Hit The Jack Pot so I'm Moving to Kegging

[Bigarcherynut]

Well after over 6 years of bottling I'm making the move to kegging. Just 2 week ago, with the help of my wife, bottled up a batch of Buffalo Sweat Oatmeal Stout clone. She asked me then about kegging and pros and cons. She liked the idea she wouldn't have to help. Lol!!

Well she planted the seed and I check the local sale sights for corny kegs and other equipment and also priced new. Wow, looked to be a pricey adventure. Last Thursday, as I have ever day, checked the sites on-line and found the perfect listing. The husband took a new job out of state and the hurried up move for them was on. He had decided to sell his entire brewing system. I was able to buy what I thought was his kegging equipment. After some negotiation I made my offer and they accepted. Caught this right at the perfect time. I made arrangements to drive the 120 miles the next morning early to buy and load up my new system. During our conversation the night before she mentioned the kegerator was still in the basement. Kegerator???? Come to find out the setup up was not like the posted picture. The system ended up being, 3 Ball Lock kegs in great shape and holding pressure, 5 lb. CO2 tank, Dual regulator, 2 tapper faucets with shanks and lines, 2 picnic style tappers lines and connects, a full tube of Keg Lube and yes a full size frig for his kegerator. All the equipment except the frig was 4 years old. All this for $200. I'm so happy for the find and excited to get kegging. Not sure what to do with the 500+ bottles, 3 cases of Grolsch bottles green and brown and other assorted styles and sizes I have acquired.

Now I've been reading and watching videos on kegging and thought, this is easy. Like everything else the complicated question and answers to peoples questions appeared on this site and others. Wow, is it really complicated? So many different ways to clean and sanitize, selecting the proper way to carb you beer, serving pressures, WHAT line length and calculators for this. Well this feels like when I started brewing, over whelming but that turned out fine.

Here's a few things I'm starting with and also questions that are most likely posted but hoping you'll answer. Very open to your views and knowledge on kegging.

1. Being a clean freak I cleaned everything I bought when I got home. I disassembled the kegs, valves and line sets and washed them in Oxy-Clean and triple rinsed them. I did not sterilize with Star Stan at this time because I'm not ready to use the system. Should I sanitize prior to storage after washing it?

2. What I saw on kegging from Northern Brewer video is, clean, sanitize keg , lines and fittings and fill the keg with your fill tube on bottom and avoid splashing. Cover and add CO2 charge and purge 2-3 times. Then select method to carb up your beer. Sounds straight forward but I have read way more elaborate methods.

3. Have plenty to read on carb up methods, delivery pressure and carb rates for each style. Should come in time but suggestions appreciated. One question that comes to mind is, if I carb up a stout, It has a level of 1.7 - 2.3. Lets say I use the quicker method like some mention of setting my pressure to 30 lbs. for 12-24 hours. Reduce pressure and test your beer. I would assume if it's under carbed you go longer. So is it to my liking that I carb it to?? No way to measure it is there? Is there a common delivery pressure or is that specific to each style of beer? Thanks

4. liquid line length. Read some and downloaded a calculator. If each beer is different how do you deal with that for line length or is it pretty close to the same for each variety of beer?

5. Location of the CO2 bottle and gauge set. Inside the kegerator or outside? I would think inside would keep the pressure consistent due to less temperature fluctuation. Not sure.

Feels like overload right now but I know it will come as did going from extract to all grain brewing. I know I'll have more questions.

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.

Happy brewing,
Bill

 

[NGD]

Here's a few things I'm starting with and also questions that are most likely posted but hoping you'll answer. Very open to your views and knowledge on kegging.

1. Being a clean freak I cleaned everything I bought when I got home. I disassembled the kegs, valves and line sets and washed them in Oxy-Clean and triple rinsed them. I did not sterilize with Star Stan at this time because I'm not ready to use the system. Should I sanitize prior to storage after washing it?

