Help With Water Adjustments

[nobadays]

Hi all - with a lot more knowledge then me! - I generally brew APA's, IPA's and occasionally branch out to a Rye IPA and maybe once a year do a Porter and a Stout.

I have read the "sticky" and probably too many other discussions/articles on brew water to the point I just find it all confusing. Call it age of ignorance... Help!

I realize that different styles require different water profiles so I am mainly interested in the IPA/APA needs. Currently I try to brew with RO water - when my only outlet's machine is working - and add the packet (about a tsp)of BSG HandCraft Water Crystals that my LHBS sends with each order free. My beer has been good but as always could be better.

Last time I brewed the RO machine was out of order so I just got filtered water from another machine that removes CL2 and other impurities but says it leaves "some" of the natural minerals.

Here is the City water report on the important stuff... can someone help me to understand what would be the best adjustments for this water - after CL2 is removed.

Alkalinity - 66 - 320
Calcium - 16 - 84
Chloride - 3.6 - 78
Hardness, Total - 62 - 370 (3.6 – 21.6 gpg)
Iron - N.D. - 18
Magnesium - 5.6 - 32
Manganese - N.D. - 0.52
Nickel - N.D. - 0.009
pH - 6.9 – 8.3
Sodium - 11-55
Sulfate - 4.4 - 53
Total Dissolved Solids - 140 - 450
Zinc - N.D.- 0.98


I can't seem to find what the makeup is of the BSG HandCraft Water Crystals but talking to the LHBS guy he says fo "most" styles a tsp is just right with RO water.

Thanks in advance!
Don
Primary: Joe IPA clone
Secondary: nothing
Bottled: Oatmeal Stout, APA and Rye IPA
(New eBIAB rig up and running! - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=585945)

 

[Morrey]

I'll agree that water chemistry can initially be confusing, but the results of properly adjusted water are well worth the efforts.

My suggestion: Download a complimentary copy of Martin Brungard's calculation spreadsheet called Bru'n Water. Next, since none of this will make much sense right at first, look at YouTube where there are tutorials from folks who help explain what value goes where in Bru'n Water...and what those values actually mean.

You have a head start in that you have a water report. However, I am not sure what kind of report that is. Look at Ph...those values are a wide spread, so what is your Ph in reality? Other values the same question applies. Ward Labs does a brewing report that is brewer specific.

Water chemistry management is a learning process, but the reward is great beer!

 

[ajdelange]

We can't really recommend any adjustments for your water as it is so variable. Hardness and alkalinity vary from about 1.3 mEq/L (which is tolerable) to about 7 which isn't. Their approximate equality suggests that they can be removed by treatment with lime but the manganese and iron are, at their higher ranges, killers. Unless you want to learn a lot more about water treatment than it is probable that you do, RO is the way for you to go.

The 'brewing crystals' are probably mostly gypsum with perhaps some calcium chloride and epsom salts thrown in. So that you know what you are doing use calcium chloride and gypsum instead. I recommend starting with half a tsp of CaCl2 per 5 gallons treated. Taste the finished beer with a bit of gypsum added to the glass. If you think that improves the taste then use half a tsp of gypsum (in addition to the CaCl2) in the next brew. Repeat the experiment until you get just the right amount of gypsum. It is, conceptually, no different than seasoning a stew.

Be sure to add some sauermalz to control mash pH. 1% of the grist by weight should be enough.

 

[TheHopfather]

^ AJ has spoken. He's the water guru, listen to this man.

 

[mabrungard]

You certainly wouldn't want to add those crystals to that filtered water. It could easily make a bad situation worse. You really need to stick with RO water due to the variability in the supply.

 

[nobadays]

Thanks for the replies... I was kind of afraid this wasn't simple. Our city water comes from different sources, surface and wells. So I assume that is why the wide range in values. It would depend on the source (wells "probably" harder water, more minerals than the surface water) that is contributing the most water on any given day.

RO it is! I was just by the store that has the machine and I see it is fixed so at least for this brew day I'm good. I may look at getting 50gpd RO filter, they are somewhat reasonable.

Thank you again...and I will get the Bru'n spreadsheet and watch some videos.

Thanks!
Don
Primary: Joe IPA clone
Secondary: nothing
Bottled: Oatmeal Stout, APA and Rye IPA
(New eBIAB rig up and running! - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=585945)

 

[nobadays]

Uh.... I did add the crystals to the filtered water... we will see how the beer turns out! It is a Joe IPA clone and has been in the fermenter 13 days (using Mangrove Jack M44 yeast so took 48 hours to really get to "cooking" so really 11 days fermenting...) Just checked the SG today - 1.023, down from an OG of 1.072. Still a bit cloudy, slight yeasty smell but the "grapefruit" comes through and it tastes pretty fine even now.

Do you think putting the crystals in are having an effect on how slow it is fermenting out/so far - poor floculation? Sorry to be so ignorant on how water affects beer...

Thanks!
Don
Primary: Joe IPA clone
Secondary: nothing
Bottled: Oatmeal Stout, APA and Rye IPA
(New eBIAB rig up and running! - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=585945)

 

[BrewmasterBrad]

I've been doing some experiments using the tools that most people use to adjust their RO water - Bru'n Water, EZ Water Calculator, and BeerSmith. I wanted to see which of these tools did the best job of achieving the target water profile. I am still working on this, so my results are not final, but I can tell you that all three tools do a pretty good job. I have found that Bru'n Water is the most complete for my purposes since it also helps with adjusting the mash and sparge pH levels (plus Martin has been very responsive with answering my dumb questions).

I purchased the advanced SmartBrew kit, so I have been able to test all the parameters of my water on the fly. So far, I have tested a few different water profiles, but I have only used it once on a brew day. I am going to try a few more brew days before I publish all my results. Obviously, the true test will be if the beers are improved. The bad thing is that I am only brewing lagers this year (my self-proclaimed "year of the lager"), so it is taking longer to get the sensory results.

 

[ajdelange]

. I wanted to see which of these tools did the best job of achieving the target water profile.

I can send you a tool (spreadsheet) which does a much better job of matching a given profile (assuming it is a physically realizable profile) than any of the programs you are trying but as matching a given profile is not really important in brewing I see no reason why you would want to invest the time it takes to learn to use it.

Obviously, the true test will be if the beers are improved.

Now that's more like it! Managing your grist and water treatment for optimized beer quality is what the game is about. Control of mash pH is the sine qua non. Once that is accomplished fiddling with the stylistic ion concentrations is really no more complicated than adjusting the seasonings in a stew (though as you mention you do have to wait for the beer to mature before you can judge the final result).

 

[BrewmasterBrad]

I can send you a tool (spreadsheet) which does a much better job of matching a given profile (assuming it is a physically realizable profile) than any of the programs you are trying but as matching a given profile is not really important in brewing I see no reason why you would want to invest the time it takes to learn to use it.

That would be great AJ. I guess my ultimate goal is to find the path of least resistance to create the best beer possible and take the mystery out of water chemistry. I know that understanding the chemistry itself is beyond the comprehension of most of us, but we should at least understand the concepts behind it and be able to trust that the tools we are using are at least getting us in the ballpark.