Herms coil size for keggle?

[Ramdough]

I plan on e-brewing and want to use a herms coil. If I am using keggles, what size tube and length should I use for the herms coil? I know Kal uses 1/2x50' coils in his. On a smaller 15 gallon kettle size, would the coil change (besides diameter of coil)?

I am considering:
3/8x50'
3/8x25'
1/2x50'
1/2x25'


I know that most pumps have a throttling valve after them, would just having smaller tubing work well with just less throttle?

Thanks

 

[Docbruw]

I used 1/2x50' in mine. Coiled it around a ball lock keg and it fit just fine.

 

[Bsquared]

You don't necessarily want a smaller diameter because there is a risk of clogging from errant grains from the mash, its better to use a valve you can open fully during the beginning of the recirculation then throttle back.

I'm using 25' 5/8 OD convoluted copper coil from more beer, expensive, and needs to be flushed with acidic solution before use, but works great. If you are going to go with Stainless check out Zach at Stainless brewing, he can fab you a coil for not much more than it would cost you to buy the tubing and forn the coil your self. Without the proper equipment making a HEX coil with Stainless can be challenging

 

[MrNatural]

If you are going to go with Stainless check out Zach at Stainless brewing, he can fab you a coil for not much more than it would cost you to buy the tubing and forn the coil your self. Without the proper equipment making a HEX coil with Stainless can be challenging

I have his 1/2" x 50' x 10" diameter. Great craftsmanship and fits keggle fine.

 

[trango1981]

I wouldn't even try coiling your own coil. The previous post have it right by buying one pre fabricated... I have the 50' mangled and kinked raw coil of 1/2" stainless to prove before getting fed up and ordering one...

 

[Bobby_M]

.035" wall can bend bent around a form with brute strength but .028 or .020 cannot.

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

When I was shopping for a HERMs coil I couldn't find anything that match Zach's quality or price. He'll make whatever you want. I'm pretty happy with the result.

 

[Ramdough]

All, I plan to buy from Zach, so that is not what I am really worried about.

What I was concerned about is that Kal uses 1/2x50 on his 20 gallon kettles. I am using 15 gallon keggles. I was wondering about if I should use a different tube length and tube diameter, or stick to what Kal uses. My coil diameter will be smaller as well, but I think Zach has me covered.

Thanks for the feedback all.

 

[trango1981]

I recently got the following from Zach:
Coiled to customer's request .035 304/304L Coiled Tubing
Size and length: 1/2"OD X 50FT
Diameter of Coil: 10"
Additional bends: 2 Bends (90 degree ends)

I installed them into my Keg HLT using 1/2" compression fittings.
The 10" diameter is a bit tricky to install (getting your wrench between the coil and the keg wall), but once it was in place, it looks great.

Good Luck!

 

[augiedoggy]

I use a plain ole 25' coil of 3/8" copper from home depot...... it does the job just fine so far but I have only done 5 gallon batches thus far. (I dont see how it would matter what size though as the coil either works to bring the wort to desired temp or not.... I set my 12v pump to flow at around full flow depending on grain which with the screen and grain restrictions seems to be about 3/4- 1 gallons a minute or so max

I honestly dont see the need at all for expensive twisted copper since your only adjusting the temp a few degrees up at the most and then maintaining when using a herms coil... The larger diameter coil is only useful if you need the extra flow which is unlikely for recirculating off a grain bed. If you avoid kinks and sharp bends there no way it should plug especially after the false bottom screens it. Nothing wrong with 1/2inch though but why use 50ft if the temp has already equalized in the first 15-20ft or so?? it just means you need to keep more water in the HLT to work correctly.

The expensive twisted stuff really more work to maintain and a waste. Its totally unlike when using a coil at a chiller and you want maximum heat/ cooling transfer.... this is were every last bit of advantage helps... although after switching to my new plate chiller I will never go back to an immersion setup.
The trick with herms is slow enough flow were the grainbed stays intact and avoids a stuck sparge which usually means a low enough flow that even short and small diameter runs of copper will provide even temp transfer.

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

All, I plan to buy from Zach, so that is not what I am really worried about.

What I was concerned about is that Kal uses 1/2x50 on his 20 gallon kettles. I am using 15 gallon keggles. I was wondering about if I should use a different tube length and tube diameter, or stick to what Kal uses. My coil diameter will be smaller as well, but I think Zach has me covered.

Thanks for the feedback all.

I use 1/2" x 25' and it works fine for maintaining temps for 5gal and I've seen builds where folks use the same for 10 with no problem. Now step mashes may be a different beast.

I like the 1/2" because it's less restricted which makes cleaning easier and keeps bits of grain from clogging it.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

I have 3/8 coil, from stout tanks. It is too restrictive, and I'm not able to get the flow I want. I may upgrade to 1/2 inch soon.

As for convoluted coil, I'm not sold on the idea. Looks pretty though

 

[augiedoggy]

I use 1/2" x 25' and it works fine for maintaining temps for 5gal and I've seen builds where folks use the same for 10 with no problem. Now step mashes may be a different beast.

I like the 1/2" because it's less restricted which makes cleaning easier and keeps bits of grain from clogging it.

