High Gravity Brewing vs Brew Boss vs Another Electric Brewing Setup

[markgalli]

I agree with those who say we each have to decide how to spend our time. The markups for these systems, especially Brew-Boss, are in line with business mark ups in general--50 to 70%. I don't begrudge someone making money off of me if they are providing a product that makes me delight in brewing all the more. And Brew Boss does that--and it's still a small enough operation that I get answers to my emails immediately for the owner/creator. Like any system, it has kinks and quirks, but what system doesn't?

As I said in a previous post, I feel like you get the most bang for your buck with Brew Boss--but it's not just about bargains. I'm willing to pay more for product if it does something unique that I want, even if overall it isn't as good a bargain. It just happens that Brew-Boss gave me both more control over the process with it's use of the Android AND was a bargain in comparison. I'm also intrigued (but have not yet bought) the hop additions gizmo. Next Christmas!

 

[augiedoggy]

I agree with those who say we each have to decide how to spend our time. The markups for these systems, especially Brew-Boss, are in line with business mark ups in general--50 to 70%. I don't begrudge someone making money off of me if they are providing a product that makes me delight in brewing all the more. And Brew Boss does that--and it's still a small enough operation that I get answers to my emails immediately for the owner/creator. Like any system, it has kinks and quirks, but what system doesn't?

As I said in a previous post, I feel like you get the most bang for your buck with Brew Boss--but it's not just about bargains. I'm willing to pay more for product if it does something unique that I want, even if overall it isn't as good a bargain. It just happens that Brew-Boss gave me both more control over the process with it's use of the Android AND was a bargain in comparison. I'm also intrigued (but have not yet bought) the hop additions gizmo. Next Christmas!

when it comes to the High gravity how is $1,100 for $200-300 in hardware + 50 -70%? even with paying the builder $33 an hour for 3 hours labor your looking at well over 200% I have no idea what brew boss pays the manufacturer for making their control panels but they hadve software they had to write so there was more actual leg work done to develop that system.
the 16 gallon kettle is $120 with ballvalve (I have 2 of the same ones) and the pump is $110....

 

[ingchr1]

I've also been thinking about an electric setup with an electric HLT/BK and cooler mash tun.

This is how I'm setting up my system with a Brew Boss controller. Here is the thread I started on it: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/brew-boss-systems-475360/

I, like others who have posted in this thread, am more than capable of building my own controller. But I simply didn't want to use up my valuable free time on researching parts, ordering parts and assembly. When I looked into buying a prebuilt controller the Brew Boss was really the best bang for the buck. A lot went into developing the software interface for the controller. Something I would have never been able to have by building it myself (well without investing more time and money anyway).

 

[Menhir]

I've pledged for the Brew Boss Kickstarter. I chose a pre-made system because I don't have the desire to spend an enormous amount of time researching and building my own electric brewing system. (Kudos to you who have done this!) I also have zero experience in working with electrical systems and, being cautious by nature, draw the line on DIY projects that could have potentially lethal results if not done correctly. (220v, 16 amp circuits are not something to casually experiment with.)

For me, I like how the Brew Boss software allows the user to set up the entire brewing process in a way that makes it easy for less experienced all grain brewers to get consistent results. I think this system is a great fit for folks who want to be able to begin all grain brewing straight out of the box. (I've got all the other equipment I need as I've been a malt extract/grain brewer for some time.)

By the way, for those who may be interested, there are only a couple of weeks left in the Brew Boss Kickstarter campaign. I'm still hoping that a large influx of interested folks near the end may allow this project to be fulfilled.

 

[Tombsy]

I have a quick question about the chugger pump. I thought it has to be below the kettle port, but the picture on the website shows it on the counter. I see that the flow from the kettle goes below the pump/kettle.

The question I have, once the pump is primed, will it work like this? (sucking wort from below the pump)?

 

[TungstenBeer]

Edit: I'm going to take back what I said because I'm not sure that's right. You definitely can't prime it from that position.

Why not just keep it on a shelf or small stand (I used a flipped over recycling bin for a long time) somewhere beneath the tabletop?

 

[Tombsy]

Here is the reply I received from Dave at High Gravity.

We rotate the pump head on the motor 90 degrees so that the input is at the low point. With the pump and vessel sitting on the same surface, the input is lower than the vessel output. Gravity helps to prime to pump this way. Sometimes it is necessary to stop the pump for a moment to let the initial air bubbles pass through, usually just once.

