Home Brew Club drunk problem

[Grinder12000]

We recently attended a large home brew fest and as you might imagine there is some heavy drinking.

One of our members became a bad drunk and starting picking fights back at the hotel and making inappropriate remarks to another clubs wives.

WELL - this did not sit well and since we still had our "colors" on everyone knew what club we were.

So what should be our action. Kick him out (he does have 2 DUI's). Letter of apology?

We strive to be a club that teaches brewing (not just drinking) so we're in uncharted territory.

Any comments would be appreciated

Treasurer
Sun Prairie Worthogs

 

[soccerdad]

I don't mean to get preachy in any way but there is a Biblical principal here that often works and is kind, generous, caring and grace filled.

A key club member needs to sit down quietly with the offender and explain to him how and why his behaviors have derailed him and risk derailing others. He needs to then be given the option of changing the behavior or leaving the club.

 

[Grinder12000]

THAT is my view soccerdad. Give him a chance to straighten things out!

 

[Hello]

I agree. Has anyone actually sat down and spoken to this guy? A letter of apology seems silly. What's that going to do really? He needs to fly right or leave. Home brewers don't need to have any stigma attached to them that the sole purpose of brewing is because we're all just a bunch of drunks. This one individual's actions and his choices in life should not represent any one group but based on the limited information provided, it appears as though this individual may not be fully aware of himself. At least not on the same level as others in your group. Give him a helping hand to see how his actions have brought some concerns to club members and their spouses.

I would speak to him. I wouldn't ask him to write a letter of apology, it seems like that's just a way to embarrass him without any positive outcome. If no one wishes to speak to him then that is on your club but then he should also go because he is a danger to himself if he is unable to handle his temper/emotions while drinking.

 

[Marc77]

To me it depends. Is this a one time thing (picking fights and the comments)? If not to me it's a pretty cut and dry case. I get that people get DUI's. Young and dumb, just made a bad decision etc. But after the first one 99.9% of the people that I'd associate with realize that their behavior needs to change. So a second one sends up warning flags. I don't know the guy so it's hard to say. But my wife had a friend that was a legitimate drunk and had 3 DUI's. I told her I wouldn't be around him and 2 years later he's finally grown up and changed his ways. Now when anyone gives him hell about DUI's he's embarrassed but says well, everyone was young and I can't change the past. So it's very situational.

With that said...I'd lean towards asking him to leave the club. Most home brewers I've met are laid back and cool about things. But, if I was in another club and I saw this guy back again with your "colors" on I wouldn't want anything to do with your club. It wouldn't be anything personal I just don't like putting myself in a situation where what you described could occur.

 

[NickTheGreat]

Unless you've already warned him, warn him and emphasize how thin the ice is.

I try to fight the stereotype of beer drinkers being more than just worthless drunks. We drink for the taste, the flavors, etc. But then jerks like him ruin that.

 

[flars]

In Wisconsin the first DUI gets you to Court mandated counseling. Counseling is not working. He has a problem and will be a problem for your club until he sobers up. I would not want this embarrassment around.
Don't wait until he kills someone on the highway.

 

[bajaedition]

I have lived through this problem

I used to be in a club, actually was the president of the club at 3 different times. We were a club of about 30 members, I consider members each brewer and his/her married partner. As the club grew we had several members grow that values the party more than the brew.
OK, I have nothing against a good party, but it seemed that after a while the club was having parties every weekend and these things went on for 10 hours or better.
and at beer fest, where we were there in colors, we had a few issues develop that did effect our reputation, but by then we were 50 members big and quite a few of us were winning bigger and bigger grew competitions etc. So we were able to sweep the issues under the table.
I got tired of it, left the club and just started brewing by myself and with a few friends, I would go to other clubs for meetings and retained my reputation as a brewer and not a drunk.
unfortunately, the club, because of the actions of the few who caused the problems we tried to sweep under the table, has a extremely bad reputations as a bunch of drunks who brew bad beer. But they have become that truthfully, most of the members who took it seriously have left. And the drunks rule and see no reason to police it. They have a "*(&^ them if they think that way about us" mentality now.
In the mean time I still get backlash because of it over 12 year later.

Another point you have to figure, Is you r club a legal club? has it incorporated? because if it has not, then the officers can be held legally responsible if a member has a wreck while drunk after attending a club event. And that means going to a brewing, a party, a meeting or a Brewfest as a club. The way to protect yourself is to incorporate making them have to sue the corporation, which is worth the treasury and no more.
There are special rules about non profit corps by the feds so you can do it easy and the states recognize them with their own laws.

Anyway, my recommendation is to cut off the source of the problem. People do not remember the good things you do, but they will remember the drunk, and next time he shows up with you guys, you will be all judged by his actions. It may seem harsh, but as I said I have been there, and nothing good is going come from having a problem drunk around. They do not change.

