Help. Stuck Fermentation?

[Newtobrewing85]

Hey, I’ll try and keep it short. I’m making a bourbon porter I brewed on Sunday from northern brewer, my OG was 1.060, I unfortunately missed the 1.065 but that’s not the debate. No issues with brewing, temps or pitching, I pitched the yeast around 68.

Here’s where the debate came in and where the issue may lie. Recipe called for a starter or 2 packs of yeast. I checked Lallemand Windsor’s website and they too called for 2 packs of yeast. Prior to that I idiotically made a starter with dry yeast, I didn’t know that wasn’t really a thing. So I said screw it and tossed in a second pack because I didn’t want to under pitch yeast. It took off like a son of a ***** that night (when I don’t know), filling the blow off tube with crap and I had to clean it a few times. The first time I went to clean it, it blew up in my face the next morning. I went to work and was scared to come home to see what had happened. It was calm, I was shocked. I thought, “I’m going to take gravity and start comparing it to see when it might be done.” It was 1.040, fast forward to Wednesday night it’s still 1.040 and looks just life less.

My house was about 67 and I’m an idiot because I didn’t really think about the internal temperature of the fermenter even though I know this. I knocked it down to 62 to cool it off a bit but the first night it was probably 72-75ish inside? Little high 65-70 was the range.

Anyways, how do i fix this easily? I gave the fermenter a little swirl to see if I could shake anything up but I don’t think that’ll help. This recipe is supposed to ferment for 1-2 weeks and then another 4 weeks with bourbon and wood.

 

[Upstate12866]

A few random thoughts:

No harm from making a starter, double pitching, or warmer temps. All these should enhance fermentation speed and vigor, not hinder it. Nothing you did should mess up the quality to a significant degree either.

So around 3 days at 1.040? Monday to Wed? That is odd but sometimes fermentation can be odd. After a week I would be more concerned but I would be willing to wait a few more days and observe more. There are stages as each sugar chain type is consumed, so perhaps the yeast are switching gears to a more complex sugar. Maaaybe.

I don't use Windsor but I have used other English ales, and they always seem to finish fast. Someone with experience with Windsor (yeast forum?) Or with your recipe (northern brewer) will be good sources.

Was the yeast fresh/not expired or overheated in shipping?

Did you remember to aerate the wort for oxygen available to yeast?


The tricks I know are to warm the container a bit, agitate the yeast, ensure yeast have available oxygen (though I don't know if it's wise to shake it vigorously at this stage, for instance), maybe add a touch of nutrient (though this is least likely to be needed) or even add more yeast (also unlikely to be needed).

I'm curious too, good luck!

 

[hotbeer]

I use dry yeasts that say they are okay for direct pitching. Windsor is one that is okay for direct pitch. Though I've not used Windsor.

I like the simplicity dry pitching brings to brew day. I currently only think I'd rehydrate and make a starter if I didn't have enough on hand to pitch the number of cells needed and wanted to double the amount in the packet.

The temp ranges given for it on their site are optimal ranges. Not what it has to be in to survive.

Swirl the fermenter to your hearts content. I don't think it matters much either way except if you have a clear fermenter, it might clean some off to give you a better view inside if you catch it soon enough. Otherwise, I've found it surprisingly hard to get off by just swirling if it has been on there for much more than a few hours.

A good krausen like you seem to have had produces a lot of gas and depending on the stuff in your beer a lot of foam. 3/8th ID or less hose might flow enough gas at peak krausen, but when you start getting foam and solid matter up in the hose, it's going to get blown out.

Use a wider ID hose and it will slide back down the sides of the tube while the gas escapes. 1/2" ID might be much better, however I use 7/8th ID. And I've only got a little more than a gallon in the fermenter.

The beer will probably still be good beer if you just continue as if nothing happened. Just consider if there are things you want to do different for the next batch.

If you start doing things to "fix" the current stuff in the fermenter, then you just introduce more variables to track and wonder if they really did anything. Or worse... assume they actually did something.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

A few random thoughts:

No harm from making a starter, double pitching, or warmer temps. All these should enhance fermentation speed and vigor, not hinder it. Nothing you did should mess up the quality to a significant degree either.

So around 3 days at 1.040? Monday to Wed? That is odd but sometimes fermentation can be odd. After a week I would be more concerned but I would be willing to wait a few more days and observe more. There are stages as each sugar chain type is consumed, so perhaps the yeast are switching gears to a more complex sugar. Maaaybe.

