorry a member got out of hand, you are working on fixing it, and that you are a bunch of good people and not a bunch of drunks. I think a phone call would be fine, but in person (over a beer with their president) might be even better.

I fully agree, tell the guy that he has upset the other club but do not force him to apologise - but the club leadership need to apologise and explain what is being done to adress this.

...
My problem is at the moment our clubs bylaws do not have anything on this so we need to address it. We've been growing every year so it's part of growing pains I guess...

This....if rules/ expectations were not in place makes it hard to kick him out

Take this as an oppertunity to set down the rules. And also sit down and formally tell him he is on notice for his behavour, tell him the clubs purpose is for the promotion of homebrewing, not drinking and his behavoiur is damaging the clubs public image. Let him know in no uncertain terms that if he overindulges again during a club event or has any other problems with the police/local bars that involve drunkeness that he will be kicked out. And offer him the chance to leave the club with his annual dues fully refunded if he doesn't want to change his ways - I would rather absolutly no ties with the guy if he doesn't want to change than keep a few dollars of his money.

Good luck!

 

[ScottG58]

It really sounds like your member is in an alcoholic downward spiral. Happy drunks are a myth. It is a horrible disease that takes its toll on the alcoholic and those who are close to them. If he drinks like that and behaves poorly when drinking his other relationships are in a shambles.

If your member's behavior is a symptom of alcoholism, a home brew club cannot be a positive place for him to be. If he is an alcoholic, you can't make him stop. If he is an alcoholic, you cannot control him and make him slow down. With an alcoholic, every drink is "off to the races".

While you cannot control him, you can control your reaction to him. You do not owe the drunk your sanity.

If you are not close to this guy, distancing yourself and your club may be your best survival tactic. If you are close to him, Al Anon can help you develop some survival skills.

 

[passedpawn]

Don't confuse overconsumption with aggressive, obnoxious behavior. One happens easily in our hobby, and should be expected occasionally. The other is a sign of a personality problem leaking out. The latter isn't going to change IMO.

 

[PackerfaninSanDiego]

this topic need a poll

 

[beersnblues]

Ditto ScottG58. If he is a friend then you should recognize that he has a serious illness and attempt to help him understand this. If he rejects your help or is meerly an acquaintance then I would get as far away from him as possible as he will only pull you down. Based on what has been presented, I don't think there is any doubt that he is an alcoholic. You need offer no explaination for expelling him from the club other than his deplorable behavior. I agree that the leadership of the club should apologize to the other club's members for the behavior.

 

[mattd2]

It really sounds like your member is in an alcoholic downward spiral. Happy drunks are a myth. It is a horrible disease that takes its toll on the alcoholic and those who are close to them. If he drinks like that and behaves poorly when drinking his other relationships are in a shambles.

If your member's behavior is a symptom of alcoholism, a home brew club cannot be a positive place for him to be. If he is an alcoholic, you can't make him stop. If he is an alcoholic, you cannot control him and make him slow down. With an alcoholic, every drink is "off to the races".

While you cannot control him, you can control your reaction to him. You do not owe the drunk your sanity.

If you are not close to this guy, distancing yourself and your club may be your best survival tactic. If you are close to him, Al Anon can help you develop some survival skills.

While I am no Pychiatrist (can I even spell it?) I would be cautious of labeling the guy an alcoholic without the full facts:
Yes he has 2 DUI, but when did he get them, how much over was he, etc.
Yes he behaved badly in public after more than a few too many it sounds - but how was everyone else behaving? Seems like nobody told him he needed to calm down /sleep it off during the night.
the point is, we don't know the full story of this guy.
The best thing to do is to let him know the standards expect of the club (and let everyone know them), tell him he is on his last warning and will be monitored closly until he has proven himself to be up to that standard, and tell him that if those standards do not suit him he is not welcome as part of the club. I think it is something that should be seperately brought up as a club issue regarding the drinking culture and the risk associated with alcoholicism - with some information from support groups / counsiling if anyone needs more information. And continue to have that information/pamphlets in the club just in case.

 

[rocketsan]

A DUI is a DUI. Two of them is worse. Now he's picking fights...

He'd be gone if it were my decision.


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[whitehause]

No need to get too overzealous about it.

Just tell him that his behavior was BS and next time it happens he's gone. If you've already warned him, then boot him.

If he has people in the club that are his friends outside the club, let them deal with his problems, no need to involve the club in someone's personal affairs.

 

[MaxStout]

Wisconsin likely has a dram shop law. Depending on the language of the law, your club could be liable if this (or any) member causes harm while under the influence of alcohol that was provided by the club. Depends on the state--some narrowly define a "dram shop" as a bar or restaurant, while other states will include social groups. The latter is the case in Minnesota, but Wisconsin could be different. In any case, you don't need a potential lawsuit hanging over your club.

Give him the boot.

Edit: Then have your club officers add a clause into the bylaws clarifying its process of dismissing troublesome members, so you'll have consistent club rules next time. Hopefully there's no "next time."

 

[mattd2]

A DUI is a DUI. Two of them is worse. Now he's picking fights...

