Help on conical fermenter

[TheBeerGuy]

I am looking into making the purchase of a conical fermenter. I have seen and read all different reviews on all of them out there but I am looking for real use advice from people that have them. I am looking at the SS Tech 7 gallon conical fermenter ($395), the Spike brewing 7 gallon stainless ($400) and the FastFerment 7.9 gallon ($150) and The Catalyst Fermenter ($199).

What are you all using out there?

 

[phendog]

I have two Ss brewtech conical fermenters. The 7gal and the 14gal - both w/temp controllers. Love them and never use my glass carboys anymore.

 

[homemaltster]

Depends on what's important to you. Is it important that it's stainless instead of plastic? Or any other features you're especially looking for?

 

[blaster_54738]

I have an SS Brewtech 7 Gal Brewmaster Chronical and a FastFerment. I primarily use the SS Brewtech with the FastFerment as a back up and wine fermenter. Love the temp controller on the SS Brewtech. Also have the temp control bag for the FastFerment which is great. The Spikes conical looks very promising, almost wish I would have waited till it came out to compare to the SS Brewtech. For me the catalyst isn't even an option. It's plastic and it's clear. Not worth $200 imo. The only nice thing about it is the wide open valve but I've never had an issue with either of my conicals getting plugged.

 

[Xernex]

Have you thought about the SS Brewbuckets? Not true conicals, but depending on what feature you're looking for they aren't bad at 195 bucks, I've talked myself into picking up a couple of those.

 

[DasBierBaron]

Not sure a full conical is worth it for anything less than 10 gallon batches. I have the SS brewtech 14g. I like it OK, but the temperature control setup is pretty clumsy. I'd wait and get one of the new spike conicals when they come out if you are set on a conical.

 

[djsereno91]

I too am in the exact same boat, as I am trying to figure out which conical I want to get. I've narrowed it down to the SS BrewTech and the FastFerment as my best options.

Something to think of. Sure the FastFerment is made of plastic which can degrade or scratch if scrubbed too hard. But at a quarter of the price of the BrewTech, you have room to spare for replacements. If taken care of properly, it probably won't be an issue. Also, since it's only $100, you will be less invested in it and if something awesome comes on the market in a year, it will be a lot easier to stomach the cost.

These are just a couple things I've been thinking of lately, and I've found myself leaning more towards the cheaper option (although the SS conicals are so shiny and tempting). I just can't find something justifying the added expense, at least at this size of a batch. Plus, the FastFerment is a lot easier to store, which is a valid concern for me living in my small Bay Area apartment.

That being said, have you made up your mind? I'm curious what you have to think. I'm still not 100% convinced one way or the other and appreciate any thoughts you may have or have been told by other brewers.

 

[Xernex]

I can speak a little to the FastFerment. I've got one, and I've only used it once. To me - and this is my own opinion, and can be taken with a grain of salt - it's a bit of a pain to clean. I also had issues originally with getting a good seal at the thermowell. I finally got it to seal, but it was a fight. Performance wise though, I couldn't have been happier with it, I made a KBS clone in it, and the trub was enormous, but the collection ball kept sucking it up. I probably dumped the ball 3-4 times before I got it all out. It was a little slow to drain the trub, but it never really got stuck. Then racking from it straight into the keg was a breeze.

So TLR version - paint to clean(to me), thermowell seal is difficult(I could be a moron), performs like a champ.

 

[Aeverman123]

I have a stout 15 gallon fermenter and it is a solid unit but I prefer the 2 mini brew 6.5 gallon I have used since I have started brewing. Price is more than competitive and when cared for properly they are as reliable and useful as any I've seen.

 

[augiedoggy]

Not sure a full conical is worth it for anything less than 10 gallon batches. I have the SS brewtech 14g. I like it OK, but the temperature control setup is pretty clumsy. I'd wait and get one of the new spike conicals when they come out if you are set on a conical.

Why do you say this? Will the spike conical be sold with temp control?

I say get the cheapest conical you can find with the features you want... Who cares what brand it is? They are descent quality these days and they all come from china but the blichmann which isn't really very good with weldless fittings and a very high pricetag.