I don't use Windsor but I have used other English ales, and they always seem to finish fast. Someone with experience with Windsor (yeast forum?) Or with your recipe (northern brewer) will be good sources.

Was the yeast fresh/not expired or overheated in shipping?

Did you remember to aerate the wort for oxygen available to yeast?


The tricks I know are to warm the container a bit, agitate the yeast, ensure yeast have available oxygen (though I don't know if it's wise to shake it vigorously at this stage, for instance), maybe add a touch of nutrient (though this is least likely to be needed) or even add more yeast (also unlikely to be needed).

I'm curious too, good luck!

Hopefully that’s all it is, it does taste good currently though lol. So that’s a win. But 2.5% alcohol is a little low.

I’m not sure about the yeast. I looked at it and i didn’t see a date code, at least anything easily discernible. But I’ve had them I dunno for around 6 months in the fridge, nothing crazy like years though.

I have an anvil I put on the counter and drain into the catalyst so it gets pretty oxygenated dropping down that 2-3’, never been an issue before.

I tossed on my heater and set it to the 66 degrees. The sensor taped to the side was reading 63 (yesterday morning) and the room was 65 so it was likely a little too cool, it’s up at 66 now though. I did order a thermocouple stopper through for next time for a more accurate temperature reading. I did give it a little shake/swirl to kinda agitate everything. Let it settle, dumped the trub (catalyst) and then opened it full force to kind of kick everything back up again.

I heard about that and adding more yeast if need be but I figured I’d ask here first. I’ll keep an eye on it for the next day or two and see if it changes at all.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

I use dry yeasts that say they are okay for direct pitching. Windsor is one that is okay for direct pitch. Though I've not used Windsor.

I like the simplicity dry pitching brings to brew day. I currently only think I'd rehydrate and make a starter if I didn't have enough on hand to pitch the number of cells needed and wanted to double the amount in the packet.

The temp ranges given for it on their site are optimal ranges. Not what it has to be in to survive.

Swirl the fermenter to your hearts content. I don't think it matters much either way except if you have a clear fermenter, it might clean some off to give you a better view inside if you catch it soon enough. Otherwise, I've found it surprisingly hard to get off by just swirling if it has been on there for much more than a few hours.

A good krausen like you seem to have had produces a lot of gas and depending on the stuff in your beer a lot of foam. 3/8th ID or less hose might flow enough gas at peak krausen, but when you start getting foam and solid matter up in the hose, it's going to get blown out.

Use a wider ID hose and it will slide back down the sides of the tube while the gas escapes. 1/2" ID might be much better, however I use 7/8th ID. And I've only got a little more than a gallon in the fermenter.

The beer will probably still be good beer if you just continue as if nothing happened. Just consider if there are things you want to do different for the next batch.

If you start doing things to "fix" the current stuff in the fermenter, then you just introduce more variables to track and wonder if they really did anything. Or worse... assume they actually did something.

Yeah, I didn’t want to do anything crazy I just have never had a beer really stop being active for the first 3-4 days, not 1 day. It just died suddenly after less than 24 hours. I’ll look into the hoses, thanks. It tastes good but at 1.040 its like 2.5% lol. Which I guess isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it’s still beer!

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I would give it a week and see where your gravity is at. If it hasnt dropped then direct pitch another pack of Windsor. I'm not familiar with that strain but typically 7 to 10 days is more then enough time to take a gravity reading where you can expect to be at or close to FG .. maybe you lost a significant of healthy yeast during blast off, but I doubt it. Blow off hoses will become your best friend. I painted a few closets with yeasty mess before I learned my lesson.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

I would give it a week and see where your gravity is at. If it hasnt dropped then direct pitch another pack of Windsor. I'm not familiar with that strain but typically 7 to 10 days is more then enough time to take a gravity reading where you can expect to be at or close to FG .. maybe you lost a significant of healthy yeast during blast off, but I doubt it. Blow off hoses will become your best friend. I painted a few closets with yeasty mess before I learned my lesson.

Ill monitor it for the next few days. I was wondering about losing the yeast through the tube, which would suck obviously. I usually use a tube to a cup of water for the first few days and then switch to an airlock.

