Hill Farmstead thread

[Jnorton00]

Such a conundrum... It's a huge risk not protecting that word, but man does that look terribly unfortunate. Completely undermines the authenticity of the brand in an effort to protect it. Worth it? Tough to say...

I just think it looks super douchey. It's not like he invented the word or anything. Trademark law is ridiculous. Also shocked it took 20+ minutes for a reply and no white knights defending Shaun and attacking me yet.

 

[matt_6]

I just think it looks super douchey. It's not like he invented the word or anything. Trademark law is ridiculous. Also shocked it took 20+ minutes for a reply and no white knights defending Shaun and attacking me yet.

Im going to trademark the word "hill"

 

[SecretSquirrel]

looks like it went live on May 29th hasn't TM'd very long, lol

 

[drgarage1]

Im going to trademark the word "hill"

Just makes my satire computer series of saisons, Maine Framestead, that much funnier.

 

[Gene1]

I just think it looks super douchey. It's not like he invented the word or anything. Trademark law is ridiculous. Also shocked it took 20+ minutes for a reply and no white knights defending Shaun and attacking me yet.

Trademark law is indeed ridiculous, but it is what it is. If they don't want "Bill's Farmstead" brewing his own "Farmstead Ale" then they've got to protect it. (More realistically: If they don't want Goose Island brewing their own Farmstead Ale, they've got to protect it.) Unfortunately, despite what we highly intelligent and passionate beer consumers may assume, there IS a huge risk of customer confusion if and when that happens. HF does not want people thinking they've tried their products when in fact it's someone else's (possibly ****) beer. Not only that, but a well-protected mark that describes an entire product line in a single word is a highly valuable piece of IP to hold.

This is one very interesting case though where the act of protecting the mark actually does significant harm to the brand identity - people respect HF and HF products because they are authentically good, produced without ********, marketed simply on the basis of their quality. The TM on every product name just instantly undermines all of that and makes you feel kind of icky. It implies the opposite of authentic. I wonder if there's a better way - and if not, I wonder if it does more harm than good.

 

[tripsforjoe]

:: produces and markets farmsteady ale ::
:: gets sued by Shaun Hill ::
:: counter-sues for defamation ::
:: settles out of court for kegs of Harlan ::

 

[mwbbq]

Beautiful day at the Hill yesterday. Not too crowded and love those Society blends. #4 is Double Citra and Double Galaxy right? What is #5?

And Everett is not on anymore lol

Went up yesterday and they said they ended up not kegging Everett this week so it will likely be up next week. Same guy said he had kept a growler of Everett for over 2 years in his fridge and it still had carb...awesome.

 

[markgugs]

Such a conundrum... It's a huge risk not protecting that word, but man does that look terribly unfortunate. Completely undermines the authenticity of the brand in an effort to protect it. Worth it? Tough to say...

I spent a bit of time working in trademark research/protection, and in this instance, "Farmstead" by itself would likely be considered a generic term and not worth protecting. "Hill Farmstead" used together (and the logo, of course), WOULD be what you trademark & protect.

Trademarking Farmstead in this case makes Sean look like a giant d-bag.

Edit: after I read your 2nd post, "farmstead ale" is still likely generic enough. Ergo Avery IPA and Lagunitas IPA.

 

[Gene1]

I spent a bit of time working in trademark research/protection, and in this instance, "Farmstead" by itself would likely be considered a generic term and not worth protecting. "Hill Farmstead" used together (and the logo, of course), WOULD be what you trademark & protect.

Trademarking Farmstead in this case makes Sean look like a giant d-bag.

Edit: after I read your 2nd post, "farmstead ale" is still likely generic enough. Ergo Avery IPA and Lagunitas IPA.

I'd argue that "farmhouse ale" is generic, while "Farmstead Ale" is reasonably proprietary to HF.

Of course HF would need to actively protect the mark to make that case, which would suck for these guys, who just introduced what appears to be the only other use of the term last fall. A trademark suit could also damage the HF brand, deepening the conundrum!

 

[Os]

such a tricky convo... I don't like seeing the "TM" having to be used... but to say that "Farmstead" was a generic term used in beer and should not be credited to HF is crazy...

I think it goes back to Shaun's quest to find a new descriptor for his beers... as "Saison" is so vague... and "Farmhouse" as well as "Rustic" having very little explanation... perhaps taking a word and making it there's gives them they descriptor they need... Farmstead was not being used elsewhere... it was clearly part of his branding to begin with... so using that as a description for his beers make sense... when anyone else uses "Farmstead" it is like saying "HF style beer"

 

[ncaudle]

such a tricky convo... I don't like seeing the "TM" having to be used... but to say that "Farmstead" was a generic term used in beer and should not be credited to HF is crazy...

I think it goes back to Shaun's quest to find a new descriptor for his beers... as "Saison" is so vague... and "Farmhouse" as well as "Rustic" having very little explanation... perhaps taking a word and making it there's gives them they descriptor they need... Farmstead was not being used elsewhere... it was clearly part of his branding to begin with... so using that as a description for his beers make sense... when anyone else uses "Farmstead" it is like saying "HF style beer"

agreed, but think he would get less stick if he tm'd Farmstead Ale instead of just Farmstead... but there may be a legal aspect of that we're not thinking of too.

 

[Os]

agreed, but think he would get less stick if he tm'd Farmstead Ale instead of just Farmstead

but that would still allow things like the new "Empire Farmstead Brewery" to open up... and then there would be "Farmstead Saisons" etc etc

honestly, it's a word that was not being used in beer and anyone using it now must know of Hill Farmstead

 

[mjohnson171]

Just trying to wrap my head around this whole trademark thing. Can anyone clarify the following:
Is Farmstead only trademarked in relation to the type/style of beer. I'm curious if it also applies to Hill Farmstead Brewery and would restrict another brewery from using Farmstead in their brewery name? I have to image it only applies to beer as well. It seems far-fetched that Farmstead couldn't be used in other industries, i.e. if I wanted to open up a winery or cheese farm.

