Herms in a tube?

[postalbunny]

That is EXACTLY what I need. How do you handle switching the second HLT element on and off without blowing the 50amp limit? Any chance a shot at the front of your panel for your interface layout? looks like you fond some smaller Contactors and DC supplies? Its a shame that Kal is charging $100 more than Auber for the same panel... But Auber doesn't offer the one drilled for four Elements, Haven't tried calling them yet though. Are you running a DC water pump?

I ran the power the enables the 2nd HLT's contactor through the boil kettles switch but with the Normally Closed attachment. you can fit two of those NO or NC dongles on the back, but you can stack more. so I ran a circuit that basically only enables the contractor for the 2nd element if the BK is "off" as safety. then I made my primary element in HLT a 3500watt. that with the 2500 RIMS and 5500 HLT is just about 47amps.

this let's me start my brew day by using 9kw to heat the strike up while I hookup hoses.

you could do something similar with a single element panel by just borrowing the BK plug and connecting it to a second element in the HLT. the main thing is to calc the total watts/amps and make sure you don't exceed any components. I have a 50amp wall GFCI, a 60amp main contactor, then 25 amp contractors on each of the 4x elements and 25amp breaker on each. this hopefully protects the wiring, and me from myself.

 

[postalbunny]

when I get back I'll post some more detailed shots... I swapped all the normal stuff out for DIN so it would be tighter... was running out of room. also easier to replace bad parts (fingers crossed). plus, things like another 12vdc supply for a small water pump slide in.

 

[Elfmaze]

when I get back I'll post some more detailed shots... I swapped all the normal stuff out for DIN so it would be tighter... was running out of room. also easier to replace bad parts (fingers crossed). plus, things like another 12vdc supply for a small water pump slide in.

I've been looking at Kals 30+ gallon Box for the past week or so... It seems with the larger contactors even with the DIN components there is not quite room for four contactors, I had given up on the dual element HLT plan But had figured out how to fit three elements worth of breakers etc on the Rail. With the smaller components you found looks like four DOES fit!

 

[Elfmaze]

I ran the power the enables the 2nd HLT's contactor through the boil kettles switch but with the Normally Closed attachment. you can fit two of those NO or NC dongles on the back, but you can stack more. so I ran a circuit that basically only enables the contractor for the 2nd element if the BK is "off" as safety. then I made my primary element in HLT a 3500watt. that with the 2500 RIMS and 5500 HLT is just about 47amps.

Looks like my HLT is 2 x 4500w, RIMS is 4500w and BK is 4500w. So even with only one HLT element firing that's still 62Amps on my system. Guess I need to give up on that dream unless I want to hardwire to a dedicated panel. BUT, if I had an HTL1/RIMS switch and a BK/HLT2 switch I could get pretty good flexibility on the system while staying around 41Amps draw for the main burners.

 

[augiedoggy]

I ran the power the enables the 2nd HLT's contactor through the boil kettles switch but with the Normally Closed attachment. you can fit two of those NO or NC dongles on the back, but you can stack more. so I ran a circuit that basically only enables the contractor for the 2nd element if the BK is "off" as safety. then I made my primary element in HLT a 3500watt. that with the 2500 RIMS and 5500 HLT is just about 47amps.

this let's me start my brew day by using 9kw to heat the strike up while I hookup hoses.

you could do something similar with a single element panel by just borrowing the BK plug and connecting it to a second element in the HLT. the main thing is to calc the total watts/amps and make sure you don't exceed any components. I have a 50amp wall GFCI, a 60amp main contactor, then 25 amp contractors on each of the 4x elements and 25amp breaker on each. this hopefully protects the wiring, and me from myself.

this is also what I'm doing on both my systems. at home I use a 4500w HLT and a 1800w rims and both are on at the same time running off a 30a circuit. (If the rims was 120v it would draw twice the amps making this impossible)
my 5500w BK is using the NO/NC relay contacts to only allow either my hlt/rims to be active or BK at one time.

at the brewpub I have 2 60a feeds and needed to do the same due to 120a of power and 206amps of total element draw if they were all on at once.

 

[augiedoggy]

Looks like my HLT is 2 x 4500w, RIMS is 4500w and BK is 4500w. So even with only one HLT element firing that's still 62Amps on my system. Guess I need to give up on that dream unless I want to hardwire to a dedicated panel. BUT, if I had an HTL1/RIMS switch and a BK/HLT2 switch I could get pretty good flexibility on the system while staying around 41Amps draw for the main burners.

if your 4500w rims is a 240v element then it only draws about 18 amps... with one HLT firing to raise to sparge temps while your 4500w rims is going your only looking at 34-36 amp draw total... I used to run a 2000w rims at the same time as my 4500w HLT and even with the panel and pumps it was always below 30a.

there has never been a point in my brewing history where I needed to have my HLT ,rims and BK all on at the same time... The only time you would is if your doing a double batch brewday...

 

[postalbunny]

if your 4500w rims is a 240v element then it only draws about 18 amps... with one HLT firing to raise to sparge temps while your 4500w rims is going your only looking at 34-36 amp draw total... I used to run a 2000w rims at the same time as my 4500w HLT and even with the panel and pumps it was always below 30a.

there has never been a point in my brewing history where I needed to have my HLT ,rims and BK all on at the same time... The only time you would is if your doing a double batch brewday...