 

[passedpawn]

Hey, I’ll try and keep it short. I’m making a bourbon porter I brewed on Sunday from northern brewer, my OG was 1.060, I unfortunately missed the 1.065 but that’s not the debate. No issues with brewing, temps or pitching, I pitched the yeast around 68.

Here’s where the debate came in and where the issue may lie. Recipe called for a starter or 2 packs of yeast. I checked Lallemand Windsor’s website and they too called for 2 packs of yeast. Prior to that I idiotically made a starter with dry yeast, I didn’t know that wasn’t really a thing. So I said screw it and tossed in a second pack because I didn’t want to under pitch yeast. It took off like a son of a ***** that night (when I don’t know), filling the blow off tube with crap and I had to clean it a few times. The first time I went to clean it, it blew up in my face the next morning. I went to work and was scared to come home to see what had happened. It was calm, I was shocked. I thought, “I’m going to take gravity and start comparing it to see when it might be done.” It was 1.040, fast forward to Wednesday night it’s still 1.040 and looks just life less.

My house was about 67 and I’m an idiot because I didn’t really think about the internal temperature of the fermenter even though I know this. I knocked it down to 62 to cool it off a bit but the first night it was probably 72-75ish inside? Little high 65-70 was the range.

Anyways, how do i fix this easily? I gave the fermenter a little swirl to see if I could shake anything up but I don’t think that’ll help. This recipe is supposed to ferment for 1-2 weeks and then another 4 weeks with bourbon and wood.

Are you measuring your gravity with a hydrometer or a refractometer?

 

[tracer bullet]

Are you measuring your gravity with a hydrometer or a refractometer?

Yep, this.

If it's a hydrometer, check it against some water to be sure the paper inside didn't move. If it's a refractometer then FYI it won't read correctly once alcohol is present. There are correction tables but I'd switch over to a hydrometer if you have one.

Point being - maybe you actually aren't measuring correctly.

All that said - if you did have fermentation stop, I'd get a different yeast to pitch. Be it liquid or dry, since it seems what you've been using doesn't work. Don't repeat the same mistake. Maybe it's a "bad batch" or something and no sense throwing a 3rd one or whatever of the same thing.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

Are you measuring your gravity with a hydrometer or a refractometer?

Refractometer and you just answered my question for me. I’m stupid.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

Yep, this.

If it's a hydrometer, check it against some water to be sure the paper inside didn't move. If it's a refractometer then FYI it won't read correctly once alcohol is present. There are correction tables but I'd switch over to a hydrometer if you have one.

Point being - maybe you actually aren't measuring correctly.

All that said - if you did have fermentation stop, I'd get a different yeast to pitch. Be it liquid or dry, since it seems what you've been using doesn't work. Don't repeat the same mistake. Maybe it's a "bad batch" or something and no sense throwing a 3rd one or whatever of the same thing.

I do but I usually only use it to check final gravity measurements. I don’t usually use the refractometer during but I checked it out of curiosity the other day. I’m not sure why I forgot they don’t really work as well when there’s alcohol present.

I’ll have to think about what else I can use. Lallemand is a good yeast and it’s what comes recommended so I don’t think it’s the yeast strain. I think it’s more I followed their rules, used too much and it blew a bunch of yeast out the top.

 

[Upstate12866]

Something like this situation? (From a refractometer app)

 

[Newtobrewing85]

Something like this situation? (From a refractometer app)

What app is this?

 

[Upstate12866]

BrewKing

 

[tracer bullet]

I do but I usually only use it to check final gravity measurements. I don’t usually use the refractometer during but I checked it out of curiosity the other day. I’m not sure why I forgot they don’t really work as well when there’s alcohol present.

So... just to be clear, your hydrometer is registering 1.040? Or have you tried it yet?

 

[Falstaff]

Usually I see posts stuck at 1.02, which isn't usually stuck, just finished. 1.04 seems actually stuck. I'd double check with an actual hydrometer, if you haven't. I've read about the appeal of using a refractometer, which seems to be a smaller sample size. This being said, a hydrometer is so foolproof.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

So... just to be clear, your hydrometer is registering 1.040? Or have you tried it yet?

Sorry, no. The refractometer was.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

Usually I see posts stuck at 1.02, which isn't usually stuck, just finished. 1.04 seems actually stuck. I'd double check with an actual hydrometer, if you haven't. I've read about the appeal of using a refractometer, which seems to be a smaller sample size. This being said, a hydrometer is so foolproof.