Another question. Could you pour wort from the top down to help prime the pump? Obviously easier with a quick disconnect and funnel. (Disconnect at top of kettle, pour in a bit of wort, reconnect?)

 

[blubmr]

I have my system set up exactly as the picture and it primes itself every time. As long as the pump head is below the level of the wort it will prime. Be sure that the wort comes in from the bottom so that an air bubble does not cause cavitation. Just open the ball valve and wait for the wort or water to fill the pump, then switch it on. I have never had a problem.

 

[TSO33]

I bought one of high gravity systems. All I have to say about the controller is that it is no doubt made like garbage. Speaker wire is used in the construction and it uses relays (epoxied to the enclosure) instead of a SSRs. When mine went out, I could have sent it back for repair but just made my own with the right parts.

I used A PID and SSR for heat control, just set the PID to 108-110 for boiling.

 

[augiedoggy]

I bought one of high gravity systems. All I have to say about the controller is that it is no doubt made like garbage. Speaker wire is used in the construction and it uses relays (epoxied to the enclosure) instead of a SSRs. When mine went out, I could have sent it back for repair but just made my own with the right parts.

I used A PID and SSR for heat control, just set the PID to 108-110 for boiling.

hmm you joined just to post this?... Not that I'm disagreeing with you as the HG system is completely a homemade setup from all the components I've seen but I'm kind of shocked that they use speaker cord since the insulation is not rated or safe that kind of use at all.(I was corrected about this myself about a year ago). and telays will have a fairly short life before failure in this type of application.
Especially for the prices they are asking which would realistically cover building it with top quality components and still come out under half of what they charge...It would be nice if someone could build the courage to take the cover off and post a picture as I asked before but it seems everyone who owns one would rather not know whats inside and would rather live in blissful ignorance....
Ironic since most of the owners of these claim they would rather pay the 2-300% markups for the "safety" and "professionally built " aspects of it.... you would think comments like yours would have raised more concerns by now

from what you state above I would have to adjust my estimates lower as the cost of materials would be much lower with shortcuts like that... All I have to say is this goes a long way to Prove that marketing can have more impact than quality for those who dont do their homework...

I'm actually kind of hoping the comments above are exaggerated and these things aren't built that poorly as much as it proves the point I was trying to make earlier..

 

[TSO33]

hmm you joined just to post this?... Not that I'm disagreeing with you as the HG system is completely a homemade setup from all the components I've seen but I'm kind of shocked that they use speaker cord since the insulation is not rated or safe that kind of use at all.(I was corrected about this myself about a year ago). and telays will have a fairly short life before failure in this type of application.
Especially for the prices they are asking which would realistically cover building it with top quality components and still come out under half of what they charge...It would be nice if someone could build the courage to take the cover off and post a picture as I asked before but it seems everyone who owns one would rather not know whats inside and would rather live in blissful ignorance....
Ironic since most of the owners of these claim they would rather pay the 2-300% markups for the "safety" and "professionally built " aspects of it.... you would think comments like yours would have raised more concerns by now

from what you state above I would have to adjust my estimates lower as the cost of materials would be much lower with shortcuts like that... All I have to say is this goes a long way to Prove that marketing can have more impact than quality for those who dont do their homework...

I'm actually kind of hoping the comments above are exaggerated and these things aren't built that poorly as much as it proves the point I was trying to make earlier..

I took mine apart when it failed during a brew session....due to poorly connected wiring one contactor melted. I wish I still had photos to prove that my first post is not just slamming HG brewing. When I have something important to say, I do and have never been one to write just for the hell of it.

Here is the response when I placed a follow up product review, the first one being a good review.

We saw that you had a problem with your controller when you created a product review. First let me apologize for the trouble. We take care of any problem that anyone has with a controller when they let us know about it.



The information contained in your product review is just not accurate. The relays are 240V 30A, the coil is 120V. We use a pair of them so that when the power is shut off both hot legs are shut off. This is a safer design than many of the controllers out there (nearly all of them) that only switch one of the hot legs. We actually used to only switch one of the hot legs thinking that people would treat the receptacle as a wall receptacle and it would be safe enough, but one of our customers (an electrical engineer) purchased a controller, and had planned to put together his own heating elements plugged in a cable and found that one of the legs was hot when the switch was off. He inspired us to add a second relay to make it safer.



