Hill Farmstead Ephraim/Edward Clone (A.K.A. Noob Needs Some Help)

[nsap]

Hey guys,
As a recent Vermont transplant my beer availability has changed exponentially for the better. I've come to love edward and ephraim but my wallet has not. I know these are somewhat different beers, however, they have these things in is common:

-The mash profiles are extremely light and simple. Nothing fancy at all. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were both single malt bills.

-They have overwhelming hop flavor with incredible complexity (pine, passionfruit, citrus, everything!) but little to almost no bitterness on the tongue.

I'm honestly not looking to clone these beers as I realize that takes a masterful grasp of the craft of brewing. However, I am wondering if anyone can help me create a recipe that gets somewhat close in regards to those two qualities.

Here is what I was thinking so far.
5 Gallons:
#10lb 2 Malt Pale (Maybe as light as a Pilsner malt)
.5 oz Cascade (60 Minutes)
.5oz Cascade (Dry Hop)
.5oz Citra (Dry Hop)

Single infusion mash @152

Appreciate any help as I'm probably pretty far off here. Never made a recipe before, kind of just guessing.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

To get that hop flavor/aroma, I would hop-burst it. It will probably need 6-8oz of late addition hops, and another 3-5oz dry hop to get close; maybe more for Ephraim.

There is a lot of info on their website, including degrees Plato, alc %, ibus, and ingredients.

 

[nsap]

To get that hop flavor/aroma, I would hop-burst it. It will probably need 6-8oz of late addition hops, and another 3-5oz dry hop to get close; maybe more for Ephraim.

There is a lot of info on their website, including degrees Plato, alc %, ibus, and ingredients.

... Wow. I was off by a lot with the hops. Based on Hill Farmstead's Website here is my new reformulation:

10lb 2Row
2 lb 10-40L Caramel
2oz Chinook (15 Minutes)
2oz Warrior (5 Minutes)
2oz Columbus (Flame Out)

1oz Centennial (Dry Hop)
2oz Simco (Dry Hop)

Seem any closer to anyone who has had it?

 

[skeezerpleezer]

The hop schedule will give you something closer to what you are looking for. I would cut the caramel to 5-10%. OG should be 1.055. Do you have beersmith? If not, I can try to run some #s for you tomorrow.

 

[nsap]

The hop schedule will give you something closer to what you are looking for. I would cut the caramel to 5-10%. OG should be 1.055. Do you have beersmith? If not, I can try to run some #s for you tomorrow.

I don't. That would be fantaststic. Thanks.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

This would put you pretty close to the right gravity and ibus:

Estimated Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Bitterness: 88.4 IBU

10.25 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 93.2 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 6.8 %
0.75 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 38.6 IBU
1.00 oz Warrior [15.00%] (15 min) Hops 24.9 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.00%] (15 min) Hops 19.9 IBU
1.50 oz Chinook [13.00%] (1 min) Hops 2.8 IBU
1.50 oz Centennial [10.00%] (1 min) Hops 2.2 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00%] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.00%] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Warrior [15.00%] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -

Estimated Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Bitterness: 88.4 IBU

What you have in post #3 would get you to 1.059 SG and 65 ibus (but lots of flavor/aroma). I think I remember a thread stating Shawn Hill has said they used Columbus extract to bitter, but could be wrong. It has been quite awhile since I have had this also, I just remember there was a lot of flavor aroma. I imagine they use a 20min whirlpool addition, and probably run through a hopback also.

 

[nsap]

This would put you pretty close to the right gravity and ibus:

Estimated Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Bitterness: 88.4 IBU

10.25 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 93.2 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 6.8 %
0.75 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 38.6 IBU
1.00 oz Warrior [15.00%] (15 min) Hops 24.9 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.00%] (15 min) Hops 19.9 IBU
1.50 oz Chinook [13.00%] (1 min) Hops 2.8 IBU
1.50 oz Centennial [10.00%] (1 min) Hops 2.2 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00%] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.00%] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Warrior [15.00%] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -

Estimated Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Bitterness: 88.4 IBU

What you have in post #3 would get you to 1.059 SG and 65 ibus (but lots of flavor/aroma). I think I remember a thread stating Shawn Hill has said they used Columbus extract to bitter, but could be wrong. It has been quite awhile since I have had this also, I just remember there was a lot of flavor aroma. I imagine they use a 20min whirlpool addition, and probably run through a hopback also.