 

[DasBierBaron]

Why do you say this? Will the spike conical be sold with temp control?

I say get the cheapest conical you can find with the features you want... Who cares what brand it is? They are descent quality these days and they all come from china but the blichmann which isn't really very good with weldless fittings and a very high pricetag.

The spike conical costs substantially less than an Ss Brewtech and has some better features. The Ss Brewtech 14g conical with similar features to the Spike costs 200$ more ($575 for the spike, 775$ for the Brewtech). The Brewtech conical also has weldless fittings and a lid that isn't as nice. Having the cooling coils mounted inside the fermentor wall also makes the Brewtech more annoying to clean and the pressure relief valve SUCKS. It leaks every time I do pressurized transfers, even with 1-2 psi.

Spike hasn't released the price information on their cooling coil yet, but I can't imagine it will cost over 200$. I think you will be getting a better fermentor for your money.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

The spike conical costs substantially less than an Ss Brewtech and has some better features. The Ss Brewtech 14g conical with similar features to the Spike costs 200$ more ($575 for the spike, 775$ for the Brewtech). The Brewtech conical also has weldless fittings and a lid that isn't as nice. Having the cooling coils mounted inside the fermentor wall also makes the Brewtech more annoying to clean and the pressure relief valve SUCKS. It leaks every time I do pressurized transfers, even with 1-2 psi.

Spike hasn't released the price information on their cooling coil yet, but I can't imagine it will cost over 200$. I think you will be getting a better fermentor for your money.

Our 25' stainless coil welded to a 4" TC cap which mounts directly to our lid will be less than $100.

 

[DasBierBaron]

Our 25' stainless coil welded to a 4" TC cap which mounts directly to our lid will be less than $100.

And this is why I wish I waited another year to buy a conical. I will gladly do a comparison review if you want to send me one!

 

[Xernex]

And this is why I wish I waited another year to buy a conical. I will gladly do a comparison review if you want to send me one!

I'm next in line... I'll do some thorough testing....you know... for science purposes

 

[8rnw8]

I love the catalyst for 5 gallon batches. I think it is in a different league than the fast ferment or the brew demon.

I probably wouldn't buy a stainless steel conical for anything less than 10 gallon batches.

When I DO get a 10+ gallon stainless steel conical, I am strongly leaning towards the new spike line.

 

[Nagorg]

I have a SSBrewTech Half Barrel BME Chronical. I really like it but I dont use the inner coil. I bought plugs for the holes and would rather not even have the coil for my scenario. Other that that, it's a good conical and I've been enjoying it although I'd prefer welded fittings over the weld-less.

I like what I see coming with the Spike conical for sure but its not here yet. If I was in the market for a conical and could wait until spring 2017, I think I'd hold out for the Spike.

@SpikeBrewing: Please engineer something simple like a welded loop on the underside of a lid for tying hop bags during a dry hop.

 

[akthor]

Well I have 2 of the 1 bbl Chronicals and I think they're awesome. Make sure you factor in shipping when pricing things out. SS shipped mine free and threw in some goodies and beat other manufacturers price wise by a good margin once shipping charges were added to the cost. The others also didn't come with cooling coils which unless you a have a walk in cooler with 1 bbl batches you need some way to control fermentation temps.

The cooling coils, thermowells and sample valves are weldless true. But I would rather have them then not and I've used weldless fittings on all my old gear with no issues for years. See no reason why it'll be a problem on this new stuff.

SS's customer service is really good too. They were also the only manufacturer of 1 bbl conicals who promptly replied to my questions (within hours most times) which was another big reason I chose them.

 

[skraeling]

Our 25' stainless coil welded to a 4" TC cap which mounts directly to our lid will be less than $100.

@Spikebrewing

Any plans to release something similar to the brewbucket that SS makes? I cant fit a 7g conical in my ferm fridge, but I CAN fit two of those buckets.

 

[Nagorg]

<SNIP>The others also didn't come with cooling coils which unless you a have a walk in cooler with 1 bbl batches you need some way to control fermentation temps.

