High Bush Cranberry Wine mk2 2019

[Mizamook]

My first High Bush Cranberry wine came out pretty nicely, albeit rather tart.

It is Autumn here, as it is many places, and the high bush cranberries succeed the blueberries, red huckleberries, and black huckleberries. It is lovely out there!

I'm attempting another High Bush Cranberry wine, and upping the size.

Right now I'm trying to decide how to properly panic, as nothing ... NOTHING! ... is happening. If panic, then ... what? Add more ____? Pitch a different yeast? (I only have EC-1118 on hand) Wait longer? Tomorrow is day three ...

Currently 1.089, pH 3.6, .6% tartaric, pitched yeast (hydrated K1-V1116) after 18 hours past 4 Campden tabs, much stirring, temp approx. 62F, a day later dry-pitched another K1-V1116, a full day after that, and Fermax additions, still no activity.

How to defeat natural tendency of high bush cranberries to resist fermentation start?

I didn't title this post anything like "please help" or "fermentation not starting" as I'd rather the post be about the wine, rather than the fact that it's starting as a problem (not starting) ... assuming, of course, it turns into wine, rather than sugary cranberry water.

I really hope to figure out how to do this without the yeast anxiety next time! For the high bush cranberry mead (melomel) I will get the mead going strong, then add my cranberries.

 

[Blacksmith1]

If you do this again, make a starter so you are giving the yeast an advantage. I have found some high acid musts benefit from sending an invasion force numbering in the trillions. In the mean time I'd give it another day or two to see if what you have pitched can make a go of it.

 

[Seamonkey84]

Cranberry is notorious for having a hard time fermenting or getting stuck as it’s very acidic. Usually have to add some water to it. Otherwise, add some potassium carbonate, it’ll buffer the ph and provide the yeast some potassium. Making a starter would be a good idea, or at least step feed some must to the rehydrated yeast over the course of an hour or two before pitching them in.

 

[Mizamook]

So a couple things: Is pH 3.6 considered high acid? In my earlier HBC wine, I had the same problem, but that's when I got my pH meter, and found the pH was 1.6 ... and added more water and calcium carbonate to bring it to pH 2.4 .... and according to my notes, I also pitched Montrachet (that was Day 6 after two attempts with EC-1118) and saw activity soon after .. in fact it "finished" in 3 days after that ....

With this current wine, the SG is higher (last year's wine started at 1.064, this year's is just under 1.090), and I approached it using pH meter as well as my new acid test kit ... seemed to both say I was OK ... I did have to add potassium carbonate to it to bring it up ... should I add more?

The cranberry intensity/flavor is not as strong as I'd have liked in this batch. If I add more water ... I'll dilute it further. If I do that, I must needs add more cranberry after it's going strong? (and sugar to bring my SG back up to "wine" level ... I'm using dextrose for this one. Perhaps I should go with organic cane sugar or honey to add some additional nutrients?)

Since I used the K1-V1116, a "killer strain" I thought would be perfect for the challenges of benzoate busting ... I can't now use Montrachet, can I, as if the K1 is active at all it will just destroy the Montrachet?

As for step feeding and nutrition: When assembling the ingredients I added a big handful organic raisins, and on the second day added 4 tsp Fermaid O, and 2 tsp Fermax, as well as a nice dollop of Concord Grape extract.

My initial pitch on the 2nd of Sept. was a "semi-starter" maybe? 50ml water at 95F, let sit 15, stir, then add 1.2 cup or so of the must, let sit another 15 ... added a bit more, let sit, a few more minutes, and pitched. I won't say it was a "real" stater as it certainly was not very active or developed. Some foam, yes. After I pitched gently, I waited a bit, then stirred. I like stirring the living crap out of my wines and meads but had oxygenated this must in that manner before ... after pitching I waited for a couple hours before doing it again. The primary is a stainless steel turkey/crab cooker ... so I've got lots of room to stir with great vigor!

So no activity today after leaving the pot in front of the wood stove all night (a cool spot but warmer than on the floor). I'll try some more water and potassium carbonate ... what's my target pH?

Since my other HBC wine took nearly 5 full days to start, and then only 3 to finish, I'm still "OK" ... yeesh ...