Think about something... how much more beer is in the coil being heated for a 5 gallon batch versus 10 ( or 20) gallons? Unless your mash run is very poorly insulated it doesn't matter... 3/8 is more efficient for heating the wort for the very same reason everyone goes with 1/2" over 3/8" for cooling.. the wort will equalize with the surrounding waters temp much faster with 2/8 so the only question is flow.. if you have a poorly insulated mash run you need a lot more flow to combat the temp loss.
You need a good screening/ filtering system in your mashtun for higher flow so if you get stuck sparges now a bigger coil or more flow will just make it worse.

 

[Ramdough]

To help with the the suggestions:

My goal is to make 10 gallon batches. I did not plan to insulate the mash keggle.

Based on responses, I am leaning towards the 1/2 tube. Just have to select length. Shorter is cheaper.


Thanks.

 

[Bsquared]

My neighbor built and exact clone of kal's design with the 50' ss coil, he is happy with it but has said it's a little slower to ramp temps than he expected, but has no problem maintaining temps. He runs 10 gallon batches too. Personally I'd go with at least 50' with ss, especially if you are using an un insulated keg as a mash tun. As for Insulation though, if you do decide to insulate in the future, the keg coosy is a nice option, its easy to remove and clean. I've noticed an improvement in mash temp stability with it.

From my experience, I had a 25' 3/8 copper coil in my first system that was based on a 40qt cooler and a separate heat exchange unit with the coil in it. It worked fine for 5 gallon batches, but when i moved up to 10 gallon batches in a keg mash tun it just did not cut it. I could maintain temps okay (about a 1-2ºF drop/hr), but i could no longer ramp to mash out temps. Based on that experience I moved up to the 25' convoluted coil. with it in my HLT, and the HLT set to 170 for the sparge, I can ramp from 150 to 165 in about 10-15min.

My advice is always, buy cheap buy twice. go with the 50' coil. \m/ \m/

 

[augiedoggy]

My neighbor built and exact clone of kal's design with the 50' ss coil, he is happy with it but has said it's a little slower to ramp temps than he expected, but has no problem maintaining temps. He runs 10 gallon batches too. Personally I'd go with at least 50' with ss, especially if you are using an un insulated keg as a mash tun. As for Insulation though, if you do decide to insulate in the future, the keg coosy is a nice option, its easy to remove and clean. I've noticed an improvement in mash temp stability with it.

From my experience, I had a 25' 3/8 copper coil in my first system that was based on a 40qt cooler and a separate heat exchange unit with the coil in it. It worked fine for 5 gallon batches, but when i moved up to 10 gallon batches in a keg mash tun it just did not cut it. I could maintain temps okay (about a 1-2ºF drop/hr), but i could no longer ramp to mash out temps. Based on that experience I moved up to the 25' convoluted coil. with it in my HLT, and the HLT set to 170 for the sparge, I can ramp from 150 to 165 in about 10-15min.

My advice is always, buy cheap buy twice. go with the 50' coil. \m/ \m/

Well to recap and be clear IMHO 50ft may have an advantage with 1/2" coil (copper is a better heat exchanger than stainless so I'm not sure why you would want stainless) but when it comes to 3/8" coil anything beyond 25ft isnt going to give you any advantage because the flow is cut to where the temps will be equal between the hlt and the wort by the time it reaches the end of 25ft....
Convoluted agitates the wort so more of it comes in contact with the coil wall faster and that can help if you are going with 25ft and very high flow rates and 1/2" coil....
also a lot of the the copper coil like sold at home depot is made for or HVAC and mixed with other metals to make it easier to bend and is also thicker walled....
the 99% copper thin walled stuff will work MUCH better according to the Guy at Niagara Traditions homebrew supply and theyve been around for over 20 years and had no reason lie to me. (since they know I use a plate chiller)

 

[smellie_hippie]

I have his 1/2" x 50' x 10" diameter. Great craftsmanship and fits keggle fine.

So I have a quick question...

I have been assembling a parts list for my HERMS build for my keggles. I love the pic of this on Zach's SS site, but I'm not sure about attaching them to the keggle wall. I figure since the coil is competely enclosed, so you don't need a ball valve on this part, and could instead just go with camlock fittings. But what about inside the keggle wall? Does he flare the ends to tighten a nut and washer? Threaded at the end to attach to the male camlock fittings?

EDIT: Nevermind about the first question... I just watched a video on compression fittings. But my second question still stands...

I understand that I might find the answers to these questions by logging into his site and trying to order the part... but I'm about to drop a pretty dime on all the components I need.

Also, how far up the keggle wall should they be mounted? How much space below the coil before the bottom of the keggle?

 

[bcrawfo2]

Make sure you understand his ordering terminology. You don't want one with no bends.
I put mine as low as possible in my pot, just a hair above my heating element. The lower you put it, the less water you have to heat. You should get better transfer if you have more/all the coil submerged.
I put a valve on the bottom port of the coil to facilitate hose changes. I didn't see the benefit of a valve on the top. Have read where people fill the coil with starsan and the close both ports.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[augiedoggy]

You can get the compression fitting as bargainfittings.com as well... thats were I got mine for my old herms setup... I have since gone with a cheap $50 rims tube which works much faster and is consistent.... I didnt have a system in place to constantly mix the water around in my HLT with my herms and that really hurts performance since the temps are uneven.