The cooling coils, thermowells and sample valves are weldless true. But I would rather have them then not and I've used weldless fittings on all my old gear with no issues for years. See no reason why it'll be a problem on this new stuff.</SNIP>

A half barrel and even some 1 bbl conicals will fit in an upright freezer which IMO is cheaper and less complicated than recirculating glycol. Also, in my scenario the outbuilding where I brew gets easily around 120 degrees in the summer. The upright freezer is a great insulator against that as well.

As to weld-less over welded, this is pure preference. I have had zero issues so far with the weld-less but I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't looking for leaks after filling the thing with 16 gallons of wort.

And I couldn't agree with you more about SSBrewTech's customer service. They defiantly get good marks here too. I can say the same thing about SpikeBrewing. I have two of their kettles and they are awesome. My third kettle will have a Spike Brewing logo on it for sure.

You cant go wrong with either company. You just need to get the right match to your preference, fermenting conditions and timing tolerance.

 

[Ss_Michael]

The spike conical costs substantially less than an Ss Brewtech and has some better features. The Ss Brewtech 14g conical with similar features to the Spike costs 200$ more ($575 for the spike, 775$ for the Brewtech). The Brewtech conical also has weldless fittings and a lid that isn't as nice. Having the cooling coils mounted inside the fermentor wall also makes the Brewtech more annoying to clean and the pressure relief valve SUCKS. It leaks every time I do pressurized transfers, even with 1-2 psi.

Spike hasn't released the price information on their cooling coil yet, but I can't imagine it will cost over 200$. I think you will be getting a better fermentor for your money.

I have to disagree with this one, in addition to the coil included, dont forget the neoprene jacket that is also included with our line of BME Chronicals before comparing prices. Without any form of insulation, temp control becomes much more difficult to manage.

Furthermore, from all the feedback we get, having the coil in the sidewall actually makes it easier to clean. Without the coil mounted to the sidewall, you have to remove it to CIP and then clean the coil manually. We encourage that BME users CIP since you virtually never to have to remove any of the weldless fittings.

Lastly, if you're having issues with your lid leaking, it's likely because you over pressurized the vessel at some point. Not to worry though, you can easily adjust your lid clamps, check out our FAQs on our site for a brief tutorial. If the PRV is releasing at 2 PSI, then its doing exactly what it was designed to do, which is prevent damage to the lid clamps.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Our unit will offer insulation and will be relatively inexpensive. We are developing a CIP ball that'll fit through the 1.5" TC in the lid so the coil can be cleaned while installed. It can also be removed easily be undoing one clamp. Our units are currently being qualified for production and are holding the 6psi we've designed for. Seals for blow off, pressure transfers, pressure ferments and can be capped at the end of fermentation to allow a little bit of carbonation to develop.

We are working our hardest to get them qualified and out to you guys!!

-Tim

 

[MidAtlanticBrew]

I have a couple of SS Brew Buckets and the BME 14 gallon Chronical. Have SS Temp control on all without any problems. I like them alot, and find them easy to clean - rinse the big macro nasties out, overnight soak in PBW, rinse. Overall, a pretty good product. Things I'd like in my next one include welded fittings, a better sampling valve (with TC). I agree with previous posted on the PRV, it takes some finessing. It you hit 2 psi it releases and it doesn't return sealed and 2 PSI is the nominal pressure, one of mine goes off at a little over 1 psi, Easy enough to tweak though with a few washers as shims

I'm in the market myself and had narrowed it to another 14 or 1/2 barrel Chronical as I didn't expect Spike to have a cooling system. Having an oxyphobia, I also like the ability to cap at the end of fermentation to build up a bit of pressure in preparation cold crash. Was excited for a new Xmas present to myself but I think I'll wait a bit.

@spike - what is the new ETA? is there a full feature list?