Thanks a bunch!

 

[Seamonkey84]

3.6ph should be fine to start actually, don’t know what to say there. It should be doing something by now.

 

[Mizamook]

Indeed! DO something, I scream at it. I thought I saw maybe a hint of "something" earlier today, and then busied myself playing with my new-to-me 15 gallon Spike brewing kettle ... and now a nice double IPA sits waiting to start fermenting, and I go over to check the HBC wine .... nope ... aaaaaigh! Well, give it another night.

IN the meantime I have to figure out what to do with almost 1/2 gallon EXTRA 1.091 IPA wort ... hmmmm.

3.6ph should be fine to start actually, don’t know what to say there. It should be doing something by now.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Get some honey and make a braggot.

 

[Mizamook]

Definitely been thinking about a braggot lately. What I actually did "might" qualify (where shall I post it?) It involves buckwheat honey, spruce tips, heather tips and was topped up with actively fermenting mead....

A week or three ago I took my slop bucket out after racking a wine, a few meads, and a spruce tip beer over a few days ... the resultant bubbly mess smelled amazing! Why did I toss it into compost? Mebbe I'll start being methodical about my slops and go for what could be either the most disgusting or the most genius brew ...

My cranberry wine isn't ... still. Rather, it is still, but not in the "I've finished fermenting" kind of way .. as in "still born". So I dry pitched a packet of Montrachet like I did in the same situation a year ago. We'll know by the end of the day.

Get some honey and make a braggot.

 

[Dland]

Is this "highbush cranberry" viburnum trilobum? I always wondered if these were edible, I use them in landscapes sometimes.

 

[Mizamook]

Yes, to the best of my internet-educated non-scientific knowledge. Also, people frequently report them as "smelly" or "gym socks stinky" and I won't deny that, but if picked BEFORE the major frost, they taste just like Gramma's Thanksgiving cranberry side dish. I think there is some kind of internal fermentation that happens. Strange, it doesn't happen after I pick and freeze/thaw them ... only of they are on the bush.

Here are a couple photos ... one is showing how "some folks" need to learn to chew. The other is in ripe/autumnal foliage ...the big yellow leaves are Devil's Club.

Is this "highbush cranberry" viburnum trilobum? I always wondered if these were edible, I use them in landscapes sometimes.

 

[Dland]

Those look like viburnum leaves. I know the birds like those berries all winter, maybe will add to a cider sometime to add color.

 

[Mizamook]

Add a lot! Well, rather, add the right amount. It takes a lot to make color other than a pale orange ... I'll post some photos in my other mead link, which will show how the brilliant red fades.

Also, see photo here ... this shows a variation I've been observing .. berries from bushes right next to each other have significant look and flavor differences! The larger, more luminous slightly less-deep red color taste wonderful, whereas the smaller darker ones taste more acrid, and less yummy, and are also more prone to weirdness. I can't tell you why .. these bushes LOOK the same otherwise, but I've noticed this in more than one area.


My HBC wine, which is still dead in the water, so to speak, was never really red, and it was a pretty decent amount of berries. If it ever starts I'll add more once it gets going. Gives me an excuse to get out in the forest and pick those beautiful luminous jewels ... (and yes, leaving plenty for birds and varmints)

Those look like viburnum leaves. I know the birds like those berries all winter, maybe will add to a cider sometime to add color.

 

[Mizamook]

Weird.

No activity. Lots of stirring/aeration, sitting on heat pad (must is 76F).

Took another reading just out of curiosity:

Hydrometer and refractometer agree: 1.095 to 1.099 (ish)

Will add water.

 

[Dland]

I would not add water, I'd add some more alcohol tolerant yeast. But am a mainly a beer brewer these days, so not my area of experience.

Back to the plants, apparently there are at least two varieties of high bush cranberry, American and European. In the native berries taste good, those of introduced species do not. In some parts of the country the European ones are more common due to landscape trade. Likely in AK, you have the good ones.

 

[Mizamook]

Normally, neither would I ... dilution of flavor and all that is good! But in this case:

Ladies and Gents, we have LIFTOFF!