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. I'll report in with the results when I get to brew. Should be sometime in the coming week. I may lay off some of the original hopping as it's really the aroma, not the bitterness, that is so overpowering in HFS beer.

 

[beckerc07]

Any results on how the recipe turned out? I'd like to try my hand at this once there is some more feedback.

 

[Peruvian]

I'm thinking of trying a partial mash on skeezer's recipe replacing the all grain with:

6.6 lbs LME
1lb pale 2 row
3/4 lb crystal

and then following the hop schedule with wlp007 yeast.

I think I'll use leaf or cone hops for the 'dry' additions to make it easier for racking. Any thoughts?

 

[VolksBrew]

Any results from these recipes? Hill Farmstead Edward is one of my all-time favorite beers, but unfortunately I cannot get it down here in MA!! I'd love to be able to get close. Thanks!

 

[ocluke]

Results? That's crazy talk! Clone recipe posts are about theorizing, not executing and reporting back.

But what the heck, let's buck the trend and get some results going. Who's first?

 

[Peruvian802]

I got tied up with some other recipes. Although I live in VT I live too far away to enjoy HF brews or HT on a regular basis. However over the last two weekends I was lucky enough to enjoy one of each. I really prefer the Edward over HT. /blog.

 

[inflictor-of-grimness]

Hey guys, it's been 6 months. Any results? This recipe looks pretty nice.

 

[threephase]

This is some information I stumbled across from an AMA on Reddit done with Shaun Hill
Question: "Thanks for being so active in this AMA. Once again you're setting the bar high.
Edward is a favorite beer of mine - could you suggest a hop bill to start with on a homebrew clone?"
Shauns Response "Sure. Neutral bittering. Then many healthy doses of Centennial and Simcoe throughout the boil..."

He also answered another question with the following response "As for hopping of hoppy beers - 60/20/10/0 works well... as does 60/0... or 60/45/30/15/0... depends upon the target of the beer, really!"

 

[ocluke]

This is some information I stumbled across from an AMA on Reddit done with Shaun Hill
Question: "Thanks for being so active in this AMA. Once again you're setting the bar high.
Edward is a favorite beer of mine - could you suggest a hop bill to start with on a homebrew clone?"
Shauns Response "Sure. Neutral bittering. Then many healthy doses of Centennial and Simcoe throughout the boil..."

He also answered another question with the following response "As for hopping of hoppy beers - 60/20/10/0 works well... as does 60/0... or 60/45/30/15/0... depends upon the target of the beer, really!"

Thanks for sharing. So basically we now know which 2 hops he uses. If we could learn hop quantities, processes (hop back? whirlpool? If so, at what temp for how long? Dry hopping quantity and technique?), water treatment, yeast, fermentation schedule, and malt bill/mash schedule, we'd be approaching a clone recipe.


Sent from my HTC One using Home Brew mobile app

 

[ajhamm4]

OK, so I don't have the most sophisticated version of this recipie to share, but I do have some results (results that are sitting in a pint glass staring at me as I type this). I originally found the recipe looking for an Imperial IPA that I could brew-- and thus found the most dedicated bunch of folks to the vague-st post on the internet. Here's what I could do with what I could find at my local Liquor Barn...

I was brewing alone, without my buddy who I've always brewed with before, so I backed this down to a 3 gal. batch hoping it'd be easier to manage. Here's the recipe I used:
6.5 lb. 2 row
0.5 lb caramel 20L

1.5 liters of water per pounds of grain
mash @ 154 degrees for appx. 70-75 minutes

Hop bill:
0.5 oz Columbus_60 mins
0.25 oz Citra_15 mins
1 oz Simcoe_15 mins
1 oz Cascade_1 min
1 oz Chinook_1min

OG: 1.058
FG: 1.008

I pitched a 2nd generation White Labs-San Diego Super Yeast, meaning I used yeast that I'd previous harvested from an IPA brew. I've had great results saving yeast in this way...and it's good for saving some money.