 

[SpikeBrewing]

I have a couple of SS Brew Buckets and the BME 14 gallon Chronical. Have SS Temp control on all without any problems. I like them alot, and find them easy to clean - rinse the big macro nasties out, overnight soak in PBW, rinse. Overall, a pretty good product. Things I'd like in my next one include welded fittings, a better sampling valve (with TC). I agree with previous posted on the PRV, it takes some finessing. It you hit 2 psi it releases and it doesn't return sealed and 2 PSI is the nominal pressure, one of mine goes off at a little over 1 psi, Easy enough to tweak though with a few washers as shims

I'm in the market myself and had narrowed it to another 14 or 1/2 barrel Chronical as I didn't expect Spike to have a cooling system. Having an oxyphobia, I also like the ability to cap at the end of fermentation to build up a bit of pressure in preparation cold crash. Was excited for a new Xmas present to myself but I think I'll wait a bit.

@spike - what is the new ETA? is there a full feature list?

We have a handful of units out for beta that are looking good! Our in house units are also almost completed too. After that it'll be 60-75 days for production and our welding to be done.

 

[DasBierBaron]

I have to disagree with this one, in addition to the coil included, dont forget the neoprene jacket that is also included with our line of BME Chronicals before comparing prices. Without any form of insulation, temp control becomes much more difficult to manage.

Furthermore, from all the feedback we get, having the coil in the sidewall actually makes it easier to clean. Without the coil mounted to the sidewall, you have to remove it to CIP and then clean the coil manually. We encourage that BME users CIP since you virtually never to have to remove any of the weldless fittings.

Lastly, if you're having issues with your lid leaking, it's likely because you over pressurized the vessel at some point. Not to worry though, you can easily adjust your lid clamps, check out our FAQs on our site for a brief tutorial. If the PRV is releasing at 2 PSI, then its doing exactly what it was designed to do, which is prevent damage to the lid clamps.

It's the valve that is leaking, the lid is fine. I have never exceeded 2 psi, per the instructions. I'm not the only person with this issue, it has been mentioned on the forums before. This is why during a transfer, i sprayed the pressure release valve with Starsan, and sure enough it had been leaking the entire time. Turning down the pressure didn't help until I got to about .5 psi. This isn't the end of the world, but Spike is claiming a higher pressure rating which would be nice. It takes me half an hour to fill one keg, and being able to use more pressure would perhaps help cut down on this time.

If the components are priced as Spike has claimed, they could charge 100$ for something similar to the neoprene jacket and the prices would come out the same. I understand that the spike fermentor does not include a cooling coil or a jacket, but it does have some key features that are only included on the Brewmaster edition of the Brewtech Chronical which is 200$ more. The Spike conical has all butterfly valves, a nice triclamp sample valve, and a lid with 4" and 1.5" TC ports. This is a great option for those who want to control temps in a fridge, and it's only 80$ more than the standard 14g Brewtech Chronical that doesn't have any of these features. You can barely get two butterfly valves for 80$.

 

[Nagorg]

CIP on the Chronical.. [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I-kI6bMc-Y[/ame]

And my walkthrough with my Chronical: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=579210 Ends with the CIP cleaning too!

 

[akthor]

As I said don't forget shipping. Stout wanted about the same price per 1bbl conical as SS but no jacket, coil, AND $300 for shipping.

 

[WestCoastBrew]

Really happy with my SsBrewtech fermenter. No complaints.

View attachment 1479701589703.jpg

 

[TheBeerGuy]

Our unit will offer insulation and will be relatively inexpensive. We are developing a CIP ball that'll fit through the 1.5" TC in the lid so the coil can be cleaned while installed. It can also be removed easily be undoing one clamp. Our units are currently being qualified for production and are holding the 6psi we've designed for. Seals for blow off, pressure transfers, pressure ferments and can be capped at the end of fermentation to allow a little bit of carbonation to develop.

We are working our hardest to get them qualified and out to you guys!!

-Tim

I'm ready to test one for real world testing and to give you guys real world feedback from the home brewing community..

 

[SpikeBrewing]

I'm ready to test one for real world testing and to give you guys real world feedback from the home brewing community..

We'll add you to the waiting list. You're #1435!! (joking but only slightly lol)

 

[augiedoggy]

The spike conical costs substantially less than an Ss Brewtech and has some better features. The Ss Brewtech 14g conical with similar features to the Spike costs 200$ more ($575 for the spike, 775$ for the Brewtech). The Brewtech conical also has weldless fittings and a lid that isn't as nice. Having the cooling coils mounted inside the fermentor wall also makes the Brewtech more annoying to clean and the pressure relief valve SUCKS. It leaks every time I do pressurized transfers, even with 1-2 psi.