It makes sense that we have here introduced cranberries ... although WHY the previous owner (an avid landscaper ... it's a neat place!) would introduce high bush cranberries. The highest concentration of the "not so good" variety is on the verge of the yard. Fewer out in the greater acreage/forest. When the leaves come back I'll pay more attention ... just as I was trying to figure out the several types of blueberries we have here earlier this season.

I would not add water, I'd add some more alcohol tolerant yeast. But am a mainly a beer brewer these days, so not my area of experience.

Back to the plants, apparently there are at least two varieties of high bush cranberry, American and European. In the native berries taste good, those of introduced species do not. In some parts of the country the European ones are more common due to landscape trade. Likely in AK, you have the good ones.

 

[Mizamook]

20.4 Brix (refractometer), 1.083 (uncorrected hydrometer) is what I added water to attain. Very strange that it looked like the gravity was increasing over the life of the must up until last night. My theory is that my dextrose was not fully dissolved, and, as well, the berries were breaking down and releasing sugars.

Also ... one little suspicion: I noticed the package of the cheesecloth that I was using for the berries (which I removed day before yesterday) ... it indicated "bleached". Ya think ... maybe ... residual bleach in the cheesecloth adding to the already challenged yeasties with the high gravity and cranberry benzoate whatever?

 

[Dland]

The two types are hard to tell apart without magnifying glass, hopefully links to pictures below work.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hig...kKHW7pBrEQ9QEwA3oECAQQBg#imgrc=JYYBc7-_s0ApCM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=hig...kKHW7pBrEQ9QEwBHoECAQQCQ#imgrc=utISJTbovQwiEM:

 

[Mizamook]

Thanks ... the links work, and I'll take a good look. I was picking yesterday (a busy day, likely one of the last "harvest days") and I found that another bush of berries growing right next to the bush I was picking had similar smaller, darker, more numerous berries ... I thought those were "the bad ones". On a lark, I tried one, and was surprised .. the flavor was tart, but also had some light notes of something akin to raspberry, strawberry, watermelon ... or a combination .. ?

Soon I augment my HBC wine with another load of berries and sugar. The fermentation is cooking along (yeah, like at 77F!) quickly ... was 1.032 or thereabouts yesterday. Hard to tell with all that fizz!

The two types are hard to tell apart without magnifying glass, hopefully links to pictures below work.

https://www.google.com/search?q=highbush+cranberry+american+vs+european&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=JYYBc7-_s0ApCM%3A%2Cupz4uq6EcACdoM%2C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kR2IJmWJSpdz0blGSCV-F-BvxPnZQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwit6_2RxYzlAhXSjFkKHW7pBrEQ9QEwA3oECAQQBg#imgrc=JYYBc7-_s0ApCM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=highbush+cranberry+american+vs+european&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=utISJTbovQwiEM%3A%2Cupz4uq6EcACdoM%2C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kR5rKxqlD50QnDB6uegRXam4__P6g&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwit6_2RxYzlAhXSjFkKHW7pBrEQ9QEwBHoECAQQCQ#imgrc=utISJTbovQwiEM:

 

[AkTom]

Not to hijack your thread... here is 5 gallons of fireweed wine.

 

[Mizamook]

I'm super happy to have my thread hijacked with a post like that. Been SUPER curious about fireweed ... I have this idea that the pith might yield fermentable sugars .. maybe enough for beer? As you know Alaskans have honey, or ... ?
Please - do tell about the fireweed wine!

View attachment 647540
Not to hijack your thread... here is 5 gallons of fireweed wine.

 

[AkTom]

Here is some where I harvested. I just used the flowers. My first fireweed wine, so the results are yet to be tasted. If I remember correctly, I used about 3.5 gallons of flowers. Might have been a bit much. We had a great fireweed season this year. Warm and not much rain. Remind me in a couple of months for an update.

 

[Mizamook]

Oh, yeah .. I remember Soldotna ... (used to live in Homer). We're currently in Gustavus now ... loads of the stuff here as well ... and how! I'll try to remember to remind you ... or just post a tasting result! Had hot/dry summer here, too ... bumper crop of blueberries, red hucks, black hucks, and AK Blues ... made a 6 gal batch of Black hucks and AK blues (I call them black hucks Gustavus Grapes) using 24lbs of berries. Gonna be an interesting thing to rack it off secondary soon ... might be a candidate for oaking, but not sure what type of oak might be best.

