Help With More Haze For NEIPA Recipe

[BigFishBrewing]

I brewed the recipe below based on a BYO article by Gordon Strong. It's not exact as I was limited by the ingredients my LHBS carried. It really was excellent though and I have had a lot of good feedback from friends. It's just the kind of NEIPA I was hoping for. I'm going to brew it again ASAP but I would like to make it a little hazier. What I mean by hazy is a little more opaque and creamier looking. The other thing I was hoping for is greater head retention as it disipates so quickly. Thanks for any suggestions and ideas.

 

[MrPowers]

When did you dry hop?

 

[specharka]

Flaked wheat will precipitate hop polyphenols out of solution during fermentation. For some reason malted wheat doesn’t have the same effect; you could try exchanging flaked for malted to boost the hop presentation.

You’re gonna need somewhat hard water with 100-200 ppm Ca to keep hop compounds in solution. Sulfate/chloride ratio doesn’t matter much (use more sulfate for a drier finish, use more chloride for a fuller mouthfeel). Keep the mash pH on the low side, 5.2-5.3, and knockout pH 5.0-5.1. You can always acidify during the hopstand to get it where you need it.

Most recipes will have you mash between 152-154, which is perfectly fine if you’re using a high attenuator like Conan. I prefer to mash low (147-149) with a short dextrinization rest between 160-162 to maximize head retention. I usually end up with 77-81% AA with this method.

Dry hop early into fermentation, usually around 48 hours, for bio-transformation of hop compounds. If you want to perform a DDH for more aroma, ensure that you provide enough time for a diacetyl rest thereafter. And try to minimize oxygen ingress at all costs when dry hopping (which is why I usually only do the bio hop).

 

[BigFishBrewing]

I'm still a newbie so I haven't advanced to adjusting water chemistry yet but I plan to. Interesting about the wheat malt and I will consider that. I dry hopped three days into fermentation. Next time I will add first dry hops on the second day. I only use a glass carboy for fermenting with no secondary. Unfortunately, I struggled to get the hops (hop bag) in through the neck of the carboy and it was then impossible to remove them. I had to cut the bag to remove it so I ended up with the beer sitting on 3 dry hop additions until I kegged it. Next time I think I will use my plastic bucket and remove each dry hop addition before adding the next (3 additions of dry hopping). I am also going to purge the keg with co2 before siphoning the beer in. Hopefully that will reduce oxygen degradation.

 

[thehaze]

Flaked Barley and Torrified Flaked Barley add lots of protein in beer and cause haze.

 

[Padj]

A spoonful of flour during the boil should sort you right out for the haze. I think it maybe cheating though.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

If you're deliberately trying to make a NEIPA hazier, then you're doing something wrong. The haze is a by-product of what you're doing for sensory reasons, not an aim in itself.

Have a go at Braufessor's NEIPA, see how you get on with that.

 

[specharka]

I'm still a newbie so I haven't advanced to adjusting water chemistry yet but I plan to. Interesting about the wheat malt and I will consider that. I dry hopped three days into fermentation. Next time I will add first dry hops on the second day. I only use a glass carboy for fermenting with no secondary. Unfortunately, I struggled to get the hops (hop bag) in through the neck of the carboy and it was then impossible to remove them. I had to cut the bag to remove it so I ended up with the beer sitting on 3 dry hop additions until I kegged it. Next time I think I will use my plastic bucket and remove each dry hop addition before adding the next (3 additions of dry hopping). I am also going to purge the keg with co2 before siphoning the beer in. Hopefully that will reduce oxygen degradation.

If you’re already kegging there are a lot more cold-side tricks available to you. One of the biggest improvements that I made to my hazy IPAs was switching from carboys to fermenting in corny kegs. You can use something like the Clear Beer Draught System and just toss hops directly into your fermenting keg. I’m a bit cheap so I opted to modify a keg hop sleeve and fit it over my dip tube, which works surprisingly well. The only major adjustment you have to make is targeting a smaller batch size — 4.5 gal for 1 keg or 9 gal for 2 kegs.

Once you switch to fermenting in kegs you can eliminate 99% of the sources for oxygen ingress, which makes IPAs taste brighter and fresher. Just gotta make sure that when you perform closed transfers to serving kegs that you completely purge receiving vessel and all associated beer lines.

 

[BigFishBrewing]

If you're deliberately trying to make a NEIPA hazier, then you're doing something wrong. The haze is a by-product of what you're doing for sensory reasons, not an aim in itself.

Have a go at Braufessor's NEIPA, see how you get on with that.

Thanks. What a great thread to read and learn from.

 

[Michael S. Henry]

You can up the percentage of protein inducing malts. Bump those flaked oats up to 10% or even 15%.

 

[fsh_bstrd]

I just brewed the haziest beer yet and it is opaque! I believe it was a combination of 20% oats, dryhopping with 6 oz. 24 hours into primary ferm then 4 more oz as ferm slowed, using omega oyl 011yeast and a gentle boil. Also no whirlfloc. This beer looks like creamy OJ.

 

[Michael S. Henry]

I tried an interesting trick on my last one. I took 1/2 lb of my Flaked Oats and ground them in a blender (added to mash). It’s a beautiful orange juice color.

 

[i4ourgot]

I add flaked barley, might help with head retention too.

 

[couchsending]

The key is permanent haze without astringency/hop burn. Lots of flaked adjuncts and lots of dry hopping during fermentation and yeast in suspension is not what you want. This has the propensity to create an astringent hard to drink beer. Similar to lots of commercial examples of the style. High Cl amounts with lots of Ca also contribute to that.

