Help with water profile

[drunken_goat]

Hi,

I am brewing all grain batches in Berlin, Germany, and I recently started to get interested in adjusting my water profiles.

I used to live in the other side of town, and my IPA's came out really hoppy without me having to do any water treatment. But now in my new place, my beers never end up very hoppy, despite the amount of dry hopping I do.

I seems my water is more suitable for dark beers, as they always turn out well. But I would like to brew a NEIPA and a west coast style IPA here, can you please tell me what kind of additions i need to make my brewing water more suitable?

Here is my water profile: (ppm)

Ca - 97.4
Mg - 8.8
Na - 30
SO4 - 91.3
Cl - 127
HCO3 - 231.86

PH 7.2

I would really appreciate any comments, thanks!

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

You will need to reduce your HCO3 via some means of acidification (generally 88% lactic acid, 10% phosphoric acid, or sauermaltz), and for an IPA you will also need to boost the SO4 ions to roughly 200 ppm by adding 1 gram of CaSO4 for every 5 Liters of water.

 

[drunken_goat]

cool, thank you for the reply. Is the Calcium level a little high for an IPA?

 

[xpops]

You will need to reduce your HCO3 via some means of acidification (generally 88% lactic acid, 10% phosphoric acid, or sauermaltz), and for an IPA you will also need to boost the SO4 ions to roughly 200 ppm by adding 1 gram of CaSO4 for every 5 Liters of water.

agreed. i use 88% phosphoric to acidify. works great as you need very little and a bottle goes a long way.

increasing the So4 for the IPA would be correct, but i thought for a NEIPA, the so4:cl "ratio" is typically reverse for some reason, and it should be the Cl that is actually increased?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I think you will hit about 145 ppm and at that level the calcium ions should still be relatively undetectable by the senses.

I'm not familiar with the SO4 requirements for NEIPA's. If the above is true, then you can skip the gypsum addition.

 

[drunken_goat]

yes I am confused whether i need to add calcium chloride or not in that case. Beer smith tells me my so4:cl ratio is 'malty'

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

You certainly don't want to add calcium chloride. Either add CaSO4 (Gypsum) as I suggested, or leave it as it is. You assuredly need to knock out the high alkalinity (bicarbonate, HCO3).

 

[drunken_goat]

So a combination of lowering the PH with sauermalz or lactic acid and adding Gypsum should allow the hop aromas to shine through more right?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

So a combination of lowering the PH with sauermalz or lactic acid and adding Gypsum should allow the hop aromas to shine through more right?

I'm not the one to answer this, as my experience with this type of ale will not permit a fair answer. From my inquiries there seem to be two camps. One camp clusters at about 175 ppm as the ideal SO4 level for IPA's, and the other camp says 300 ppm is the target. The figures I gave you are for 200 ppm, so they are closer to the low end camp. I don't make IPA's as a rule. I currently have one bottle carbonating that will be ready to sample in about a week though. It had 206 ppm SO4.

 

[xpops]

all my IPAs i try to target in the 150's ppm minimum. i'm building up based on RO so it's a little easier for me to mess with different additions without worrying about jacking up my CA or NA to undesirable amounts.

Maybe try a batch with RO and build up, to see if you can get better results? did you have a water report for your water on the other side of the city? seems odd it would differ that much from one part of town to another unless they're on completely different water systems?

 

[mabrungard]

yes I am confused whether i need to add calcium chloride or not in that case. Beer smith tells me my so4:cl ratio is 'malty'

That's the problem with that ratio and its typical descriptors. We shouldn't use the terms 'malty' or 'bitter' when discussing this ratio. Better descriptors are 'full' or 'dry'. These refer to the beer's finish. A fuller finish tends to accentuate the perception of malt while a drier finish accentuates the perception of bittering and hops. However, if those elements are not really present in the beer, no amount of altering the ratio will make them appear.