high heat kills my march pump...ideas on a fix?

[runningweird]

I have a march 809 pump with a stainless steel chugger head.
I can run it for hours at mash temps and it works great
The problem arises when I try to use it to recirculate through my plate chiller to sanitize it or to pump boiling wort – there is a period of time where it works and then I hear a squeak and it sounds as if the pump has shifted gears. The fan is still spinning but it sounds as if the magnetic coupling has lost the impeller or something. If I restart it after I let it cool down for a few minutes it works again but as soon as it heats up the thing stops working.

It is not losing prime, it is not sucking air.

Is this an issue with the chugger head?
Again – I can run it all day with mash temps but it seems as though whenever it gets above 200 degrees it craps out.

 

[Golddiggie]

I believe it's the chugger head you're using. I've been using an 809 pump (non-stainless head) for several batches without issue. I've recirculated boiling wort through the head without issue too (also going through my plate chiller)... I even installed the 815 impeller (Rebel's 'pimp my pump' item) and it has zero issues. If you still have the original head for the pump, try using that for a few batches.

BTW, I also have a stainless March 809 pump that I might be using soon. I'm thinking about swapping the head over to the pump in my tool box for the coming batch (bringing the other head, just in case).

There have been posts about chugger stainless heads having issues at boiling temps. Not sure if the head you're using falls within the range of when those were made, but it's worth checking out. Reach out to the maker and see if they will fix their messed-up head. Messed-up I say since it's supposed to be fine at boiling temps.

 

[Coohang]

What is the orientation of the head?

I have 2 chuggers w SS heads. They are mounted w the inlet at 9 oclock and the valved outlet at 3 o'clock. I get the same freakn thing. I throttle back the valve and everything. The only thing that helps is to shut it down and restart after a few seconds.

I am going to change the inlet/outlet to 6/12 o'clock....

 

[Golddiggie]

Inlet should be at the 6 o'clock position, with the outlet at 12 o'clock. Otherwise you'll get air pockets forming in the head and that will give you issues. I'm going to assume that the pump is lower than the kettle ball valve (and bottom of the kettle)... Mine is about 6-12" lower than the lowest point in the kettle/keggle...

I've run my pump in the 6/12 orientation and it has zero issues there. The new pump I have is center inlet. I'm still leaving the outlet at the 12 o'clock position.

 

[runningweird]

I should have mentioned - the orientation is in the inlet at 6 oclock outlet at 12.

 

[runningweird]

I just did a double brew day - two ten gallon batches and in both batches the pump did this - it added about 3 hours to my day

 

[Golddiggie]

If the pump head has all it's parts in it (including any Teflon washers), then the head is defective. If you have the original head, switch back to it while you reach out to the chuggers to get them to correct it, or order up a regular head to use while they correct the one you have (if you want to brew before it will return).

IMO, all the posts of issues exactly like this one is one of the factors that is keeping me away from getting a chugger pump. Another is their supply chain issues.

 

[runningweird]

there are no teflon washers inside - I bought it second hand so I don't have the original head either.

any chance a missing washer could cause this?

 

[runningweird]

IMO, all the posts of issues exactly like this one is one of the factors that is keeping me away from getting a chugger pump. Another is their supply chain issues.

its just a chugger head - the body is march.

time to get a march head I guess

 

[Golddiggie]

there are no teflon washers inside - I bought it second hand so I don't have the original head either.

any chance a missing washer could cause this?

It's possible... William's Brewing has them for all of $1.25 each. I actually have two in my cart there. I like to have spare parts on hand for such things.

Of course, you could email/call chubber and see what they have to say about the pump. Not sure if the warranty transfers from owner to owner or not.

William's also has a new head for the 809 pump. As does Rebel...

 

[runningweird]

I will try the washer first - since that is the only thing really missing from the equation.

next would be the impeller I suppose

some of the other threads I found mentioned flash steaming inside the impeller housing - which I guess could be happening.

 

[iaefebs]

In my battles with the decoupling impeller at high temps, this is what I found out. I tried orienting in the horizontal and vertical positions (my pump is mounted in a way that I can instantly flip it in either direction) I didn't see much difference either way. I drilled the impeller center larger... this helped a little. I changed over to the 815 impeller which has the larger diameter. The thing I noticed was that it also had stronger magnets to help it stay coupled... this helped a little. Leaving the output side unrestricted by not closing the ball valve (even partially) helped... I next replaced my input couplings with the "Cam lock" fittings.... big difference....Yeah!...Next I replaced all fittings with "Cam locks"... Problem 99.5% solved... My pump now sits Horizontal, has the 815 impeller, "cam locks", I can adjust output flow, and I pump at much higher volume per minute. In summation the big difference maker for me was using the much larger ID Cam Locks

 

[runningweird]

In my battles with the decoupling impeller at high temps, this is what I found out. I tried orienting in the horizontal and vertical positions (my pump is mounted in a way that I can instantly flip it in either direction) I didn't see much difference either way. I drilled the impeller center larger... this helped a little. I changed over to the 815 impeller which has the larger diameter. The thing I noticed was that it also had stronger magnets to help it stay coupled... this helped a little. Leaving the output side unrestricted by not closing the ball valve (even partially) helped... I next replaced my input couplings with the "Cam lock" fittings.... big difference....Yeah!...Next I replaced all fittings with "Cam locks"... Problem 99.5% solved... My pump now sits Horizontal, has the 815 impeller, "cam locks", I can adjust output flow, and I pump at much higher volume per minute. In summation the big difference maker for me was using the much larger ID Cam Locks

I'm running 1/2" camlocks on all of my setup, Might try replacing the impeller as well.