The problem that you experienced is likely due to the wire lug connection not being tight enough, or crimped tight enough, causing it to get hot. This would be my fault. We have built around a thousand controllers, we build them by hand, and we are building them as fast as we can. Many of these are running all day every day in small production systems and commercial pilot systems. We have experienced problems with just a handful of them over the years.



If you have any trouble again please let us know, we will take care of it.



Thank you very much,

Dave Knott





High Gravity

7142 S Memorial Dr.

Tulsa, OK 74133

(918) 461-2605

 

[augiedoggy]

I took mine apart when it failed during a brew session....due to poorly connected wiring one contactor melted. I wish I still had photos to prove that my first post is not just slamming HG brewing. When I have something important to say, I do and have never been one to write just for the hell of it.

Here is the response when I placed a follow up product review, the first one being a good review.

We saw that you had a problem with your controller when you created a product review. First let me apologize for the trouble. We take care of any problem that anyone has with a controller when they let us know about it.



The information contained in your product review is just not accurate. The relays are 240V 30A, the coil is 120V. We use a pair of them so that when the power is shut off both hot legs are shut off. This is a safer design than many of the controllers out there (nearly all of them) that only switch one of the hot legs. We actually used to only switch one of the hot legs thinking that people would treat the receptacle as a wall receptacle and it would be safe enough, but one of our customers (an electrical engineer) purchased a controller, and had planned to put together his own heating elements plugged in a cable and found that one of the legs was hot when the switch was off. He inspired us to add a second relay to make it safer.



The problem that you experienced is likely due to the wire lug connection not being tight enough, or crimped tight enough, causing it to get hot. This would be my fault. We have built around a thousand controllers, we build them by hand, and we are building them as fast as we can. Many of these are running all day every day in small production systems and commercial pilot systems. We have experienced problems with just a handful of them over the years.



If you have any trouble again please let us know, we will take care of it.



Thank you very much,

Dave Knott





High Gravity

7142 S Memorial Dr.

Tulsa, OK 74133

(918) 461-2605

Thanks for posting the followup,
For the record the "accepted" way to use a relay in this configuration is with an ssr wired in the line right after the relay ... The relay should not be switching on and off quickly controlling heat output its just there as an element main on off switch and this setup is most commonly used in setups like mine where you can select one heating element or another... an ssr should still be controlling the heat output.
the fact that there is a manual potentiometer knob on the side would indicate that there has to be some sort of pwm or ssrv relay system inside? a regular relay would not work with this.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I have a quick question about the chugger pump. I thought it has to be below the kettle port, but the picture on the website shows it on the counter. I see that the flow from the kettle goes below the pump/kettle.

The question I have, once the pump is primed, will it work like this? (sucking wort from below the pump)?

@Tombsy yes it does work this is exactly how my system is setup and its worked perfectly for over 10 batches of beer in the past 12 months.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I bought one of high gravity systems. All I have to say about the controller is that it is no doubt made like garbage. Speaker wire is used in the construction and it uses relays (epoxied to the enclosure) instead of a SSRs. When mine went out, I could have sent it back for repair but just made my own with the right parts.

I used A PID and SSR for heat control, just set the PID to 108-110 for boiling.

@TSO33 Is see you joined HBT in March 2015 and this is the only thread you've posted to since then, am I wrong?.

 

[johnsant]

Hello All; I posted in the all grain forum about this system wanting some answers form those who have used it. I see that a lot of brewers are saying that the system is cheap or its to expensive or what not. All I have to say is depending on which sight you go to or who you ask someone somewhere will always have negative reviews. I live a few miles outside of town where this system is made I'm a member of local brew club that the owners attend. I consider them above board on any and all dealing concerning their business. Sure they want and need to make profit however I will not and can not think that they would do that with a lot of sales coming from word-of-mouth.
With that being said I plan on getting the 120V system in November(have to wait for SS check to come in). My question is, has those of you that use the 120V sys. have any problems with additions of DME or LME's seeing that the electric probe is close to the bottom of the kettle?

