High Grav Help

[Daparish]

I posted this in the gnereal forum, but it may be better placed here:

So, two weeks ago I brewed the Imperial Stout from Extreme Brewing, with plans to make it a little bigger than the recipe in the book. The recipe I used called for 15 lbs of Dark LME, some stout-ish specialty grains and about 1/4 lb of Demerara sugar. I got a SG of about 1.114 ( a little high for the written recipe, but I may not have topped up with enough water), and I pitched it onto a whole cake of healthy White Labs California V from a pale ale I had recently secondary'd. The yeast has lent some interesting ester notes to the beer so far, but it doesn't attenuate as well as other yeats so I knew it would need some backup.

After 1 week of fermenting away at 66-68 degrees, signs of fermentation started to slow. I planned on bumping up the ABV a bit with a secondary sugar addition plus the addition of some secondary champagne yeast to finish the fermentation out. So, after one week of fermentation I took a hydro reading (1.055), boiled another 3/4 lb of demerara sugar in water with yeast nutrient, added a pack of dry wine yeast and areated as well as I could.

After another week, during which i saw a good amount of airlock activity and in which I raised the temp to about 70-72, I took another hydro reading. It's only down to 1.045. I stirred to resuspend the yeast and put the fermentor back in the closet.

My question is "what can i do to get the grav down to around 1.028 where it needs to be?"

My next thought would be to add some crushed Beano tablets or amylase, as I used ALOT of LME and it probably had a high amount of unfermentables in there. Is it too late in the game to give it another good aeration? Should I use another yeast? Any other suggestions for stuff I haven't thought of?

 

[greenbirds]

Taste it; does it still seem sweet? And I'm talking syrupy sweetness, as in wort, not the kind of sweetness that alcohol can exhibit on the palate. 1.114 is a huge beer, and it's more like 1.120 since you added that sugar. All that LME is going to be less fermentable than had it been all-grain, but I would expect it to drop below 1.035, especially with the wine yeast in there.

FWIW, I had an all-grain imperial stout that finished at 1.034 from 1.110. So yours might not be that far off. Two weeks with a beer this big is not long enough. It is probably still creeping along. I say report back in 2 more weeks, and keep rousing the yeast; but don't agitate/aerate. It's too late for that.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Yeah, whatever you do don't aerate again. That second aeration probably caused some oxidation already, which isn't good. Give it time. Big beers take big patience.

Which wine yeast did you use?

 

[Daparish]

The wort is still pretty sweet. I would be fine with it if I could get it down to 1.030.

I used a pack of dry wine yeast proposed by my LHBS. I've also got a packet of champagne yeast.

I know about the oxidation issue, but it was pretty early in fermentation when I aerated (respectively), and I've tasted it since and noted no off flavors.

Should I add beano tabs or amylase?

 

[cheezydemon3]

I would have step fermented with only about 1/2 the fermentables in the first wort.

There is beer yeast that could handle this, I don't have experience with wine yeast in beer, but I am against it.

If you spark more fermentation, more air won't hurt.

I wouldn't do it.

I hope to GOD you are kegging this.

 

[Daparish]

I would have step fermented with only about 1/2 the fermentables in the first wort.

There is beer yeast that could handle this, I don't have experience with wine yeast in beer, but I am against it.

If you spark more fermentation, more air won't hurt.

I wouldn't do it.

I hope to GOD you are kegging this.

Actually bottling it so it will keep for a year or more.

 

[cheezydemon3]

If your yeast are already crapped out, how will they carb bottles?

Fresh yeast at bottling will go comatose in the alcohol bath!

This deserves some thought.

 

[Daparish]

If your yeast are already crapped out, how will they carb bottles?

Fresh yeast at bottling will go comatose in the alcohol bath!

This deserves some thought.

I've still got the champagne yeast, which should be viable up to about 18%. Nottingham may be able to do the trick as well.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I learned the hard way!

A yeast that is good up to 18% alcohol starts at 0% and works up to it.

Any yeast that goes into 17% alcohol will go into a coma.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Any yeast that goes into 17% alcohol will go into a coma.

There's always a strong possibility of this. Dumping in more yeast isn't always the solution. I know I haven't been around here long, but I lurked for quite a while, and I swear, if I had a dollar for every time I've seen someone post "Oh noes, my barleywine read 1.020 two days in a row, I'm doomed, so I've added 3 strains of yeast each day for the past 5 days" or some similar craziness, I'd have a new car. Sure, sometimes you need to reyeast, but not very often. Most of the time, we need to stop measuring things and start tasting. That and be patient.

