High abv Wit help

[Hastein]

I've been inspired to make a strong "Wit style" beer. By strong I mean a minimum of 10%, possibly as high as 12%. I have not made a wit or used a wit yeast before and the problem I see is that the White Labs wit yeasts are for 8% or below. Is there another yeast that I can add to the wort that will go beyond 10% without over powering the wit flavors? Possibly WLP099 SUPER HIGH GRAVITY ALE YEAST or WLP090 SAN DIEGO SUPER YEAST?

If it helps my plans were to make a small batch around 3-4 gallons and bottle them to age for special occasions and such. I would be using extract. The only reasons I've mentioned White Labs is because that is what I typically use. I'm open to using any yeast.

Thanks

 

[RmikeVT]

Are you trying to make a wheat wine or a wit. They only way you are going to get a wit is by using wit yeast, and they are medium alcohol tolerant. I have had some delicious weizenbocks which are strong hefe's. They sit around 8%. But if you are looking for something like a wheat wine then you have many other yeast options. Here is a byo recipe:

https://byo.com/stories/item/642-fine-wheatwine

You could also try blending the yeast. You will need a really big starter so you could make a starter of Wit yeast and pitch that and then dump in a vile of a more alcohol tolerant yeast, so the wit yeast will impart that wit flavor, conk out around 8% and then the other yeast will finish drying out the beer.

 

[Hastein]

Are you trying to make a wheat wine or a wit. They only way you are going to get a wit is by using wit yeast, and they are medium alcohol tolerant. I have had some delicious weizenbocks which are strong hefe's. They sit around 8%. But if you are looking for something like a wheat wine then you have many other yeast options. Here is a byo recipe:

https://byo.com/stories/item/642-fine-wheatwine

You could also try blending the yeast. You will need a really big starter so you could make a starter of Wit yeast and pitch that and then dump in a vile of a more alcohol tolerant yeast, so the wit yeast will impart that wit flavor, conk out around 8% and then the other yeast will finish drying out the beer.

Not a wit per se, but something that has the same citrus/orange characteristics. I guess what I have envisioned in my head is like a dessert beer that is sweet and citrusy with a high abv.

Blending the yeast like you mentioned was my first thought. Although, I had never heard of a wheat wine. Maybe that is the direction I need to go. I'll look more into that when I get home. Thanks for the link.

 

[zmanzorro]

I'm currently making a ~ 10% ABV fruit wheat beer (not really to any style) and I'm using the Wyeast 3638 Bavarian Wheat strain, which has an alcohol tolerance of 10%. If the initial fermentation explosion I experienced is any indication, I think it is working quite well!

 

[Teromous]

Sam Adams does an Imperial Wit that's around 10% ABV. It seems to be one of those beers that people love or hate. I really like it. Remember that you always have the option to use more than one yeast strain if you need more attenuation. To keep the character of the wit yeast down, temperature control (at lower temps) and proper pitching rates are key. Good luck!

 

[NTexBrewer]

Wits are one of my favorite styles and I have brewed several batches. They have all been in the normal gravity range. The one thing that I have noticed is that they lose the coriander/orange flavor and aroma over time. They also have lost their cloudiness.

This style is meant to be drunk fresh to take advantage of the cloudiness and aromas.

This may be lost if you plan to age them for a while.

I have noticed that swirling and including some of the yeast sediment helps bring some of the aroma back from older bottles.

 

[Hastein]

Wits are one of my favorite styles and I have brewed several batches. They have all been in the normal gravity range. The one thing that I have noticed is that they lose the coriander/orange flavor and aroma over time. They also have lost their cloudiness.

This style is meant to be drunk fresh to take advantage of the cloudiness and aromas.

This may be lost if you plan to age them for a while.

I have noticed that swirling and including some of the yeast sediment helps bring some of the aroma back from older bottles.