 

[endorphine44]

I think your group may need some membership rules related to criminal/drinking offenses. First time may be just a bad mistake, second time shows a serious lack of control and understanding of the situation. With the fighting on top of that he's going to give your group (and all of us) a bad name very quickly.

 

[PackerfaninSanDiego]

The guy has a drinking problem,,ya need to nip it in the bud.

 

[three_bags_full]

Dude has to go. Picking fights and making inappropriate comments to other members' wives is a headache you don't want. You have a duty to your club and its members -- not some drunk who can't control himself.

Someone with those maturity and judgment problems is going to cause you greater and greater problems in your club -- especially if he gets hammered at a club event and kills someone on the way home. You don't want that attention.

Club president and vice president get to sit down with him, refund him his dues and explain why he's being kicked out.

No questions asked. No second chances.

Buh-bye.

 

[finsfan]

I also agree he needs to be kicked out without any more "chances". He has clearly shown that he cant handle himself in a respectful manner, and I believe thats a MAJOR part of being part of a club. Picking fights and being derogatory to woman are probably two things that wont change anytime soon. Kick him out and dont look back.

 

[RmikeVT]

Does her normally over-serve himself and embarrass himself? Or was this a one time thing, where his drinking got a little ahead of him? I am guessing not because he has had 2 DUI's. Think about how you or your members would feel if this guy got all greased up at a club meeting/event drinking peoples' home brew and then went out and hurt himself or someone else.

 

[JonGrafto]

We recently attended a large home brew fest and as you might imagine there is some heavy drinking.

One of our members became a bad drunk and starting picking fights back at the hotel and making inappropriate remarks to another clubs wives.

WELL - this did not sit well and since we still had our "colors" on everyone knew what club we were.

So what should be our action. Kick him out (he does have 2 DUI's). Letter of apology?

We strive to be a club that teaches brewing (not just drinking) so we're in uncharted territory.

Any comments would be appreciated

Treasurer
Sun Prairie Worthogs

Hey Rod,

I didn't know that FDL BRewfest brought out the worst in people...

I would tend to agree with the rest. He has had opportunities to learn from his past and it is obvious that he doesn't have control of himself when he drinks. The president and VP should sit him down and explain why he cannot be associated with the club. (dues refunded are optional IMHO)

 

[crawforc3]

Whether or not you kick him out, offer some suggestions on where he can get help. You don't need to preach to him, but look up some local AA groups and just mention them. The community would be just as irresponsible by banishing him when it is a community that potentially enables his drinking problem.

 

[soccerdad]

I have to admit that I know little about how HBCs operate .. the whole 'dues,' and 'colors' thing is odd to me. I associate with a local club (and learn a great deal), but I am on the periphery as I am a stove top brewer and can't drag burners and kettles and chillers around when there is a 'brew day.' But there is a piece that I fear with the club as well and it will likely keep me in the outer circle. Our guys want to show the size of their manhood by 'brewing the biggest beer,' and when you sample 6 of those in the course of a brew day -- you should not drive home. I speak from personal experience. In one of the brew days I attended, I should NOT have driven home. No bad consequences, but regardless. There were probably 3 or 4 of us that should not have driven that day and the subject never came up. I know that we all want to say that we are not about drinking, rather we are about quality beer, but I take that with a grain of calcium carbonate. I think many people in many clubs play the 'my d%&k is bigger game' with ABV.

Rant over - back to the OP ... I assume the behavior at the brew fest is a first infraction. No? I think you are aware of the driving infractions but that they are not club related. Or am I wrong? I'm not big on one strike policies, but I have no beef with folks who are proponents of them.

 

[Calichusetts]

Boot him...

Sounds like a complete tool and the creepy guy at bars. Alcoholism is the escalation of consequences from drinking without changing the way you drink. Multiple DUIs, starting fights, creepy/starker stuff with women...enough said. If you take your club seriously, that dude is out.

 

[progmac]

i don't know how to solve the problem, but i love the name of your club!

 

[GarageDweller]

WTH is the point of grown men joining a 'club' anyways? I guess some people lack originality and have the need to "belong". Of course, mob mentality brings up other problems when there's drinking involved. Maybe you should have said something while he was causing trouble; instead of getting on the internet and asking a bunch of strangers what another stranger's fate should be, based on incredibly little background details.

groupies....

 

[Remmy]

Sounds like someone needs an old-fashioned punch in the face.

 

[RonPopeil]

I don't mean to get preachy in any way but there is a Biblical principal here that often works and is kind, generous, caring and grace filled.

A key club member needs to sit down quietly with the offender and explain to him how and why his behaviors have derailed him and risk derailing others. He needs to then be given the option of changing the behavior or leaving the club.

This. Give him a chance to do the right thing. You probably should have that letter written though. Regardless of how things are handled internally I'd imagine there's some wounds on the other side.