2. What I saw on kegging from Northern Brewer video is, clean, sanitize keg , lines and fittings and fill the keg with your fill tube on bottom and avoid splashing. Cover and add CO2 charge and purge 2-3 times. Then select method to carb up your beer. Sounds straight forward but I have read way more elaborate methods.

3. Have plenty to read on carb up methods, delivery pressure and carb rates for each style. Should come in time but suggestions appreciated. One question that comes to mind is, if I carb up a stout, It has a level of 1.7 - 2.3. Lets say I use the quicker method like some mention of setting my pressure to 30 lbs. for 12-24 hours. Reduce pressure and test your beer. I would assume if it's under carbed you go longer. So is it to my liking that I carb it to?? No way to measure it is there? Is there a common delivery pressure or is that specific to each style of beer? Thanks

4. liquid line length. Read some and downloaded a calculator. If each beer is different how do you deal with that for line length or is it pretty close to the same for each variety of beer?

5. Location of the CO2 bottle and gauge set. Inside the kegerator or outside? I would think inside would keep the pressure consistent due to less temperature fluctuation. Not sure.

Feels like overload right now but I know it will come as did going from extract to all grain brewing. I know I'll have more questions.

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.

Happy brewing,
Bill

1. I think you can go either route. More than likely you will still want to sanitize right before adding beer anyway. IMO its more important to pick a method and stick with it. If you haven’t done so, grab a tube of keg lube and hit those seals every time.

2. Yep! Don’t overthink it. You can also fill through the top after you’ve purged, but you do have more chance of oxygenation.

3. Personally I prefer to set and forget. If you do decide to burst carb, make sure to chill your beer for at least 24hrs prior. CO2 goes into cold solution much better than warm.

4. Can’t help much here. Definitely make sure the air around the taps is consistent with the bottom of the kegerator. If you have tower..then a tower chill will save you quite a bit of foaming on that first pour

5. Doesn’t matter from my experience unless you like to use the tank pressure gauge to determine how much CO2 you have left. Once the tank chills it will appear like you’ve lost several hundred pounds of pressure.

Check around the kegging forums, theres ton of info..and likely if its a question you have its already been answered. Just double check everything for leaks on gas and liquid side before you walk away.

Sounds like an awesome score. Best of luck with it!

 

[grampamark]

Congrats on a major score!

Kegging ain’t rocket surgery, but, as with anything new, there is a learning curve.

Since your kegs are new to you I’d suggest buying some o-ring kits and some universal poppets. Change everything and put a piece of tape on the side of each keg with the date. That way you won't have to guess how old the parts which are most likely to leak are.

When I clean kegs (I have more than I need. I rinse a keg out as soon as it kicks and then have "cleaning day" when I’ve got at least three to do). I use Oxi-Clean and then I run the soap solution through all my taps. Same with the rinse water (triple rinse). I follow that with Starsan. That way I’ve cleaned everything (I disassemble the faucets and clean and lube them at the same time). I also remove the liquid out post and poppet. There is usually some trub or hop debris stuck in that one. When finished, l pressurize the sanitized kegs and put them back in the rotation. If the next clean keg I grab has lost pressure I’ll know I have to find a leak, which is easier to address before the keg is full.

The rule of thumb for beer lines is 1 ft of 3/16” ID tubing per psi of serving pressure. I use 10’ of line per keg and serve at 10 psi. That's a good compromise for a variety of styles. If you want to set each keg pressure individually individual regulators are around 40-50 bucks apiece.

There are a bunch of carbonation charts online; they all show the same range, based on temp and desired level of carb, so just pick one. I force carb at 30 psi for 48 hours and then dial it back to serving pressure. By day 4 or 5 I have beer that I’m happy with. Set and forget works, too, just takes longer. It's all a matter of personal preference.

My tank and regulator are outside the fridge because I have a 20 lb bottle and it takes up the space of a keg. Before I added the third tap I had the bottle inside; I’ve never noticed any difference.

Good luck. You'll probably never want to bottle again if you're like most of us.