Head Retention
-step mash (162 for 30min) (depends on your malt)
-ferment colder
-keep as much hot and cold break out if the fermenter as possible
-don’t let the beer sit on the yeast for long

Grist
-high protein US 2 Row (Rahr)
-10% Carafoam
- you can use 2% Honey Malt, 4% Carahell
- for more orange use 1% caraaroma
- can also blend in some US Pale Ale Malt

Yeast
1318 or 1272

Don’t dry hop during fermentation. If you must wait until the very very end and only use 1/4 of DH charge max.

2nd or only DH charge after cooling and pulling as much yeast as possible (hard to do if using a carboy) and dry hop around 60* for 4ish days.

Use Galaxy/Vic Secret/Enigma. All these are so high in polyphenols and will make the most opaque beers. However they also can create the most Hop related burn so you need to learn how to deal with it. Lagering for a week helps.

Most is the opposite of what most people will tell you so take that for what it’s worth.

Water and pH are super important too but if you haven’t gotten there yet I won’t go there.

 

[Redtab78]

Well, I may get blasted on here for this, but having made quite a few of these, I find the haze is just simply there from the procedure and not necessarily what you put into it. What I mean by that is the brewing technique, the dry hopping timeline, etc just not necessarily the grist.

For example, I use RO water (100%) so I use the pur water to strike and then add my salts to the mash while I am mashing in. I then test my PH using an Omega meter, and USUALLY do not have to add any type of acid at all, but I have also been playing aroundwith the PH lately. My standard salts (using BS3 for recipie building) is to shoot for roughly 150CaCL and 70(ish) Sulfates. I use a combo of Gypsum, Calcium Chloride, Baking soda, Epsome salt, and canning salt. I build the recipie in BS3, and then on the water tab I start with 10 gal of distilled (and I have to adjust the PH on the distilled as it is set to 7.00, but mine happens to be 6.00 as tested in the HLT. Then after the water is set, I then go to "match target profile" where I have already built my profile for NEIPA, and then just simply click to match, I also check "exclude chalk". this gives me a ROUGH estimate, of what I am using. I then input all of the same info into Bru'n Water, and input what BS3 tells me I should be using, and "fine tune" how I want the water.

Once I have the water additions set, I brew just like any other beer. I have tried adding hops at different times during the boil, but I have found lately that a FWH of about .40 of Magnum, is sufficient for the entire boil. I then start with my immersion chiller, to bring the temp down (after my standard 90 min boil time......dont ask, I just do 90 for everything) once I have the temp at 175-170 I add (roughly, depending on which recipie) close to 4oz hops......sometimes 3oz, sometimes 6oz, just depends, and I let it sit (with my pump recirculating the wort) for about 20 or so min.

I then chill it the rest of the way using my counterflow chiller, and aerate using pure O2 from a diffusion stone for about a min....(sometimes, I just turn the stone on very low, while I am filling the fermenter so it is getting plenty of oxygen while its filling). Once the fermenter is at about 5.5 gallons, and I am at 68(ish) degrees, I pitch my yeast.

I usually start my brew days at about 0700 and am done and pitching my yeast at about noon.

I then come in with a fairly decent dry hop charge THE FOLLOWING EVENING, so about 28-30 hours post pitch. I let this ride for about 5 days total and start checking my FG. When my FG is stead over a 36 hour period, I cold crash for 24 hours, keg and carb.





Now, having all of that said, there are many different ways to skin the cat, and there are many different ways to achieve the same goal. I can not speak for the others, but I shoot for taste and (sometimes) color, while others dont. To me, if the product your drinking is what you want to taste, and it is appealing, then you have done what your trying to do.

Here is a picture of what 90% of my NEIPA's look like. the malt bill for this one was:
85% pale
8.5% white wheat
4.2% carapils
2.7% crystal 60

Hops were .4oz magnum in the FWH and Galaxy, Citra and Azecca (1oz ea in whirlpool, and 1.5 ea in the fermenter for the dry hop) yeast was WY1318

 

[BigFishBrewing]

Related question - How do you check your FG without exposing beer to oxygen? (Sorry, but I'm still new to brewing.)

 

[ong]

Related question - How do you check your FG without exposing beer to oxygen? (Sorry, but I'm still new to brewing.)

It’s a valid question, without a great answer. I think with styles like this, it’s more important to minimize oxygen contact than be super focused on FG. (Certain setups would lend themselves to collecting samples without exposure, but mine certainly doesn’t.) I just plan on transferring to a keg at a certain point (around 2 weeks), and trust that I’ve hit my numbers by then.

 

[Redtab78]

I use a SS Brewtech bucket. this has a valve at the bottom, but above the trub level from which I can pull samples from along the way. Since I use a refractometer, I only need a tiny sample, and then plug this into my calculator to adjust for the alcohol to get a good reading. When I get a reading I am satisfied with, I then pull a little bit bigger sample and double check with my hydrometer.

Because I use a "CO2 Catcher" from norcal when I do this, I do not suck back oxygen, I suck back CO2 when the beer is being pulled from the bottom. as you can see in the picture. This just happens to be me going from a primary over to a secondary of a NEPIA where it will be cold crashed and then racked to a keg....(I could skip the secondary and go straight to a keg, but I didnt have 1 ready when I was doing this one)....the way I do this as you can see, is I "push" the beer out the bottom at about 1-2psi. the valve on the CO2 line is for me to regulate by hand how much CO2 is going in to push the beer out. I have to balance the intake with the beer so that the CO2 Catcher stays somewhat level.

When I have to use a secondary like this, I always run my CO2 line into the secondary (not always a carboy, thats just what this one used), and let it sit there filling the vessel for a little while. Then when I transfer, I try to ensure i keep the flow nice and slow, and not aggitate or bubble.