Spike hasn't released the price information on their cooling coil yet, but I can't imagine it will cost over 200$. I think you will be getting a better fermentor for your money.

Oh I'm not disagreeing with you it's just your suggestion in the post I asked about seemed to suggest the spike cooling method was going to be better than Ss brewing and I was curious. I have a few different stainless conicals and none are the Ss ones... I used cooling jackets, both cool zone and a couple DIY ones on mine so I don't have to have the coils inside mine for the reasons you mentioned.. in fact I still have 100ft of stainless coil I bought to make coils before changing directions..

I have actually had very good experiences with my stout brand conical for about $400 shipped (12.5gallon) sorry if I already mentioned that in this thread.. there are a bunch of the same type of recent conical threads discussing the same thing so it's tough to keep them straighhonestly I don't know why someone would want the coils in the fermenter... A jacket works better with less hassle, which Is why I believe breweries use jacketed conicals... Soft jackets work just as well.

 

[skraeling]

We'll add you to the waiting list. You're #1435!! (joking but only slightly lol)

damn add me to the list too haha, I've done it professionally at least. I mean ok so maybe it wasnt beer and it was e.coli, but still.

 

[augiedoggy]

CIP on the Chronical.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I-kI6bMc-Y

And my walkthrough with my Chronical: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=579210 Ends with the CIP cleaning too!

I clean my conicals in place too... only it consists of a quick wipe with a cloth and a rinse followed by a spray of sanitizer... It just my opinion here but no need to overcomplicate what could be a very simple process with fitting joints and nooks and crannies to clean inside.. when you factor in the pump and equipment to use a spray ball the cost comparison becomes even more different.

 

[Nagorg]

The recirculated CIP certainly wasn't a requirement but it was something I wanted to do. And I am very much pleased with the results. It really wasn't very complicated either. The biggest problem I faced was resolved with 4 CMU blocks!

 

[Ss_Michael]

Our unit will offer insulation and will be relatively inexpensive. We are developing a CIP ball that'll fit through the 1.5" TC in the lid so the coil can be cleaned while installed. It can also be removed easily be undoing one clamp. Our units are currently being qualified for production and are holding the 6psi we've designed for. Seals for blow off, pressure transfers, pressure ferments and can be capped at the end of fermentation to allow a little bit of carbonation to develop.

We are working our hardest to get them qualified and out to you guys!!

-Tim

My brief comparison of features and pricing wasn't about whether or not you are going to offer insulation, but whether it was included in the price of the fermenter.

Furthermore, I'm not sure that a spray ball mounted all the way over to one side of the vessel would be an effective way to CIP. CIP is most effective when introduced at the vessel's highest point, with uniform pressure, spray pattern, and no shadows.

In addition, I'm not sure what a 4 PSI pressure difference in a fermenter really offers a home brewer, It's much more than you need to transfer, but far too less to carbonate.

For those guys looking to ferment under pressure using a spunding valve, you would be better off with a tank designed to hold greater pressures. When on the rare occasion a professional brewer ferments under pressure in our Pro Tanks to suppress ester production they typically do it up around 10-15 PSI. Since our Pro line FV's are rated for 30 PSI total, its safe.

However, that is typically done to either increase fermenter turn times or impart a unique flavor characteristic. Yet, if done with the wrong yeast strain, adding pressure can stall fermentation, which could negatively impact the outcome.

Lastly, capping a tank without a capable PRVR is something that could damage a vessel or injure someone.

 

[dthompson79]

So everything else being equal. (Lets just assume the jacket and additional chilling coil bring it to the same price as SsBrewtech's) The Spike still has a fully welded/ fully sanitary design. Just sayin

 

[SpikeBrewing]

My brief comparison of features and pricing wasn't about whether or not you are going to offer insulation, but whether it was included in the price of the fermenter.

Furthermore, I'm not sure that a spray ball mounted all the way over to one side of the vessel would be an effective way to CIP. CIP is most effective when introduced at the vessel's highest point, with uniform pressure, spray pattern, and no shadows.