 

[augiedoggy]

Hello All; I posted in the all grain forum about this system wanting some answers form those who have used it. I see that a lot of brewers are saying that the system is cheap or its to expensive or what not. All I have to say is depending on which sight you go to or who you ask someone somewhere will always have negative reviews. I live a few miles outside of town where this system is made I'm a member of local brew club that the owners attend. I consider them above board on any and all dealing concerning their business. Sure they want and need to make profit however I will not and can not think that they would do that with a lot of sales coming from word-of-mouth.
With that being said I plan on getting the 120V system in November(have to wait for SS check to come in). My question is, has those of you that use the 120V sys. have any problems with additions of DME or LME's seeing that the electric probe is close to the bottom of the kettle?

the best practice is to turn off the element while adding and mixing the extract in and stir it real well into the wort before firing the element back up... if this system doesnt come with an ULWD ripple element then it would be a very wise upgrade since it will be less likely to cause scorching and carmelization buildup on the element with extracts.

I would suggest you do your own research.... you can easilty price out every component they sell in the brew systems since its all widely used economy priced stuff, I use the same bayou classic kettles myself.... I have priced out each piece in their middle of the road system and with shipping the parts come to less than 1/3 of their selling price assembled... If you cool with that than great, also make sure the panel has a lifetime warranty since all the relays and such are glue into the small case making the thing disposable right?
I'd love it if someone could actually provide some facts/ proof that what im saying is wrong instead of just saying im bashing something. its like People are angry to learn what they dont want to know here...

 

[ingchr1]

I'd love it if someone could actually provide some facts/ proof that what im saying is wrong instead of just saying im bashing something.

Can you provide some facts that what you are saying and perpetuating in every thread about High Gravity is correct? IMO a photo of the inside of the controller would be needed for that, one of what they are sending out today.

This isn't to debate that it's expensive compared to other products on the market, because it is and the reason why I chose something else. This is related to the workmanship inside.

 

[johnsant]

I plan on making a trip to the High Gravity Store in the near future, and want to talk to Dave about this system. I'll bring your (augiedoggy) statements about the poor quality and workmanship of the EBC controller and cost of the system up at that time. I'll see if he has one he can show me and check to see if in fact its speaker wire and the covering of said wire connectors. I'm not to handy with wiring and I don't have the tools to build my own kettle so I'll buy one pre-made and I do like the idea that its made close to my town and can call or stop by for answers (I like face to face more than phone service).

John

 

[brew-in]

Kinda wonder why we have not heard from Dave at High Gravity in response to this thread...

 

[mxstar21]

@TSO33 Is see you joined HBT in March 2015 and this is the only thread you've posted to since then, am I wrong?.

He answered that in his post on this page. Seems like someone who reads the forum, but doesn't necessarily post a lot. To me, he doesn't seem like a troll, just someone who doesn't necessarily post a lot. Just giving his review of the product he purchased. He also posted the response he got from the company.

I don't think post count should matter when someone is giving their opinion on a product. I am guilty of browsing forums a lot and not posting much.

 

[brew-in]

he answered that in his post on this page. Seems like someone who reads the forum, but doesn't necessarily post a lot. To me, he doesn't seem like a troll, just someone who doesn't necessarily post a lot. Just giving his review of the product he purchased. He also posted the response he got from the company.

I don't think post count should matter when someone is giving their opinion on a product. I am guilty of browsing forums a lot and not posting much.

x2

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

All I can say is there has not been a shred of credible evidence (ie: pictures or it never happened) presented to support any of the claims of inferior design, or lack of quality regarding high gravity products. At least none that I have seen or read here on this forum.

Like I posted earlier I just happen to be a very satisfied High Gravity customer and I have not had any issues with the system that I bought after brewing on it for over a year now.

 

[augiedoggy]

Can you provide some facts that what you are saying and perpetuating in every thread about High Gravity is correct? IMO a photo of the inside of the controller would be needed for that, one of what they are sending out today.

This isn't to debate that it's expensive compared to other products on the market, because it is and the reason why I chose something else. This is related to the workmanship inside.

Yes and I have... I priced out all the components and listed them in a thread here already... it doesn't take much research to add up the cost of the parts... for example the plastic case they use in $16 at home depot. the pid is $47 at aubrins the switches for the pumps are 50cents on amazon the nema plug is about $30 the potentiometer and knob are about $4 the ssvr would be about $15 and a decent ssr would be about $15 contactor relays would be $10 a piece.... and since they buy all this in bulk they pay much less. the $900 control panel can be built using all the same components and paying online retail for them for under $150-175

I have the same kettle they use from bayou classic and they are about $125 with the spigot kit. (I paid $89 a piece as an open box amazon and ebay deal price from Bing for my 16 gallon kettles.)