 

[TechFanMD]

You have great advice here on kegging - so I'll comment on your bottle supply. Don't get rid of the swingtops, and keep some regular bottles around. First thing you know you're going to want to brew a bourbon barrel RIS, a strong belgian, barleywine, or something that is either too 'big' to drink more than 1-2 a week or something that meets that criteria and could benefit from long ageing.

I keg my IPAs, cream ales, etc. but bottle the slow drinking stuff. For my Bourbon Barrel Porter, I kegged half and bottled half. While it was good in the keg and I could have gone through it....it's nice to have the bottled stuff ageing out of the way.

If you brew very often, and kegging will allow more time to brew, you'll find that you wish you had more room in your kegerator.....and may find yourself annoyed when a 'slow moving' beer is taking up room Also, in some cases you may want to bottle some for sharing or traveling with.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

1. I think you can go either route. More than likely you will still want to sanitize right before adding beer anyway. IMO its more important to pick a method and stick with it. If you haven’t done so, grab a tube of keg lube and hit those seals every time.

2. Yep! Don’t overthink it. You can also fill through the top after you’ve purged, but you do have more chance of oxygenation.

3. Personally I prefer to set and forget. If you do decide to burst carb, make sure to chill your beer for at least 24hrs prior. CO2 goes into cold solution much better than warm.

4. Can’t help much here. Definitely make sure the air around the taps is consistent with the bottom of the kegerator. If you have tower..then a tower chill will save you quite a bit of foaming on that first pour

5. Doesn’t matter from my experience unless you like to use the tank pressure gauge to determine how much CO2 you have left. Once the tank chills it will appear like you’ve lost several hundred pounds of pressure.

Check around the kegging forums, theres ton of info..and likely if its a question you have its already been answered. Just double check everything for leaks on gas and liquid side before you walk away.

Sounds like an awesome score. Best of luck with it!

Thanks NGD. Got lube so I'll make sure to do that. WantWa sure about sanitizing before storage but guess it doesn't hurt. Got you on the pressure reading being low if stored inside. Will watch and read more about this.

Thanks.
Bill

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Congrats on a major score!


Kegging ain’t rocket surgery, but, as with anything new, there is a learning curve.

Since your kegs are new to you I’d suggest buying some o-ring kits and some universal poppets. Change everything and put a piece of tape on the side of each keg with the date. That way you won't have to guess how old the parts which are most likely to leak are.

When I clean kegs (I have more than I need. I rinse a keg out as soon as it kicks and then have "cleaning day" when I’ve got at least three to do). I use Oxi-Clean and then I run the soap solution through all my taps. Same with the rinse water (triple rinse). I follow that with Starsan. That way I’ve cleaned everything (I disassemble the faucets and clean and lube them at the same time). I also remove the liquid out post and poppet. There is usually some trub or hop debris stuck in that one. When finished, l pressurize the sanitized kegs and put them back in the rotation. If the next clean keg I grab has lost pressure I’ll know I have to find a leak, which is easier to address before the keg is full.

The rule of thumb for beer lines is 1 ft of 3/16” ID tubing per psi of serving pressure. I use 10’ of line per keg and serve at 10 psi. That's a good compromise for a variety of styles. If you want to set each keg pressure individually individual regulators are around 40-50 bucks apiece.

There are a bunch of carbonation charts online; they all show the same range, based on temp and desired level of carb, so just pick one. I force carb at 30 psi for 48 hours and then dial it back to serving pressure. By day 4 or 5 I have beer that I’m happy with. Set and forget works, too, just takes longer. It's all a matter of personal preference.

My tank and regulator are outside the fridge because I have a 20 lb bottle and it takes up the space of a keg. Before I added the third tap I had the bottle inside; I’ve never noticed any difference.

Good luck. You'll probably never want to bottle again if you're like most of us.

Congrats on a major score!

Thanks for your input. I did disassemble all my tanks and even though the O rings and seals appear in good shape and are not hard and cracked, it would be good insurance to start with new ones.

I like your cleaning and storage process. Always ready to go and pressure tested. Great idea.