Yeah it seemed high that’s why I was worried.

 

[Upstate12866]

I just always put my refractometer reading into BrewKing after fermentation has begun. I suppose it's a small hassle but I can sample through the airlock, so it works great for me.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

Hydrometer reads 1.020

Guess I’m just being overly worried. It’s 4-5 more weeks anyways because I have to add bourbon and wood chips.

 

[Falstaff]

Hydrometer reads 1.020

Guess I’m just being overly worried. It’s 4-5 more weeks anyways because I have to add bourbon and wood chips.

That sounds done to me, besides the chips of course. Did you mash high? Also, that's a long time for chips. Be careful with them. You can overdo it.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

That sounds done to me, besides the chips of course. Did you mash high? Also, that's a long time for chips. Be careful with them. You can overdo it.

Closer for sure. I’m not sure what the FG is supposed to be. Northern brewer is kind of odd, they don’t give you one or an estimated ABV%. Brewfather after calculated said 1.016 at 6.2% so that’s roughly what it was expecting so sounds like we’re really close.

I will say NB instructions f’ing suck. I’m glad you just asked me this because I went and looked again. These are all the instructions that are given by them.

“Suggested fermentation schedule: -- 1–2-weeks-primary;-4-weeks-secondary;-
2-weeks-bottle-conditioning-“

They did give the mash schedule and hop additions.

This is the extract:


BEYOND BREWING DAY—WEEKS 1–2
15. Active fermentation begins. Within approximately 48 hours of Brewing Day, active fermentation will begin – there will be a cap of foam on the surface of the beer, and you may see bubbles come through the fermenta- tion lock. The optimum fermentation temperature for this beer is 60–72o F – move the fermenter to a warmer or cooler spot as needed.
16. Active fermentation ends. Approximately 1–2 weeks after brewing day, active fermentation will end: the cap of foam falls back into the new beer, bubbling in the fermentationlockslowsdownorstops.
17.Transferbeertosecondaryfermenter.Sanitize siphoning equipment and an airlock and carboy bung or stopper. Siphon the beer from the primary fermenter into the secondary.
BEYOND BREWING DAY— SECONDARY FERMENTATION
18. Secondary fermentation. Allow the beer to condi- tion in the secondary fermenter for 2 – 3 weeks before proceeding with the next step. Timing now is somewhat flexible.
19. Add the oak cubes. Soak the US Medium Plus Oak Cubes in 16 oz of bourbon for 24 – 48 hours. Use half the pack for a mild oak flavor, or the whole pack for a more pronounced oak character. Then add the oak cubes and bourbon to the secondary fermenter and wait an addi- tional 1 – 2 weeks before bottling.”

I guess if you do all grain you should know all this? I would have added it all for 4 weeks and not soaked the chips.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

That sounds done to me, besides the chips of course. Did you mash high? Also, that's a long time for chips. Be careful with them. You can overdo it.

Sorry. Mash high in gravity or temp? I’m not sure what you’re asking.

 

[Falstaff]

Sorry. Mash high in gravity or temp? I’m not sure what you’re asking.

Mash temperature. All of my beers that I mash at 160f halt at 1.02.

Edit: looks like extract kit. My b

Another edit: that's not too long for CUBES

 

[Falstaff]

Also, don't secondary. Rip that part of the instructions out and burn it.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

Mash temperature. All of my beers that I mash at 160f halt at 1.02.

Edit: looks like extract kit. My b

Another edit: that's not too long for CUBES

Oh no I do all grain, mash was 152 actually. The instructions called for 152 for 60 minutes and a 10 minute 170 mashout. Normally I sparge but I just went ahead and did what they said this time. It looks like it affected my OG though.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

Also, don't secondary. Rip that part of the instructions out and burn it.

Lol I don’t have a secondary anyways, I use the catalyst fermenter. So it’ll just sit there longer, gives the trub longer to settle.

 

[Falstaff]

Oh no I do all grain, mash was 152 actually. The instructions called for 152 for 60 minutes and a 10 minute 170 mashout. Normally I sparge but I just went ahead and did what they said this time. It looks like it affected my OG though.

Well whatever happened, don't stress. Nothing wrong with 1.02 if it's stable.

 

[bracconiere]

I’m stupid.