 

[iaefebs]

I'm running 1/2" camlocks on all of my setup, Might try replacing the impeller as well.

I was thinking about swapping out the 815 impeller with the original 809 and doing further testing just to see what would happen. I can't undrill the impeller so I can't revert back to the original set up. I know millage will be different for everyone and if you already are using the cam locks, and don't have that cam lock "barbed fitting" in the set up then my experience won't help you.

 

[runningweird]

I was thinking about swapping out the 815 impeller with the original 809 and doing further testing just to see what would happen. I can't undrill the impeller so I can't revert back to the original set up. I know millage will be different for everyone and if you already are using the cam locks, and don't have that cam lock "barbed fitting" in the set up then my experience won't help you.

nope, no barbed camlocks at all. I would be loathe to drill out anything at this point.

 

[MalFet]

I have a march 809 pump with a stainless steel chugger head.
I can run it for hours at mash temps and it works great
The problem arises when I try to use it to recirculate through my plate chiller to sanitize it or to pump boiling wort – there is a period of time where it works and then I hear a squeak and it sounds as if the pump has shifted gears. The fan is still spinning but it sounds as if the magnetic coupling has lost the impeller or something. If I restart it after I let it cool down for a few minutes it works again but as soon as it heats up the thing stops working.

It is not losing prime, it is not sucking air.

Is this an issue with the chugger head?
Again – I can run it all day with mash temps but it seems as though whenever it gets above 200 degrees it craps out.

I get precisely this problem with a March H315HF. I can't really figure it out. The only solution I've found is to unplug the thing, wait thirty seconds, and then plug it back in. If you find a solution, please post here with it.

 

[konrad]

I had a problem with my HF pump. It would lock up with high temp wort.

Walter from March Pumps is on this board and he suggested drilling out the impeller. Sugar from the wort collects between the impeller and the shaft and it causes it to stop. When you drill it out it creates little more space and wort lubricated the shaft. Hahaha.

Just search the boards for Walters thread. Let me know if you can't find it and ill try to find it.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Odd that this only happens with SS pump heads. I've had it happen a time or two.

However, it only occurs when the pump has been moving boiling wort, then the pump was switched off. As long as wort was moving, it never locked up. Sprinkling a little ice water on the SS head seemed to free it quicker.

I have two pumps, so I just disconnected from the SS pump and moved to the plastic head pump. Which is REAL FUN with the hoses full of boiling wort.

 

[runningweird]

I had come to the conclusion that it has something to do with the pump head reaching near boiling temperatures - even toyed with the idea of working up some kind of cooling system.

today, I am going to boil some water in my brew kettle and run it through the pump to see if its only wort that causes it. If it is only wort I will try drilling out the impeller to see if that helps.

I have read that it the wort could be "flash boiling" in the impeller housing because of the agitation and that could be causing the problem.

 

[runningweird]

well I tried boiling just water and running it through - same result the pump stopped as soon as the stainless steel head got around 200 degrees.

so this is not just a boiling wort issue - but is now an any how liquid issue.

 

[CidahMastah]

Interested to see how this turns out. I have a chugger and a march. My march doesn't act up hardly at all but the chugger acts like a lot of you guys mention here (mine is the poly head though).

 

[runningweird]

also, I just noticed the small thrust washer on the axle in the head - so it is there. what a PITA this is.

 

[CidahMastah]

also, I just noticed the small thrust washer on the axle in the head - so it is there. what a PITA this is.

I feel your pain. I felt the sting after I bought my march and realized how poorly my chugger performed in comparison. Took it apart to clean it even though only a few months old... nothing in there! ugh

 

[runningweird]

I am going to try replacing the smaller impeller with an 815 imepller as well as putting in a new o ring around the pump seal as the old one is a bit worn.

Should be here friday and I will try my boiling water thing again.

 

[CidahMastah]

I am going to try replacing the smaller impeller with an 815 imepller as well as putting in a new o ring around the pump seal as the old one is a bit worn.

Should be here friday and I will try my boiling water thing again.

Does that 815 impeller fit? I was thinking of buying one from rebel brewer but didn't know for sure if it mated up correctly.

 

[Golddiggie]

Does that 815 impeller fit? I was thinking of buying one from rebel brewer but didn't know for sure if it mated up correctly.

Fits fine in the plastic March pump head. I'll be trying it in the stainless head for my other March pump (all from March).

 

[CidahMastah]

Fits fine in the plastic March pump head. I'll be trying it in the stainless head for my other March pump (all from March).

oop I should have been more clear. I have a dog of a chugger pump. Was going to grab that march impeller and try it in the poly head chugger.

Do you have a link to the stainless march head by any chance?

 

[oakbarn]

We have had this problem with the original mach pump, the newer High flow, with replacement heads. Drives us crazy. I replaced the inlet hose with 3/4 inch short as possible silicone tubing 3/4 inch barb (Tri Clover fitting). This has hopefully solved my pump problems. We have three pumps and can move them if necessary. We do use all three when we brew but really two would do. The third serves as a back up. Boiling always seems to introduce air into the pumps.

 

[runningweird]

I never heard of these issues when I was doing my reasearch into a pump. do you guys think that just putting a march 815 impeller into the chugger head would be a problem? looking at the impeller I have now I believe it was standard issue march 809 so I think it should be fine.

I like having the stainless head but would be fine with a plastic one( the only issue being breakage and thread destruction)

 

[RoadKing]

It sounds like the stainless heads expand too much a high temps. and puts pressure against the impeller. Maybe slightly trim/sand down the end of the impeller to give it a little more play at high temps?