As for the lines mine are 1/4" and I'm going to replace them. The taps have 1/4" barbed find so I'll stay with that size unless 3/16" is better. Could be adapted to get to the smaller size.

So it sounds like carb rates are up to the individual. I guess it's try it and find what I prefer. Sounds like a plan.

Thanks,
Bill

 

[grampamark]

It's not hard to fit 3/16" tubing over a 1/4" barb. Soak the end of the tube in hot water or (carefully) heat it with a hair dryer. If your shanks have removeable tailpiece nuts holding the barb in place the replacement barbs in the desired size are cheap (some shanks have the hose barb machined into the end of the shank; those are the kind that require a little persuasion to fit the next size smaller tubing).

The idea behind balancing a pressurized serving system is to keep the Co2 in solution with the beer. This is usually done by setting up the system to keep the beer working against backpressure. That's the reason for using longer, smaller diameter beer line. It prevents getting a big head on top of under carbed beer.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

It's not hard to fit 3/16" tubing over a 1/4" barb. Soak the end of the tube in hot water or (carefully) heat it with a hair dryer. If your shanks have removeable tailpiece nuts holding the barb in place the replacement barbs in the desired size are cheap (some shanks have the hose barb machined into the end of the shank; those are the kind that require a little persuasion to fit the next size smaller tubing).

The idea behind balancing a pressurized serving system is to keep the Co2 in solution with the beer. This is usually done by setting up the system to keep the beer working against backpressure. That's the reason for using longer, smaller diameter beer line. It prevents getting a big head on top of under carbed beer.

My barbed fittings appear to be pressed into the shanks. I'll look at getting 3/16" line over the 1/4".

Thanks . Another issue resoled.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

You have great advice here on kegging - so I'll comment on your bottle supply. Don't get rid of the swingtops, and keep some regular bottles around. First thing you know you're going to want to brew a bourbon barrel RIS, a strong belgian, barleywine, or something that is either too 'big' to drink more than 1-2 a week or something that meets that criteria and could benefit from long ageing.

I keg my IPAs, cream ales, etc. but bottle the slow drinking stuff. For my Bourbon Barrel Porter, I kegged half and bottled half. While it was good in the keg and I could have gone through it....it's nice to have the bottled stuff ageing out of the way.

If you brew very often, and kegging will allow more time to brew, you'll find that you wish you had more room in your kegerator.....and may find yourself annoyed when a 'slow moving' beer is taking up room Also, in some cases you may want to bottle some for sharing or traveling with.

Thanks for your advice. I'm getting into bourbon Stouts. I have done one last march and found it did get much better with time.

With that said, can you fill a 5 gallon keg half full without any issues with creating off flavors from O2 being introduced into the keg?

I did get a plastic conical Fermentasaurus fermenter this Christmas. I had some issues with the original unit but that has been resolved. I can now ferment under pressure and transfer to a keg under pressure. I have not bought the option pressure top but now that I have gotten the equipment to keg may need to move up to fermenting under pressure and closed transfer under pressure.

Getting more excited to get things going.

Thanks,
Bill

 

[TechFanMD]

Thanks for your advice. I'm getting into bourbon Stouts. I have done one last march and found it did get much better with time.

With that said, can you fill a 5 gallon keg half full without any issues with creating off flavors from O2 being introduced into the keg?

I did get a plastic conical Fermentasaurus fermenter this Christmas. I had some issues with the original unit but that has been resolved. I can now ferment under pressure and transfer to a keg under pressure. I have not bought the option pressure top but now that I have gotten the equipment to keg may need to move up to fermenting under pressure and closed transfer under pressure.

Getting more excited to get things going.

Thanks,
Bill

If you purge well enough you'll be fine with that headspace. If you fill with sanitizer and use CO2 to push the sanitzier out...there is virtually no O2.

What I did was purge the keg with CO2, fill, then bottled off of the keg so that the headspace got backfilled with CO2. I have an extra liquid out quick disconnect (QD) with a short run of tubing and a bottle filler on the other end (I do have a valve in between just in case but really not needed since you could quickly remove the QD if something went wrong)....so this at ~2-3psi. Note: I did this still (no carbonation) then used carb tabs in the bottles.