Clearly this is a loose interpretation of the recipe, but I'm definitely pleased with the result. I kegged the beer about a week ago and feel as though it's carbonated just right. It's light in color, as you'd expect from the grain bill, and SUPER hop forward (which was kind of the idea). I couldn't help myself from adding in some Citra hops, and I think the overall hop bill benefits from the addition. It's easy drinking and relatively high abv. I'm definitely brew this recipe again, but next time it'll be a 5 gal. batch!

Any other takes on this out there?

 

[truck]

Does anyone know the final pH on Edward? The calculated final gravity is between 1.015-1.016, seems really high but it isn't that sweet!

 

[Peruvian802]

I know they had been using Rahr 2 row. "neutral" bittering hops sounds like magnum to me.

 

[mbushnel]

Does anyone know the final pH on Edward? The calculated final gravity is between 1.015-1.016, seems really high but it isn't that sweet!

Shaun Hill is pretty anal about pH. I would imagine it to be 5.1 to 5.2. John Kimmach of the Alchemist which is about an hour away from Hill Farmstead mentioned 5.1 to 5.2 is best and to err on the low side. Otherwise you are probably going to create a muddled pile of sh*t.

 

[mbushnel]

Does anyone know the final pH on Edward? The calculated final gravity is between 1.015-1.016, seems really high but it isn't that sweet!

Shaun Hill is pretty anal about pH. I would imagine it to be 5.1 to 5.2. John Kimmick of the Alchemist which is about an hour away from Hill Farmstead mentioned 5.1 to 5.2 is best and to err on the low side. Otherwise you are probably going to create a muddled pile of sh*t.

 

[truck]

Hey mbushnel,

I think I saw that same talk by Kimmick, lots of good stuff there. But I was referring to the final pH, not the mash pH. Obviously the end product is in the low 4's but pinpointing through taste is impossibe. And yes, I have read elsewhere he is pretty strict on pH, hence why I am curious.

Has anyone stuck their pH meter in yet?

 

[mosaicbrewer]

4.4 as reported by ward labs. the rest of the water is what interesting

 

[truck]

@mosaicbrewer

I meant the pH of Edward, not Heady Topper... Have you measured it for Edward?

I agree, the water profile for Heady Topper is interesting but acidification is also a key element.

Edit: Or am I reading this as you have had Edward analysed and it came out to pH 4.4? And that you have the rest of the results from Ward Labs?

 

[robopp]

I guess I'll raise this thread from the dead. I plan on brewing an Edward clone this weekend. I dawned my inspiration from the Redit thread where people could ask Shaun Hill questions and he'd answer. One question was about cloning Edward and his advice was to use lots of centennial and simcoe throughout the boil. Here's the link in case anyone is interested:

http://www.reddit.com/r/beer/commen...hill_brewerowner_at_hill_farmstead/?limit=500

And here's my plan of attack. Note that I'm targeting 2.5g into the keg. Also note that the Caramalt will be TF so the SRM will be lighter than 4.69. I should have a quick turn on this beer and I recently returned from Burlington, VT where I drank a lot of Edward so hopefully I can do a somewhat accurate comparison.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Hill Farmstead Edward Clone

Brew Method: All Grain
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 2.7 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 3.6 gallons
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.055
Final Gravity: 1.014
ABV (standard): 5.38%
IBU (tinseth): 85.69
SRM (morey): 4.69

FERMENTABLES:
5.4 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (94.4%)
4 oz - United Kingdom - Cara Malt (4.4%)
1.1 oz - German - Acidulated Malt (1.2%)

HOPS:
5 g - Warrior, Type: Pellet, AA: 16, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 21.55
5 g - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.9, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 13.35
20 g - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 180 °F, IBU: 19.57
5 g - Chinook, Type: Pellet, AA: 13, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 180 °F, IBU: 6.36
20 g - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 180 °F, IBU: 24.85
26 g - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days
26 g - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days
6 g - Chinook, Type: Pellet, AA: 13, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 150 F, Time: 45 min
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.25 qt/lb

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
4 g - Gypsum, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
2 g - CaCl, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash

YEAST:
Wyeast - London Ale III 1318
Fermentation Temp: 68 F

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name:
Ca2: 100
Mg2: 0
Na: 0
Cl: 75
SO4: 150
HCO3: 0