That is something I hadn't considered. Thanks for pointing that out! :smack:

 

[cjgenever]

Brew a strong koelsch (or other light beer with 1056/001/us-05) a week or two before. Making it strong (maybe 7%?) Will prep the yeast for the next beer.
As the wit slows down( maybe four days) pull the koelsch off the cake for packaging. Rack the wit off the Belgian yeast onto the neutral flavored higher abv tolerant yeast with a little yeast energizer.

 

[Hastein]

Brew a strong koelsch (or other light beer with 1056/001/us-05) a week or two before. Making it strong (maybe 7%?) Will prep the yeast for the next beer.
As the wit slows down( maybe four days) pull the koelsch off the cake for packaging. Rack the wit off the Belgian yeast onto the neutral flavored higher abv tolerant yeast with a little yeast energizer.

Should I plan for the first beer to be ~7% or so and then add more fermentables when I transfer it over with the new yeast to bring it up to the ~10%? Or should I just brew a ~10% beer from the start and only add the new yeast and energizer when transferring?

Thanks everyone for all of your input.

 

[cjgenever]

Should I plan for the first beer to be ~7% or so and then add more fermentables when I transfer it over with the new yeast to bring it up to the ~10%? Or should I just brew a ~10% beer from the start and only add the new yeast and energizer when transferring?

Thanks everyone for all of your input.

1) Use a smaller beer (ie 7% koelsch or other neutral beer with us-05/001/1056 yeast) to grow a large amount of alcohol tolerant yeast.

2) ferment the big wit with all the fermentables from the start.

3) when the wit yeast starts to slow transfer on top of the while yeast cake from the 'smaller' beer.

The wit yeast will give you the flavor profile and the cal ale yeast will finish the ferment to 10%. You can add some of your simple sugars after the transfer if you want, but it should be fine either way. Might prevent some blow off off you add some later. I wouldn't push the cal ale strain past 10%. I've heard of it going to 12, but that's pushing it.

Btw... you're going to get crazy Krausen with Belgian strain and all those fermentables. Plenty of headspace and a blow off will be needed. The alcohol may add a touch of sweetness necessitating more bittering. Not sure why a DIP wit, but good luck!

I like that...dipwit

 

[cjgenever]

Should I plan for the first beer to be ~7% or so and then add more fermentables when I transfer it over with the new yeast to bring it up to the ~10%? Or should I just brew a ~10% beer from the start and only add the new yeast and energizer when transferring?

Thanks everyone for all of your input.

1) Use a smaller beer (ie 7% koelsch or other neutral beer with us-05/001/1056 yeast) to grow a large amount of alcohol tolerant yeast.

2) ferment the big wit with all the fermentables from the start.

3) when the wit yeast starts to slow transfer on top of the while yeast cake from the 'smaller' beer.

The wit yeast will give you the flavor profile and the cal ale yeast will finish the ferment to 10%. You can add some of your simple sugars after the transfer if you want, but it should be fine either way. Might prevent some blow off off you add some later. I wouldn't push the cal ale strain past 10%. I've heard of it going to 12, but that's pushing it.

Btw... you're going to get crazy Krausen with Belgian strain and all those fermentables. Plenty of headspace and a blow off will be needed. The alcohol may add a touch of sweetness necessitating more bittering. Not sure why a DIP wit, but good luck!

I like that...dipwit

 

[slarkin712]

I've made an "imperial witbier" that was around 8.5-9% ABV. It was based off a beer available around St. Louis called Charleville Triple Wit. I used the Wyeast Witbier yeast 3944. I didn't need to support it with another yeast, it just powered through it. I don't remember where it finished, but it was no higher than 1.014. That said, if you did want to supplement it with another yeast I would use a belgian yeast like wyeast 3787. It has no problem with higher gravities. I would let the wit yeast get down below 50% expected attenuation and then add the 3787 to help it finish. Also, when I made mine I added higher than normal rates(for a belgian wit) of fresh orange zest and crushed coriander, as I thought it might age a little. It was great from the start, but the orange and coriander dissipated pretty quickly.