If you heat up your HLT water hot enough you probably would never need that scenario. I can't mix hot/cold water because i'm using RO... so i need my HLT to be the strike or sparge temp if i'm doing any kind of double batching. Single batch brew day would be fine... once the wort sparge/runoff allowed turning the BK element on I would probably not need HLT heating anymore. I used to have a 50amp dual element setup and did single 10-15gallon batches. I found myself doing more back-to-back 5g batches... usually 3x in a brewday so i can vary malt bills or have different styles going. That led to redoing the panel to allow back-to-back (having everything be able to be "on" but only one element, rather than firing two 5500watt elements in HLT or BK).

I usually do at least 2 brews a day, so when doing back-to-back brewing i'll have my BK boiling, my RIMs tube maintaining a mash, and the HLT 3500w element keeping hot water at 170degF and/or the strike of the next mash-in. It's nice to be able to have all 3x... i could probably insulate the HLT, or heat it to 212 and turn it off if i had a mixing valve with cold RO water.

 

[postalbunny]

I've been looking at Kals 30+ gallon Box for the past week or so... It seems with the larger contactors even with the DIN components there is not quite room for four contactors, I had given up on the dual element HLT plan But had figured out how to fit three elements worth of breakers etc on the Rail. With the smaller components you found looks like four DOES fit!

I believe Kal offers the kits with DIN components now, and they're prob a lot cleaner than my setup. You can def fit all the breakers and contactors no problem, i was able to put them on a single rail. That allowed me room for the 120V breaker, safe-lock, and Power Supplies on the top of the box.

Some things I did differently...
1) adding another SSR at the top for the RIMs, wiring this to the "mash" PID through a flow switch using a stereo headphone connector (got idea from Auggie). This way the RIMs element only fires if flow is present, less risk of scorching
2) Changed out the element switches for ones that have LEDs in them so i could have more room for more switches. Now the LED for the switch fires with the element. Having an element "on" LED next to a switch took up too much room.
3) Created a "HLT 2" for the 2nd element in HLT... wired it through a NC block on the BK switch so either BK 5500w is on or the HLT 5500w is on. The safe-lock circuit also goes through here to protect me from myself
4) Added a 3rd pump... for HLT, i used one of those little 12vdc pumps to recirc water in the HLT, used a DIN rail power supply and a little head-phone jack sized power plug for this.

I ordered my DIN components from a mixture of places.. I know i got some from Kal, amazon, ebrewhardware, and ebay.. The rest i sourced from amazon/ebay... looking at model numbers to get dimensions. It's not as tight as I thought it was going to be. The biggest space savings was using 25amp relays and contactors... 30 was slightly bigger and i'm not firing that much off one port anyway. You can even extend the DIN rail past the back sheet if you needed to... but by converting all the components to DIN i saved a ton of space

Here's the links for the stuff I bought that I can find in my history, in case it helps:

12V DC:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DECZVY6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

5V DC:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005T6RBSO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

25A Breaker i used for each element was this one (type "C"
ALTECH 2BU25R 25 AMP CIRCUIT BREAKER - 2 POLE, 25A, DIN RAIL, 480Y/277 VAC

6A breaker i used for the 120v stuff:
ALTECH 2BU25R 25 AMP CIRCUIT BREAKER - 2 POLE, 25A, DIN RAIL, 480Y/277 VAC

the 25A contactors i ordered:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EJ38RDA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I can't find the 63a, but i don't recall the spacing/sizing being crazy on any of those. I def purchased the safe-lock from Kal and din rails themselves. I'll see if i can find a pic of the bottom and top to throw in here if it help.

Pic of the front:

Panel before converting:

Panel after DIN upgrade:

 

[Elfmaze]

Thanks Postalbunny! that has been incredibly helpful! I Have a list of parts basically together. A mixed order between Auber and Kal's shop. I will be using the four 22mm holes in the bottom for element indicator lights, HLT1, HLT2, BK, and RIMS. top row will be a lighted switch for Water pump, HTL1/RIMS selector, HTL2/ BOIL selector, and Lighted switch for Wort pump. I am thinking of swapping out the "alarm" LED for a "System ready" light inline with the safety interlock. Debating if I want to buy all new EZBoil controllers or stick with the normal PIDs, But the EzBoils have a built in alarm(I think), so alarm circuit might be redundant and I will not be buying a timer or the volt amp meter just yet to save some upfront cash. . My 240v Rail will be identical to your setup.

I will be ordering the panel from Auber. their heat sink is already drilled for three sinks. and included with handles for $150 less than Kal... Only problem is I will have to drill the bottom myself as Auber only sells a panel for the 30amp setup. A bit of elbow grease will be needed but at least the front panel will be ready to go.

 

[postalbunny]

sounds like fun... as for the PID, I'd recommend going with the ezboil. the knob makes adjusting temp easier, and there are some more fun things you can do like ramp, etc. I got mine in a kit from Kal so I had the basic setup. I replaced then timer with one from auber because I had it already and liked it better (alarms for each addition, programmable additions)

 

[Elfmaze]

Orders in! Hopefully it all works out and makes me some tasty beer for the next 30 years to reach the break even point !

FWIT, I don't think I saved much money maybe a few hundred piecing it together from different sites and such... BUT there were NO options on the open market that supported a 9000Watt HLT and RIMS. So now nomatter how I configure the brewery(HERMS, RIMS etc) I can still run it to the max of its electron guzzling potential!