 

[Gene1]

Just trying to wrap my head around this whole trademark thing. Can anyone clarify the following:
Is Farmstead only trademarked in relation to the type/style of beer. I'm curious if it also applies to Hill Farmstead Brewery and would restrict another brewery from using Farmstead in their brewery name? I have to image it only applies to beer as well. It seems far-fetched that Farmstead couldn't be used in other industries, i.e. if I wanted to open up a winery or cheese farm.

Winery, maybe not (re: Abacus). Cheese farm, probably fine, but maybe not.

 

[Os]

Just trying to wrap my head around this whole trademark thing. Can anyone clarify the following:
Is Farmstead only trademarked in relation to the type/style of beer. I'm curious if it also applies to Hill Farmstead Brewery and would restrict another brewery from using Farmstead in their brewery name? I have to image it only applies to beer as well. It seems far-fetched that Farmstead couldn't be used in other industries, i.e. if I wanted to open up a winery or cheese farm.

most trademarks are industry specific... unless there is more to it that could be misleading

 

[markgugs]

Just trying to wrap my head around this whole trademark thing. Can anyone clarify the following:
Is Farmstead only trademarked in relation to the type/style of beer. I'm curious if it also applies to Hill Farmstead Brewery and would restrict another brewery from using Farmstead in their brewery name? I have to image it only applies to beer as well. It seems far-fetched that Farmstead couldn't be used in other industries, i.e. if I wanted to open up a winery or cheese farm.

if memory serves, you can't just trademark something in a certain industry; that's why it's a generic term if you're relating the production of well, anything food or drink-related on a "farmstead."

 

[markgugs]

most trademarks are industry specific... unless there is more to it that could be misleading

no they're not. where do you get that info from?

edit: I think I see what you're saying. they're really NOT industry-specific, but similar/same names HAVE been allowed for completely different industries before. for example, even if "Farmstead" was allowed as a trademark for beer, another company could likely trademark "Farmstead" for laptop computers.

 

[falc0n26001]

When you trademark something, do you have to put the stupid ******* logo next to it? How about, just don't do that?

 

[bsc]

lawsuit
#1
http://empirebrew.com/farmstead-brewery/

#2
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Indian-Ladder-Farmstead-Brewery-and-Cidery/573467889341655


sucks when business and pleasure merge.

 

[Os]

no they're not. where do you get that info from?

edit: I think I see what you're saying. they're really NOT industry-specific, but similar/same names HAVE been allowed for completely different industries before. for example, even if "Farmstead" was allowed as a trademark for beer, another company could likely trademark "Farmstead" for laptop computers.

yeah, it might be an issue with all alcoholic beverage... but probably not all food... and definitely not for an actual farm...

I think it has to come down to proving that you will defend your trademark... and some instances are too far fetched and don't require defending... like Cruz Farmstead Dairy or something

 

[mjohnson171]

lawsuit
#1
http://empirebrew.com/farmstead-brewery/

#2
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Indian-Ladder-Farmstead-Brewery-and-Cidery/573467889341655

This brings up another point I'd like clarification if anyone is able. markgugs ? Is there any sort of grandfather clause for breweries/establishments that also used the Farmstead name prior to the HF trademark being official that would protect them if they had it first and failed to TM?

 

[basicksickness]

TE.EM

 

[Os]

This brings up another point I'd like clarification if anyone is able. markgugs ? Is there any sort of grandfather clause for breweries/establishments that also used the Farmstead name prior to the HF trademark being official that would protect them if they had it first and failed to TM?

I think there was already an issue like this w/ Duclaw and Left Hand

 

[JulianB1]

I searched the site-that-shall-not-be named for instances of the word "Farmstead" in beer and/or brewery names (not this doesn't consider the possibility that the term may have been used in beer descriptions). The only hits that come up that are not HF beers or HF collabs are:

Farmstead Saison
Natty Greene's Pub & Brewing Co. | Raleigh, North Carolina

Farmstead Ale
The Hop Garden | Belleville, Wisconsin

Retired - Barley Legal Farmstead Blonde
Rogue Ales | Newport, Oregon

Farmstead Ale Batch: Pickle
Plan Bee Farm Brewery | Fishkill, New York

So yeah, it definitely doesn't seem like something that's had much use and is fairly unique to HF. I don't blame them for seeking a trademark but it definitely does look clunky on the website like that. See also: The Bruery's Reserve Society announcement for 2015. TMs and Rs for miles!

 

[BadJustin]

last couple pages be like .....

 

[markgugs]

This brings up another point I'd like clarification if anyone is able. markgugs ? Is there any sort of grandfather clause for breweries/establishments that also used the Farmstead name prior to the HF trademark being official that would protect them if they had it first and failed to TM?

that I honestly don't know

I'm not an attorney or anything, I just worked for a company that did the research behind trademarks for companies

 

[markgugs]

last couple pages be like .....

I know right?! we should totes get back to comparing the subtle (read: imaginary) differences between batches of saisons, or wondering where our FoFa tickets are!!!

I kid, I kid (not really)

 

[JulianB1]

last couple pages be like .....

 

[averagjoe3]

anyone got any good breakfast spots near waterbury ?

i do love me some hash

 

[acurtis]

Farmstead Ale Batch: Pickle
Plan Bee Farm Brewery | Fishkill, New York

At least this one is a typo, should be Farmstand Ale