I know I've said it before, but it bears repeating. I brewed a RIS back in March with an OG of 1.092 or so. After a 6 week primary, it was down to 1.030. A bit high, but the taste was fine, so I didn't worry. After a 6-8 week stay in a secondary, it got down to 1.025, which is just about perfect. This kind of thing happens all the time. Rouse a bit, up the temps, and be patient. Big beers aren't easy, and they don't ferment to completion in a week.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I had some luck bottling a 14% abv imperial stout.

I "krausened" (sort of) I cooled my priming solution and added fresh yeast to that....I let it sit with an air lock until it started to get foamy.

I then added it to my bottling bucket and bottled.

It only slightly carbed, but that was OK for the style.

Champagne yeast could decide it is happier in the bottle and start over carbing in a couple of months.

I would leave this brew in secondary for at least 6 months.

 

[Daparish]

I had some luck bottling a 14% abv imperial stout.

I "krausened" (sort of) I cooled my priming solution and added fresh yeast to that....I let it sit with an air lock until it started to get foamy.

I then added it to my bottling bucket and bottled.

It only slightly carbed, but that was OK for the style.

Champagne yeast could decide it is happier in the bottle and start over carbing in a couple of months.

I would leave this brew in secondary for at least 6 months.

Very good ideas, thanks cheesy. After primary I was planning on splitting this batch in half and oaking one half while leaving the second half plain. I was only planning on secondarying for two months, then bottle conditioning for four months. Bad idea?

 

[cheezydemon3]

I just don't trust the champagne yeast.

What if bottling rouses it to start fermenting a bit more? Bottle bombs or at least overcarbed beer would be horrible for this pricey brew.

Flat beer would be equally disapointing.

If you can keg, carb and bottle from there, that would be ideal, but only after at least 4 months, some warmer temps, and some gentle swirling.

 

[Daparish]

I just don't trust the champagne yeast.

What if bottling rouses it to start fermenting a bit more? Bottle bombs or at least overcarbed beer would be horrible for this pricey brew.

Flat beer would be equally disapointing.

If you can keg, carb and bottle from there, that would be ideal, but only after at least 4 months, some warmer temps, and some gentle swirling.

No kegging capabilities yet, but in two to four months, who knows. I hadn't contemplated the bottling conundrum before brewing. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

[Daparish]

Checked grav yesterday after resuspending teh yeast several times since my last post. We're down to 1.040.

Going slow, but at least we're seeing improvement. I'd still like to get it down to 1.030 or below before I rack to secondary to oak. Anyone else want to weigh in.

P.S. I'm also planning on oaking 3 gallons of the stuff on 1 oz of heavy toast American oak for 2 months. Any thoughts on this plan? Too much? Too little?

 

[greenbirds]

Let it continue on its own. If the gravity is still dropping, there is no reason to add beano/enzymes. At that moment you lose control of your beer since the enzymatic reaction is unpredictable on a homebrew scale.

Don't set a bar for the gravity to reach (1.030). Plenty of imperial stouts are commercially available that are in the mid 1.030's, and there are a few that finish higher. Let your taste be the guide.

I don't have enough experience to comment on the oak. All I can recommend is as with any spice/flavor addition, start low, taste periodically, and be patient. You can always add more, but it's tough to reduce if you overdo it.

 

[Daparish]

Let it continue on its own. If the gravity is still dropping, there is no reason to add beano/enzymes. At that moment you lose control of your beer since the enzymatic reaction is unpredictable on a homebrew scale.

Don't set a bar for the gravity to reach (1.030). Plenty of imperial stouts are commercially available that are in the mid 1.030's, and there are a few that finish higher. Let your taste be the guide.

I don't have enough experience to comment on the oak. All I can recommend is as with any spice/flavor addition, start low, taste periodically, and be patient. You can always add more, but it's tough to reduce if you overdo it.

Thanks for the guidance. I've been tasting to hydro samples as I take them it's still overly sweet. 1.030 was a guess-timation on where the sweetness/ABV would meet. I'll take your advice on the oaking but for some reason if it does come out too oaky, I'll just blend it with the non-oaked 3 gallon portion to taste then bottle.