LOL, i wouldn't even have a refrac if it wasn't for "stupid" people!! now i love using one to compare to a hydrometer with all the cool things you can calculate between the two!

 

[IslandLizard]

This recipe is supposed to ferment for 1-2 weeks and then another 4 weeks with bourbon and wood.

Your fermentation may well be over, depending on at how much it was done when you cooled it down to 62F, coming from 67F+

Bourbon and wood... NB's instructions are crap.
Do not use a secondary!
Best to soak the cubes (or chips) in the Bourbon for a week (or 2) while the batch is fermenting. Then add that potion to your fermenter cubes and all and let it sit for another week. Then package.

You can still do the soak for a week then add it to the fermenter and leave another week.
Are you kegging or bottling?

 

[Newtobrewing85]

LOL, i wouldn't even have a refrac if it wasn't for "stupid" people!! now i love using one to compare to a hydrometer with all the cool things you can calculate between the two!

I’ll have to look into this further!

 

[Newtobrewing85]

Your fermentation may well be over, depending on at how much it was done when you cooled it down to 62F, coming from 67F+

Bourbon and wood... NB's instructions are crap.
Do not use a secondary!
Best to soak the cubes (or chips) in the Bourbon for a week (or 2) while the batch is fermenting. Then add that potion to your fermenter cubes and all and let it sit for another week. Then package.

You can still do the soak for a week then add it to the fermenter and leave another week.
Are you kegging or bottling?

I wondered about a sudden change in temp but I figured dropping the ambient to 62 with the fermenter higher it would be more in range. Either way, I’m learning what’s working and not working the more I brew.

Thanks for the heads up! I’ll start soaking them now than. I was thinking I’d wait till Sunday and let any fermentation that may be happening happen. Then toss in the wood chips for a week or 2? The 2 weeks they mention of doing nothing seems odd, I’m not sure what that would accomplish. I always thought 6 weeks seemed long but I’m new so who am I to question lol.

bottling. No keg stuff yet, we’ll see what Santa brings me.

 

[bracconiere]

I’ll have to look into this further!

i'll try to remember to tag you next time i see a cheap digital one on ebay! but anyway to try and be constructive in this conversation...


you can tell what the CURRENT gravity is if you know the original gravity comparing them, and you can solve for original gravity comparing the two...like for say if i just didn't check it, and dumped some sugar into apple juice...take the two, and comparing them are handy, one reads lower, one higher, and with some wizardy, fun stuff!

 

[Newtobrewing85]

i'll try to remember to tag you next time i see a cheap digital one on ebay! but anyway to try and be constructive in this conversation...


you can tell what the CURRENT gravity is if you know the original gravity comparing them, and you can solve for original gravity comparing the two...like for say if i just didn't check it, and dumped some sugar into apple juice...take the two, and comparing them are handy, one reads lower, one higher, and with some wizardy, fun stuff!

see that’s what I thought. If you know OG (1.060) and current gravity (1.040) it calculated out to like 2% alcohol lol. But the refractometer I guess doesn’t like alcohol so I think there’s a correction there? I usually just test FG with the hydrometer. The hydrometer is reading 1.020 though so yeah something is screwy.

 

[bracconiere]

see that’s what I thought. If you know OG (1.060) and current gravity (1.040) it calculated out to like 2% alcohol lol. But the refractometer I guess doesn’t like alcohol so I think there’s a correction there? I usually just test FG with the hydrometer. The hydrometer is reading 1.020 though so yeah something is screwy.

Beersmith2's calc, tells me a Brix of 10, and an OG of 1.060, would give it a SG of 1.027? or 1.024, for a brix of 9.5?

 

[Newtobrewing85]

Beersmith2's calc, tells me a Brix of 10, and an OG of 1.060, would give it a SG of 1.027? or 1.024, for a brix of 9.5?

Now I’m confused lol. Aren’t Brix and plato essentially the same thing? My OG was about 15 brix (refractometer) and is currently 10 (refractometer) so these numbers line up with what it’s reading.

 

[bracconiere]

https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/

i still don't understand the correction factor or how to find it, someone else will have to explain that part....i just briefly read a thread about it, that i wouldn't stand a chance of finding again....and there's also a calc to solve for OG too! if you have both refrac reading, AND SG...pretty neat


(and 1.028 sounds like it's got a bit further to go?)