 

[progmac]

WTH is the point of grown men joining a 'club' anyways? I guess some people lack originality and have the need to "belong". Of course, mob mentality brings up other problems when there's drinking involved. Maybe you should have said something while he was causing trouble; instead of getting on the internet and asking a bunch of strangers what another stranger's fate should be, based on incredibly little background details.

groupies....

not so much "some people" as "humans." we are a very group-oriented species. i imagine you claim allegiance to a number of different groups, though they may not be labeled "clubs"

 

[unionrdr]

I never understood why some people get a bad temper when they drink. I'm a laid-back kinda drunk. I drink to relax,enjoy the taste of the beer,etc. Some folks are fine till they drink,then they're like instant a-hole,just add alcohol. I like shots of vodka with my beer,since it's sorta nutral & doesn't effect the taste of the beer much. I'm typicaly laid back with that combo. but when I add whiskey or bourbon to the equasion,the next day my wife tells me what I said or did. Imo,it's usually when I'm getting buzzed,& someone decides to rattle my monkey cage. But just when I drink whiskey or bourbon with beer. Vodka & I'm fine.
So maybe it's not just the volume he drank,but some combination that effects him in a bad way? But with 2 DUI's,he does seem to have a control problem. Talk to him about it or cut him loose with an explanation. I've never been in a club,as I'm limited to the stove myself. Just thought I'd give my 2c worth.

 

[bajaedition]

WTH is the point of grown men joining a 'club' anyways? I guess some people lack originality and have the need to "belong". Of course, mob mentality brings up other problems when there's drinking involved. Maybe you should have said something while he was causing trouble; instead of getting on the internet and asking a bunch of strangers what another stranger's fate should be, based on incredibly little background details.

groupies....

this entire hobby has grown because of clubs
back when I started one of the few ways to even find out about brewing was clubs, clubs supported some garage shop home brew supply that depended on the 20 guys in that club to stay open. A lot of the equipment and methods we use today were developed by clubs looking for ways to brew beer.
I can remember the day we actually found out there was ways to brew beer besides pre hopped kits in a can.
Clubs have proven to be a vital part of this hobby.

Shame is, a guy like this will taint the way the public looks at clubs. They never remember the good a club does, just the guy coming from the club that caused 4 kids to lose their lives. We are already under the gun because of the alcohol. The guy already has 2 DUIs, he knows he has a problem, and he is hanging around guys who allow him to drink.

Face one fact. If he has had 2 DUIs, the state has provided him with more opportunity to get a grip than the club ever will

The reason he is there is so he can drink and no one tells him to stop. He has a drinking problem so a homebrew club, that makes beer, is his way of saying he has no problem, all these guys do it.

I guarantee, when he is approached he will point out every person who left an event tipsy, or anyone who has said even one thing that was not PC.

WHY? because he is in denial. If he could handle his drinking he would not even drink. Or he would drink at home where he could get no DUIs and if he said something, you could leave.

 

[beernutz]

In Wisconsin the first DUI gets you to Court mandated counseling. Counseling is not working. He has a problem and will be a problem for your club until he sobers up. I would not want this embarrassment around.
Don't wait until he kills someone on the highway.

While wearing your club's colors.

 

[CrystalShip]

WTH is the point of grown men joining a 'club' anyways? I guess some people lack originality and have the need to "belong". Of course, mob mentality brings up other problems when there's drinking involved. Maybe you should have said something while he was causing trouble; instead of getting on the internet and asking a bunch of strangers what another stranger's fate should be, based on incredibly little background details.

groupies....

Interesting. Instead of contributing useful advice, you go on a tirade about homebrew clubs. You sound angry...what's the matter? Did you get booted from a club for being an angry drunk too?

 

[CrystalShip]

I would give the guy another chance. Have an informal chat with him about what happened. Was this the first time he embarassed your club and himself in public?

 

[NervousDad]

getting drunk is one thing, starting fights that's a different story. kick him out, sounds like he has a drinking problem and needs help anyway...

 

[highgravitybacon]

WELL - this did not sit well and since we still had our "colors" on everyone knew what club we were.

Is he a prospect or full patch member? Have the sergeant at arms make him to turn in the keys to the motorcycle, leave the blackjack, the boot knife, and then escort him out of club territory and tell him to never come back. Make him turn in his colors.

 

[Schumed]

I think your group may need some membership rules related to criminal/drinking offenses. First time may be just a bad mistake, second time shows a serious lack of control and understanding of the situation. With the fighting on top of that he's going to give your group (and all of us) a bad name very quickly.

This....if rules/ expectations were not in place makes it hard to kick him out

 

[fartinmartin]

Some guys just shouldn't drink. I once worked in sales and some entertainment evenings would get out of hand, if the customers got stupid we would try to defuse and then forget about it, as employees we could get as blotto as can be, but cross the line, be stupid, just the once, it for sure won't be happening again.
Once identified, some guys shouldn't drink , sorry , end of !