He'd be gone if it were my decision.


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Would you say a 50 year old that got 2 DUIs when he was in his early 20s and nothing since then is the same as him getting 2 DUIs in the last 2 years?

 

[Rhumbline]

Would you say a 50 year old that got 2 DUIs when he was in his early 20s and nothing since then is the same as him getting 2 DUIs in the last 2 years?

I think the DUI thing is irrelevant. The guy was an ass, he offended people and caused his team embarrassment.

I don't know if this was an isolated incident or if he's new to the group. I still say boot him, for no other reason than to show the rest of the clubs that this behavior won't be tolerated and that you'll expect the same from them if the circumstances are reversed.

 

[Wynne-R]

People that do drugs and get crazy were crazy to start with.

It’s not impossible to get over it, but it is unusual.

 

[Zamial]

Do people realize that this is a WI HBC? Just thought I would point that out...

That being said I recently started going to fests and working them. I was pouring at the FDL Brewfest. I have gotten a bit to intoxicated at fests before but now am getting better at pacing myself.

For the record I have NEVER been so fecked up before as when I did my 1st HBC brew day at my house. I was drinking while brewing and sampling stuff people brought over in a taster glass. One of the last conscious things I remember is a club member saying "This is the cider on French oak and this one is the cider on American oak." If the club president would not have come back and helped me finish the brew day I am sure I would have boiled until the propane ran out and I woke up cold and hung over in the garage.

In all honesty I would just "unofficially" talk the guy and tell him that he needs to be more aware of his actions/drinking before the club has to do something about it. Making rules because of "one guy" is a crappy thing to have to do. If you can nip the problem in the bud without having to make club policy changes it would be the best.

FWIW there was more than 1 bad drunk at the FDL brewfest, if this guy belongs to a bunch of HBC in the state, he has been kicked out of at least 1 already. May not be the person I am thinking of however...

 

[tengstrom]

I even made a nice little cheer: Kick him out, kick him out, way out.


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[cjgenever]

Behavior like that is simply unacceptable. I would have removed his colors then and there. If it's a fight he wants, it's a fight he gets.

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[Fordmi]

I don't think the DUI is irrelevant at all. At the very least it shows the person doesn't know his limits and (repeatedly) makes bad decisions.

If I were in a position to review and approve new applicants to a homebrew club, I would think long and hard about admitting someone with a DUI. I would have to consider things like time since DUI, circumstances, etc... I know as well as anybody that $h1t happens, but you have to look at the potential negative impact on the club.

I vote for asking him to leave. You wrote out the negatives about his actions without saying anything positive about him. I would read between those lines and say he offers little good to your club.

 

[fartinmartin]

My humour is telling me that the "club drunk" may be writing some of these posts, I hope he is reading them, but for clarity I would print the whole damm lot and give them to him / her , so that the message comes from outside of your club.
I would invite him to stay away from the club for six months, then welcome him back but with a probation period.

 

[petey_c]

At first I was among the, "Give him a second chance." group. After reading some of the other posts, I've switched to, "Kick him out." He's an alcoholic who hasn't admitted it to himself yet. By allowing him to stay, you're enabling him. He's a liability to your club. I'd hate to try and live with myself if he got schist faced and killed himself or someone else on the way home from a club event.
Hopefully he'll realize he has a problem and get help. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen often enough.

 

[Conman13]

I suppose I am a little more hard nosed about this. It sounds like this person has had their chance, and blew it. Behavior like that is simply unacceptable. Furthermore, the clubs reputation is now tarnished. For the sake of the perception of the club, that person has to be removed. It sounds like apologies could be due to whoever hosted the event where the drunk went rampant also.

Is it more important to give this guy a 12th chance, or a wake up call? Which is more important - the respectability of the club, or giving this guy yet another chance (opportunity to screw up again)?

 

[Grannyknot]

Just my personal opinion....
If it was my club, nobody with 2 DUI's would be allowed in.

As much as I love brewing & beer, MULTIPLE DUIs is not acceptable. I don't hang around with people that think its ok to be in a perpetual state of teenage decision making. DUIs give our hobby a bad name, and most importantly show a disregard for public safety. Mistakes happen. The same mistake twice should not happen.

 

[trboyden]

Alcoholism is a disease that needs treatment, but the individual needs to want to get help. Nothing anyone says to him will make a difference until he realizes he has a problem and needs to get help.

DUI's are preventable and show a lack of responsibility and accountability for your actions. Has nothing to do with age or maturity. I am definitely in the camp of one and done when it comes to DUIs. That would be the #1 rule in my Home Brew Club, no DUIs, period.

It definitely sucks to be put in this position, but for your reputation, for the sake of the club, and for the sake of homebrewing in general, this situation needs to be nipped in the bud asap. It doesn't take much bad PR these days to get the government to start taking broad action regardless of a few bad apples. All you need is some MADD group to get up in arms about this and the whole homebrewing community will be in danger. I think you know this and I am preaching to the choir, but it is a serious situation, especially with the way society is today.