View attachment 647541
Here is some where I harvested. I just used the flowers. My first fireweed wine, so the results are yet to be tasted. If I remember correctly, I used about 3.5 gallons of flowers. Might have been a bit much. We had a great fireweed season this year. Warm and not much rain. Remind me in a couple of months for an update.

 

[ten80]

I like American white oak with medium toast for ciders and fruit wines. I buy oak sticks on Ebay, cut them into cubes, boil them for 5 minutes to remove excess tannins, then soak them in spirits for 3+ months before adding to carboy or keg. Brandy works well for fruit wines as it imparts additional fruitiness and some sweet alcohol notes.

I tried toasting locally-sourced alder cubes once, then soaking them in brandy and they came out tasting of boozy strawberries. Haven't found the right wine to put them in yet.

 

[Mizamook]

How did you determine that the oak had excess tannins to be boiled off? Curious about that.

I ended up with a couple spirals of French Medium+ and a couple carboy sticks of Hungarian Medium. I plan to spread these out over several batches with control splits so I can learn the effects. First thing I did was take a couple little bits of broken French Oak (the spirals came slightly damaged) and chucked them into a growler of kit wine I have lurking down there.

Neat comments on the brandy. Makes me want to do it. Does the quality of the brandy matter overmuch?

Interesting regarding the alder - had you tried it without the brandy?

I like American white oak with medium toast for ciders and fruit wines. I buy oak sticks on Ebay, cut them into cubes, boil them for 5 minutes to remove excess tannins, then soak them in spirits for 3+ months before adding to carboy or keg. Brandy works well for fruit wines as it imparts additional fruitiness and some sweet alcohol notes.

I tried toasting locally-sourced alder cubes once, then soaking them in brandy and they came out tasting of boozy strawberries. Haven't found the right wine to put them in yet.

 

[Farside]

I'm going to try making HBC wine this year.

I just picked about 5lbs to start and put them in a pot with some water and then simmered them until the berries would easily pop. About 10 mins.

I'm thinking that the boil will drive off some of those aroma compounds.

As it cooled it thickened so there is pectin in there. I added some enzyme once it had cooled somewhat.

I'll be fermenting with a cider yeast on the fruit for about 3 weeks to extract as much color out of the berries as I can.

 

[Akwine]

My first High Bush Cranberry wine came out pretty nicely, albeit rather tart.

It is Autumn here, as it is many places, and the high bush cranberries succeed the blueberries, red huckleberries, and black huckleberries. It is lovely out there!

I'm attempting another High Bush Cranberry wine, and upping the size.

Right now I'm trying to decide how to properly panic, as nothing ... NOTHING! ... is happening. If panic, then ... what? Add more ____? Pitch a different yeast? (I only have EC-1118 on hand) Wait longer? Tomorrow is day three ...

Currently 1.089, pH 3.6, .6% tartaric, pitched yeast (hydrated K1-V1116) after 18 hours past 4 Campden tabs, much stirring, temp approx. 62F, a day later dry-pitched another K1-V1116, a full day after that, and Fermax additions, still no activity.

How to defeat natural tendency of high bush cranberries to resist fermentation start?

I didn't title this post anything like "please help" or "fermentation not starting" as I'd rather the post be about the wine, rather than the fact that it's starting as a problem (not starting) ... assuming, of course, it turns into wine, rather than sugary cranberry water.

I really hope to figure out how to do this without the yeast anxiety next time! For the high bush cranberry mead (melomel) I will get the mead going strong, then add my cranberries.

Hello!! I’m from Alaska too!! I’m new to wine making and the high Bush cranberry is my favorite berry!!! Would you happen to have a recipe for making wine with them?????

 

[Akwine]

Thanks ... the links work, and I'll take a good look. I was picking yesterday (a busy day, likely one of the last "harvest days") and I found that another bush of berries growing right next to the bush I was picking had similar smaller, darker, more numerous berries ... I thought those were "the bad ones". On a lark, I tried one, and was surprised .. the flavor was tart, but also had some light notes of something akin to raspberry, strawberry, watermelon ... or a combination .. ?