 

[brew703]

I would replace all the tubing for new stuff. I went with Bev Seal Ultra (very stiff) and John Guess Fittings. The JG Fittings makes for easy connections.
I have my Co2 tank mounted outside but I have a keezer and didn't want to take up the space inside.

When I first started kegging, it was definitely a learning experience. But now that I've been doing it for 2 yrs I would never go back to bottling. I had about 10 cases of bottles. Finally got rid of them all.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

I do need to replace the lines that came with the system. Been reading on the Bev Seal Ultra and like everything, has mixed reviews but leaning towards it.

 

[TechFanMD]

For plumbed lines it doesn't make much difference - but for picnic tap lines, I prefer a tubing that is not stuff - it makes putting the tap back how you want it easier, and makes it easier to orient the tap how you need it for a pour. I have one picnic tap line that is way too stiff and it is a total PITA

 

[madscientist451]

Keep your eye out for more used stuff. A 20lb refill is way cheaper per pound than the 5 lb tank. You'll still want the small tank for inside your fridge, but the bigger tank can be used when initially carbing your beer and purging.
Don't toss those Grolsh bottles, you may one day want to make some mead or barley wine, or RIS that can benefit from extended aging.
500 regular bottles is somewhat excessive, if there is a brew club nearby, you might get someone to take them.
I also bought used equipment from a guy who was moving, I got a low price and it even came with 1/2 keg of really good stout. I could have gotten a free chest freezer, but couldn't fit it in my Prius.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

I'm thinking you're right on the 20 lb. Tank. With all the tank purging I think the 5lb. Tank will go fast. Planning on doing a Backwoods Bastard clone for next fall so I'll bottle that but can scale back on bottles.

 

[TechFanMD]

I'm thinking you're right on the 20 lb. Tank. With all the tank purging I think the 5lb. Tank will go fast. Planning on doing a Backwoods Bastard clone for next fall so I'll bottle that but can scale back on bottles.

@madscientist451 gives good advice here on the 20lb tank....but it isn't a cheaper route for a lot of us - make sure you have someplace to fill a 20lb cylinder first. It only saves money if you don't have to drive an hour+ each way to get it done. It's worth checking who will fill what, and the price, how far are they from you, and how much swaps are nearby.

My personal preference is having a few 5lb cylinders. Once once is too low to carb and serve, I use it for purging until it is empty. This way I always have a fresh one on hand.

This is especially nice because the places to fill aren't local to me, and are only open when I am at work - so it is hard to find time to get it done. My LHBS does swaps for $25, which is pricey, but I sometimes do it because I just can't get the fill done when I need it. Also, when a tank has an expired test date - it is cheaper for me to just do the swap for $25 and get a full tank with a current test.

Also, don't buy a brand new tank ($$$) if you're going to end up swapping - because you're going to get a more beat up tank in return anyway.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

@madscientist451 gives good advice here on the 20lb tank....but it isn't a cheaper route for a lot of us - make sure you have someplace to fill a 20lb cylinder first. It only saves money if you don't have to drive an hour+ each way to get it done. It's worth checking who will fill what, and the price, how far are they from you, and how much swaps are nearby.

My personal preference is having a few 5lb cylinders. Once once is too low to carb and serve, I use it for purging until it is empty. This way I always have a fresh one on hand.

This is especially nice because the places to fill aren't local to me, and are only open when I am at work - so it is hard to find time to get it done. My LHBS does swaps for $25, which is pricey, but I sometimes do it because I just can't get the fill done when I need it. Also, when a tank has an expired test date - it is cheaper for me to just do the swap for $25 and get a full tank with a current test.

Also, don't buy a brand new tank ($$$) if you're going to end up swapping - because you're going to get a more beat up tank in return anyway.

Fortunately I have a place close and my tank was expired so what they had me do was a replacement but with a Test charge included. As long as my tank I exchange is not expired the fill charge is $19.95. Definitely what I need to do.

Thanks