Hit a snag on an unusual cyser batch...

[DevonSun]

So I've been working on my own cyser recipe with great results using locally sourced jungle honey. I live in SE Asia n get raw honey from a local apiary (Asiatic honeybees making yummy liquid gold from jungle flowers). The other day though, 2 kilos arrived that were pressurized from within. From everything I could find online, the general consensus of the honey forums was that the honey was likely sitting for a long time and had started fermenting a bit. It did have a very subtle yeast note as well. I debated getting a refund n just thought, eh, screw it. Let the farmer keep his coin n I'll see what happens. Started fine but seems stuck 2 weeks later. It should be done fermenting but the SG ain't near what I was expecting n it still tastes quite a bitter sweeter (and with very little alcohol notes) than it should. There's some unusual flavor too that, I may dare to say, is possibly a slight banana note

Here's the notes. Lemme know if anyone has some tips or ideals on how to get 'er goin again

Average daily room temp range 26-30C
OG: 1.1178
SG now: 1.0672
Batch is approximately 2kg of raw honey, 2L of apple juice, n 2L of water
Yeast: Lalvin EC-1118 (savior of the tropics!)

As mentioned, the honey was odd (we've been callin this batch Cyser Funk hahaha), I'm just wondering if we could get more outta it or should I just rerack n let 'er be?


Skol!

 

[madscientist451]

Any nutrients added? Have you been de-gassing the mead over the last two weeks?

 

[bernardsmith]

Do you know the pH of this cyser. Honey has no buffers and the pH can sometimes drop so low that yeast cannot ferment anything. The apple juice might help but it might not.

 

[DevonSun]

Any nutrients added? Have you been de-gassing the mead over the last two weeks?

DAP on day one n again 2 days after. Rockin it in a standard glass carboy with airlock

Do you know the pH of this cyser. Honey has no buffers and the pH can sometimes drop so low that yeast cannot ferment anything. The apple juice might help but it might not.

Sadly don't have a way to test this (a theory I could do naught but guess on lol) and I wasn't sure which way it would go lol

 

[madscientist451]

DAP on day one n again 2 days after. Rockin it in a standard glass carboy with airlock

How much DAP? Also, what exactly does "Rockin it" mean? Is that swirling the carboy in some way?

 

[DevonSun]

How much DAP? Also, what exactly does "Rockin it" mean? Is that swirling the carboy in some way?

Hahahaha my bad, by "rockin it" I just mean "having it be" not any sort of action. 2g of DAP a time (one with the yeast, the other 2 days later)

 

[madscientist451]

I'd swrirl the carboy (don't shake it) a few times a day to try to rouse that yeast, perhaps give it anonther 1g of DAP if you see activity.

 

[DevonSun]

Cheers. I'll give it a shot n see if we get some changes

 

[B29]

Did the apple juice have preservatives of any kind?

 

[PantherEnjoyer]

hey,

It seems unlikely that honey should start fermenting on its own. They have found honey that is hundreds and even thousands of years old. It should be so viscous and have such little water content, that its not possible for anything to grow.

Unless it was diluted with water or other sugar syrups (some farmers dilute slightly with water and sugar to boost volume)

Banana off flavours would lead me to think the yeast are stressed. Also, 2kg of honey in 4 litres is pretty high OG.

Apple juice averages 1.050 by itself. Add 2kgs honey and 2L water and the OG was probably quite high. Quick gotmead calc puts it at 1.169

Did you pitch dry, or rehydrate? You really should be step feeding honey with an OG that high.

 

[DevonSun]

Did the apple juice have preservatives of any kind?

A bit maybe, but it's never had any effect on the others I did, so I'm assuming they're on the low end. The key difference of this batch was something being odd with the honey (apparently starting fermenting on it's own).

hey,

It seems unlikely that honey should start fermenting on its own. They have found honey that is hundreds and even thousands of years old. It should be so viscous and have such little water content, that its not possible for anything to grow.

Unless it was diluted with water or other sugar syrups (some farmers dilute slightly with water and sugar to boost volume)

Banana off flavours would lead me to think the yeast are stressed. Also, 2kg of honey in 4 litres is pretty high OG.

Apple juice averages 1.050 by itself. Add 2kgs honey and 2L water and the OG was probably quite high. Quick gotmead calc puts it at 1.169

Did you pitch dry, or rehydrate? You really should be step feeding honey with an OG that high.

I believed the same thing about honey as well until i started talking with people on apiary forums. Apparently it has a lot to do with the humidity of an area (and I live in the tropics and the wet season just ended). The moisture in the air when the container is filled (these containers are about 2/3 full of honey) can be enough to allow for fermentation. This is also how you can have pure raw honey that ants will eat. The moisture dilutes the honey just enough that they can get at it. Granted, this is all second hand info, but I have a tendency to believe bee farmers about honey lol

I pitched dry, and have always done so, so that's a great point to think about. As mentioned, my OG was 1.1178.


As for a general update, had no love from swirls n some extra DAP after a few days n since the flavor was off (wasn't any banana notes when I actually swirled a good shot in the mouth but something was odd about it), we decided to toss it in the still n find out what brandymead would taste like. Came out decent enough so I tossed some oak chips in a jar n am gonna let'r age away.
The leftover "wash' smelled pretty decent n so I took a lil taste (something I never would've done with my rum washes). Was yummy enough to toss some cinnamon sticks in the batch n put it in the fridge as a nice low alchy apple drink so... win-win?

 

[PantherEnjoyer]

Well that's a win!

Maybe next time try stepfeeding the honey in 3 or so batches, to help the yeast acclimatise to the environment. Bakes yeast and high sugar content doesn't go well!

Have you tried Joes Ancient Orange Mead as a bakers yeast recipe? It can turn out pretty good

 

[DevonSun]

Well that's a win!

Maybe next time try stepfeeding the honey in 3 or so batches, to help the yeast acclimatise to the environment. Bakes yeast and high sugar content doesn't go well!

Have you tried Joes Ancient Orange Mead as a bakers yeast recipe? It can turn out pretty good

As mentioned in the original post, I'm using Lalvin EC-1118. I'm not fond of the off flavors I've found in baker's yeast in a mead (although it's just fine for making a rum was hahaha)