Soon I augment my HBC wine with another load of berries and sugar. The fermentation is cooking along (yeah, like at 77F!) quickly ... was 1.032 or thereabouts yesterday. Hard to tell with all that fizz!

Does anyone have a recipe for high Bush cranberry wine???!

 

[Farside]

I'm just fermenting on the straight berries and added some pectin enzyme because if I didn't, it would be cranberry jelly lol. I'll keep adding fruit as I pick them and once it's done I'll remove the skins and pits, add some sugar and put it into a carboy.

 

[Mizamook]

Hi, so where are you? Curious. As for recipes, the biggest challenge with high bush cranberries is to get them fermenting, as that whatever-it-is compound in them tries to prevent it. I think I "discovered" (that is, learned for myself despite other people already knowing it) is that adding more cranberries later is helpful, rather than making it as strong cranberry flavor at first. SO basically take some cranberries, pectic enzyme, some water, and some sugar, and mix it all together (after freezing and mashing the cranberries ... use a strainer to remove pits if you must or can, but leave the skins for color as much as possible). Make it kinda weak .. you can add sugar and cranberries more later after it starts. Go for a starting gravity of 1.060-1.080 at most. Then add more berries and sugar later. To cook or not to cook is a big question in my mind .. cooking "fixes" the pectin, so might be harder for the pectic enzyme to work. There is a LOT of pectin in these berries! I've found some cloudy "stuff" in my bottles from the last batch I made (see above posts) but it does not affect the enjoyment of the wine.

If you want, I'll send my notes.

Here's the other thing though: I find high bush cranberry mead to be more enjoyable than wine. Easier, too. Here's my new method for that: Make mead. That's easy ... take some honey and water, and a handful of raisins or nutrients, mix the honey with warm water, and add yeast if you must. If you don't boil your raw honey you will have mead anyway. If the wild yeasts fizzle out before they attenuate to the level you want, you can add EC1118 .. I have, and do, and other yeasts besides. Yes, they do cohabitate. Don't worry.

So anyway, after the mead is good and foamy (you stir every day until it gets going well .. the oxygen is important! .Then STOP stirring, the lack of additional oxygen is more important!) you can then add cranberries to your working mead. When it slows down, rack it and transfer to secondary in carboy -- you can add more cranberries then, too, liquid is better than berries, but if you upsize, you will not lose a ton to racking losses and lees.

Adding cranberries later during strong fermentation is better as it does not induce the possible mold-making lag time, and not so much worry.

OK, enough for now. I think I'll have some cranberry mead tonight ....

Hello!! I’m from Alaska too!! I’m new to wine making and the high Bush cranberry is my favorite berry!!! Would you happen to have a recipe for making wine with them?????

 

[Mizamook]

Very curious how this comes out. I did not "cook" mine, but they did have boiled water put over. I didn't end up with thickening, but "stuff" did show up and make me worry. Yes .. pectic enzyme is our friend. I think maybe more than suggested on the package.

Almost cranberry season!

I'm just fermenting on the straight berries and added some pectin enzyme because if I didn't, it would be cranberry jelly lol. I'll keep adding fruit as I pick them and once it's done I'll remove the skins and pits, add some sugar and put it into a carboy.

 

[Mizamook]

Also: The myth that these taste better after a frost is just that: Myth. I've now tasted high bush cranberries from last winter (still on the bush despite being springtime!) and also the berries just now ripening. As well the berries after a frost, etc. If they are ripe, they taste like: High bush cranberries!

I humbly submit that the myth started as in different weather/climates the cranberries were just barely getting ripe and were fully ripe as they were going to get by the time the first frost rolled around. Yes, they are lots better when ripe!

 

[Farside]

I'm in Northwest Ontario, Canada.
Funny I had no issues at all getting mine started. That being said, I didn't add much sugar at all. The pectin had gelled and I couldn't get a gravity reading. I'm going to guess there's enough sugar in the berries to take it to 5% and go from there.

I added a second addition of berries yesterday and things are rolling along nicely.