You are totally right about the build quality I am going on outdated info and they may have stepped up their building practice but one thing is still for sure and that is the components they use all add up to less than one third of what they charge which means they are still making very large profits with large markups compared to most others who sell these control panels averaging between 30% to 100% markup over component costs. This COMBINED with the reports of shoddy workmanship is what rubs me the wrong way... its bad enough they overcharge but then take such shortcuts in building them on top of it.

 

[augiedoggy]

All I can say is there has not been a shred of credible evidence (ie: pictures or it never happened) presented to support any of the claims of inferior design, or lack of quality regarding high gravity products. At least none that I have seen or read here on this forum.

Like I posted earlier I just happen to be a very satisfied High Gravity customer and I have not had any issues with the system that I bought after brewing on it for over a year now.

So why not remove the 8 screws and take a peek? There no evidence to prove in wrong either? The fact it there have been more than one accounts of people saying the components are glued onto the plastic box and people being unimpressed with the build quality.. You can plainly see that unlike most control panels that use real bradley allen style control panel indicators and switches rated for 10 amps that normally cost at least a few dollars a piece, High gravity uses cheapy little plastic switches like they sell at radio shack for smaller amp loads that cost under a dollar (these can easily melt and fail)... These types of things paint a picture of whats likely used inside.

how many times have you used your high gravity control panel to brew in the year you have owned it?

 

[augiedoggy]

I plan on making a trip to the High Gravity Store in the near future, and want to talk to Dave about this system. I'll bring your (augiedoggy) statements about the poor quality and workmanship of the EBC controller and cost of the system up at that time. I'll see if he has one he can show me and check to see if in fact its speaker wire and the covering of said wire connectors. I'm not to handy with wiring and I don't have the tools to build my own kettle so I'll buy one pre-made and I do like the idea that its made close to my town and can call or stop by for answers (I like face to face more than phone service).

John

Ask him how they handle replacing worn out or defective relays and such if they are in fact epoxied into the case too.
they are not only my stements BTW... there are a lot of threads here where others have mentioned this stuff I have never seen the inside of one. I'm going by what I was told here as well as what I can see from the components I can see in its construction.

 

[mxstar21]

All I can say is there has not been a shred of credible evidence (ie: pictures or it never happened) presented to support any of the claims of inferior design, or lack of quality regarding high gravity products. At least none that I have seen or read here on this forum.

Like I posted earlier I just happen to be a very satisfied High Gravity customer and I have not had any issues with the system that I bought after brewing on it for over a year now.

I didn't even talk about the quality of it. I just disagree with your attitude that some one has to have a lot of posts before they are credible. He sounds like some one who lurks, had a problem with the product and decided to share his two cents.

On the flip side, has anyone including yourself opened one and shown pictures of the quality inside? That could be a good way for you to prove it is high quality. I am neither for against the product, it does seem pricey to me, but if it works for you and others great!

Just because you are happy with it doesn't mean others haven't had problems.

 

[brew-in]

Why has not High Gravity chimed in on this thread?

 

[mxstar21]

Why has not High Gravity chimed in on this thread?

I wouldn't if I was them either. Just a few people with questions on quality and lots of good reviews on the product. It would probably just turn into bad thread. I know some people are really happy with the product and a few aren't. I like High Gravity and have purchased from them before. I also agree with others that these controllers are way over priced. But, if it works for you and you can buy this that is great.

I think it is ridiculous that someone is discredited because they have a low post count, who cares. That person came across as genuine to me and gave their honest review. I agree with auggiedoggy, remove the 8 screws and show the internals. It almost seems worse that none of the big defenders will do that.

 

[ingchr1]

Yes and I have...

Like I said in my post, this is not to debate the price of the controller compared to their competitors or building your own. We know it's more. Weather it's 2x, 10x or 100x it's up to the consumers on how much of a markup they are willing to pay after comparison shopping.

The question lies in the workmanship of how the controller is assembled. The nuts and bolts, separate from the quality of the components themselves even. And until a photo is posted of the inside, I don't think that question can be fairly answered.

 

[ingchr1]

Why has not High Gravity chimed in on this thread?

I wouldn't if I was them either. Just a few people with questions on quality and lots of good reviews on the product. It would probably just turn into bad thread. I know some people are really happy with the product and a few aren't.

And just to add, I find that vendors/manufactures tend to not post in on-line forums even when the reviews are negative. It goes a long way if they do, but I find this to be true weather it's on here or other forums that I frequent.