 

[kristiansorens]

I guess I'll raise this thread from the dead. I plan on brewing an Edward clone this weekend. I dawned my inspiration from the Redit thread where people could ask Shaun Hill questions and he'd answer. One question was about cloning Edward and his advice was to use lots of centennial and simcoe throughout the boil. Here's the link in case anyone is interested:

http://www.reddit.com/r/beer/commen...hill_brewerowner_at_hill_farmstead/?limit=500

And here's my plan of attack. Note that I'm targeting 2.5g into the keg. Also note that the Caramalt will be TF so the SRM will be lighter than 4.69. I should have a quick turn on this beer and I recently returned from Burlington, VT where I drank a lot of Edward so hopefully I can do a somewhat accurate comparison.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Hill Farmstead Edward Clone

Brew Method: All Grain
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 2.7 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 3.6 gallons
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.055
Final Gravity: 1.014
ABV (standard): 5.38%
IBU (tinseth): 85.69
SRM (morey): 4.69

FERMENTABLES:
5.4 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (94.4%)
4 oz - United Kingdom - Cara Malt (4.4%)
1.1 oz - German - Acidulated Malt (1.2%)

HOPS:
5 g - Warrior, Type: Pellet, AA: 16, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 21.55
5 g - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.9, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 13.35
20 g - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 180 °F, IBU: 19.57
5 g - Chinook, Type: Pellet, AA: 13, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 180 °F, IBU: 6.36
20 g - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 180 °F, IBU: 24.85
26 g - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days
26 g - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days
6 g - Chinook, Type: Pellet, AA: 13, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 150 F, Time: 45 min
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.25 qt/lb

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
4 g - Gypsum, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
2 g - CaCl, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash

YEAST:
Wyeast - London Ale III 1318
Fermentation Temp: 68 F

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name:
Ca2: 100
Mg2: 0
Na: 0
Cl: 75
SO4: 150
HCO3: 0

Pretty interested in how this one turns out!

 

[robopp]

I hit all of my targeted numbers and it turned out really well. I think I nailed the color along with the sunshine through fog look. I'm a little surprised that the yeast hasn't dropped out yet since it's been in the kegerator for 7 days now. I did dry hop exclusively in the keg so maybe it's hop haze? I dunno.

With that said, there are some things I'd like to change:

1 - I think it's too bitter. Two options here - lower the sulfates and/or decrease the IBUs.
2 - If my palate memory is correct, the yeast flavor is off. I can definitely taste the 1318 and I don't remember tasting the yeast in Edward

It's a great beer and being 5.4% is nice change from the typical DIPA that I tend to brew!

 

[LSUGrad00]

It's a great beer and being 5.4% is nice change from the typical DIPA that I tend to brew!

Great looking beer!

I don't have a lot to add, except that on Shaun's original blog there were two videos. One of videos is Shaun and Co preparing for the first Hill Farmstead brew day. Shaun briefly speaks to someone who is measuring out specialty grains for the batch from a Weyermann grain bag and Shaun mentions it's CaraAroma.

Later in the blog post Shaun identifies the batch as Edward.

I'm sure this recipe has evolved over time, but I thought throw that out there.

 

[Peruvian802]

^^^LSUGrad - when I click on your link the page comes up for a few seconds and then transfers to 'page not found' on the new HF website. Any idea how I can 'cache' or otherwise save that original blog post to read?

 

[LSUGrad00]

You'll have to click the stop button in your browser after the page loads to keep the page from redirecting.

I thought the videos on the page didn't work, bc they have never loaded for me before yesterday and of course now they don't load today.

 

[drez77]

^^^LSUGrad - when I click on your link the page comes up for a few seconds and then transfers to 'page not found' on the new HF website. Any idea how I can 'cache' or otherwise save that original blog post to read?

Hit ESC or the "X" on your browser to stop the redirect.

 

[Peruvian802]

Hit ESC or the "X" on your browser to stop the redirect.

Thank you.

 

[J343MY]

you guys do know that all the stuff from his blog is on the Hill Farmstead website right? No need to go to that other site and stop the page loading.