 

[NickTheGreat]

WTH is the point of grown men joining a 'club' anyways? I guess some people lack originality and have the need to "belong". Of course, mob mentality brings up other problems when there's drinking involved. Maybe you should have said something while he was causing trouble; instead of getting on the internet and asking a bunch of strangers what another stranger's fate should be, based on incredibly little background details.

groupies....

You mean besides forums. Right? RIGHT?!? :cross:

 

[00p]

I think someone else said something similar, but now I can't find the post. I would definitely look at your state's dram shop statutes, which will address the liability of a person or legal entity serving alcohol to an individual who the causes some harm while intoxicated. I'm not in a brew club, but I sure wouldn't want to be sued because someone got drunk at my house and got in a wreck.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[blizzard]

I would have to know the guy to decide whether or not he should get another chance, but I think that you know the answer.

That said, I think two things should definitely happen.

1. Limit the liability of the club and its members. If that means incorporating the club, or booting him (have good records), or taking his colors, you owe that to the group as one of its officials.

2. Apologize to the other group. I don't think you should make him write a letter. We're all adults here; he should do what he thinks is right. But on behalf of your group, I think you need to extend an olive branch to the other group. Let them know you are sorry a member got out of hand, you are working on fixing it, and that you are a bunch of good people and not a bunch of drunks. I think a phone call would be fine, but in person (over a beer with their president) might be even better.

 

[Grinder12000]

OK - "colors" - we have some pretty sweet bowling style shirts with our logo on the back and name on the front.

Clubs - we TEACH you how to brew, discuss water, yeast have contests have speakers coming in and so forth. NOT a drinking club (but there is a fair amount of drinking).

In Wisconsin seems you can have 10 DUI's before people start taking notice then they take your license away which does not really slow you done. Also the rules for injuring someone while drunk are pretty relaxed in WI - we are getting insurance and becoming LLC. Heck our per barrel tax is $2 for breweries. LOL

I guess this is his 2nd problem - seems he was tossed out of a bar after a club meeting for drinking others beer and eating their food (I was not their).

Great conversation - I love hearing both sides and why.

My problem is at the moment our clubs bylaws do not have anything on this so we need to address it. We've been growing every year so it's part of growing pains I guess.


Sun Prairie WortHogs

 

[Bobby_M]

I've been in my club's leadership group as president, secretary, and now just a board member for several years and I'm quite sure a disruptive ass would be out. Done and done. If he kills himself on the road after one of your meetings or events, his next of kin can and will sue the hell out of your officers for over serving him.

 

[BigSumpin]

Usually only the happy/sloppy drunk will listen if you have a talk with em'
The obnoxious/violent ones never listen...

 

[Rhumbline]

I'm in the boot him out club. I also think your club needs some guidelines concerning responsible drinking when there's a public event.

You don't need a rule that says "don't hit on another guy's wife" but you need something.

 

[passedpawn]

Kick him out. That behavior will repeat itself. Don't kid yourself here.

 

[mattd2]

I would give the guy another chance. Have an informal chat with him about what happened. Was this the first time he embarassed your club and himself in public?

Make that a formal chat - this is a serious matter and needs to be address formally

I would have to know the guy to decide whether or not he should get another chance, but I think that you know the answer.

That said, I think two things should definitely happen.

1. Limit the liability of the club and its members. If that means incorporating the club, or booting him (have good records), or taking his colors, you owe that to the group as one of its officials.

2. Apologize to the other group. I don't think you should make him write a letter. We're all adults here; he should do what he thinks is right. But on behalf of your group, I think you need to extend an olive branch to the other group. Let them know you are sorry a member got out of hand, you are working on fixing it, and that you are a bunch of good people and not a bunch of drunks. I think a phone call would be fine, but in person (over a beer with their president) might be even better.

I fully agree, tell the guy that he has upset the other club but do not force him to apologise - but the club leadership need to apologise and explain what is being done to adress this.

...
My problem is at the moment our clubs bylaws do not have anything on this so we need to address it. We've been growing every year so it's part of growing pains I guess...

This....if rules/ expectations were not in place makes it hard to kick him out

Take this as an oppertunity to set down the rules. And also sit down and formally tell him he is on notice for his behavour, tell him the clubs purpose is for the promotion of homebrewing, not drinking and his behavoiur is damaging the clubs public image. Let him know in no uncertain terms that if he overindulges again during a club event or has any other problems with the police/local bars that involve drunkeness that he will be kicked out. And offer him the chance to leave the club with his annual dues fully refunded if he doesn't want to change his ways - I would rather absolutly no ties with the guy if he doesn't want to change than keep a few dollars of his money.

Good luck!