In addition, I'm not sure what a 4 PSI pressure difference in a fermenter really offers a home brewer, It's much more than you need to transfer, but far too less to carbonate.

For those guys looking to ferment under pressure using a spunding valve, you would be better off with a tank designed to hold greater pressures. When on the rare occasion a professional brewer ferments under pressure in our Pro Tanks to suppress ester production they typically do it up around 10-15 PSI. Since our Pro line FV's are rated for 30 PSI total, its safe.

However, that is typically done to either increase fermenter turn times or impart a unique flavor characteristic. Yet, if done with the wrong yeast strain, adding pressure can stall fermentation, which could negatively impact the outcome.

Lastly, capping a tank without a capable PRVR is something that could damage a vessel or injure someone.

I don't think people want vendors going back and forth but we will say that we thoroughly test all of our products. They all work as advertised and will be safe. When it comes to safety we have an outside engineering firm and Professional Engineer sign off on all designs.

If anyone has questions on the new design and/or features please let us know! We'll let you guys choose who's got the best stuff!!

 

[Ss_Michael]

I don't think people want vendors going back and forth but we will say that we thoroughly test all of our products. They all work as advertised and will be safe. When it comes to safety we have an outside engineering firm and Professional Engineer sign off on all designs.

If anyone has questions on the new design and/or features please let us know! We'll let you guys choose who's got the best stuff!!

I completely agree, which is why you probably shouldn't have interjected with a response about your product's theoretical future features when I was addressing someone elses concerns about one of our products.

Furthermore, if you make a policy of antagonistic and discouraging remarks about other manufacturer's products in public outlets, which you clearly do, you should expect a spirited, fact based response from time-to-time.

Just as all of our products work as advertised. Indeed, we can agree on one thing, we'll let the market decide who has the best stuff!

 

[dthompson79]

I completely agree, which is why you probably shouldn't have interjected with a response about your product's theoretical future features when I was addressing someone elses concerns about one of our products.

I'm sorry I missed the part where they interrupted you mid sentence. In your "addressing of concerns" about the PRV you implied on how their design is inferior and they responded in turn.

Furthermore, if you make a policy of antagonistic and discouraging remarks about other manufacturer's products in public outlets, which you clearly do, you should expect a spirited response from time-to-time.

Unless you are speaking of another thread I didn't get this at all

Just as all of our products work as advertised. Indeed, we can agree on one thing, we'll let the market decide who has the best stuff!

and it will


Don't get me wrong I am no shill for Spike. All 3 of my brew house vessels are Ss Brew tech and I am reasonable happy with them.

To me you are coming off as a D*ck with your responses

 

[Xernex]

Can't say I hate hearing both of you sound off on your products- I've got a Spike Kettle, and two SS brew buckets being delivered today - both companies have given me incredible service, and lightning fast responses to questions. I absolutely LOVE my Spike kettle, it's a beast, and my main factor was being able to touch one first at my local shop - that made the decision pretty easy.

Same can be said with the brewbucket - another local shop carries them, after seeing them I decided to buy, 2 of those was less than a conical from either Spike or SS - and honestly I didn't know that I needed a full conical yet - one day perhaps.

TL;DR - Both of you have great points, products, and service - and I do appreciate the involvement here in the community.

 

[Ss_Michael]

I'm sorry I missed the part where they interrupted you mid sentence. In your "addressing of concerns" about the PRV you implied on how their design is inferior and they responded in turn.



Unless you are speaking of another thread I didn't get this at all



and it will


Don't get me wrong I am no shill for Spike. All 3 of my brew house vessels are Ss Brew tech and I am reasonable happy with them.

To me you are coming off as a D*ck with your responses

Actually, I didn't imply anyone's design was inferior, my remarks are purely based on fact, so I'm not sure where you came up with that one.

I think you could look at any public outlet, including social media, do some heavy contemplation and see exactly what I'm talking about. Not just about us, but other homebrew manufacturers as well.

I must be getting you wrong, because that is exactly how your coming off; as a shill. Just look at your response history in this thread alone.