HELP! Need advice on PUMPS

[kitchenwitch]

Hi all, I am actually a brewer of Bone Broth, not beer, but use very much the same equipment as a beer brewer might. I am in need of advice on PUMPS. I want to pump clear broth from a 60 gallon steam kettle, to a filling kettle a few feet away. Does anyone have advice on finding the right pump, where, what, and how much? Would SO appreciate any advice! Thanks!

 

[UndeadFred]

The two most common homebrew pumps are "Chugger" and "March" and what I know from others and reading about them, they work. (My setup isn't that fancy yet.) They start at about $100 and most on-line stores (like AIH, Northern Brewer, etc.) have them... Since people use them with RIMS setups, they pump hot water + sugars (or proteins!) and likely they are rated for that use. I suspect they will work for your application.

Do a google search on those two names..

Fred

 

[LandoLincoln]

Here you go.

https://youtu.be/ipKuHNS75JY

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Some time ago I was reading a few threads about a cheap, like $18, pump.Something about the black one was food safe and the blue one wasn't.It was a tiny little thing that they were saying works.If anyone knows about what Im talking about chime in.Ive been looking for the thread and cant find it

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Some time ago I was reading a few threads about a cheap, like $18, pump.Something about the black one was food safe and the blue one wasn't.It was a tiny little thing that they were saying works.If anyone knows about what Im talking about chime in.Ive been looking for the thread and cant find it

They are called P-38I pumps, the problem is while they are good for homebrew scale of 5 gallons, at his 60+ gallons using those tiny cheap pumps would take 30 minutes pumping perfectly level...with 0 head they only pump 110 Gallons per hour and drops off drastically if your adding any elevation to the output. With it being 60 gallon vessels im going to assume the top of the vessel is atleast 3-4 feet off the ground if not more....and those tiny pumps only have a 6 foot head before there isnt enough power to pump upwards.

A simple March 815 or 809-HS or an equivilent Chugger pump is what he need's i think. 7 Gallons per minute and a big 18 foot head..a 60 gallon vessel is going to be rather tall so your going to want something like that to be able to pump from the ground up the several feet to the top of the other vessel.

Assuming he has to pump upwards of 6-8 feet up, your probably looking at a more modest 4-5GPM? March makes a ton of pumps depending on how fast you want it..hell if you want to pump 200 Gallons a minute up 100 feet they have a pump for you, it just costs a fortune

I'd stick with a stainless pump head for your purposes.

 

[UndeadFred]

Some time ago I was reading a few threads about a cheap, like $18, pump.Something about the black one was food safe and the blue one wasn't.It was a tiny little thing that they were saying works.If anyone knows about what Im talking about chime in.Ive been looking for the thread and cant find it

You mean like one of these? I'm interested, actually if anyone had ever used one.. supplying 12V to it isn't a problem for me...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Solar-H...lity-Food-Grade-212-F-w-Coupler-/381005463497

But I am curious.. for that price it could be a toy to play with...

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

You mean like one of these? I'm interested, actually if anyone had ever used one.. supplying 12V to it isn't a problem for me...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Solar-H...lity-Food-Grade-212-F-w-Coupler-/381005463497

But I am curious.. for that price it could be a toy to play with...

Many people build their breweries around them because they are so cheap if they do go out you can have several on hand as backups, you could have 6 pumps for the price of one Chugger. So even if they do fail every 6 months(not saying they do), does it really matter?

I used one and it failed, but to be fair i was not and am not very good at maintaining or cleaning as fast as i probably should on a brew day.

I know Auggiedog uses them to great success in his Electric brewery as do a lot of others. One benefit is that because they are so small and 1/2" NPT threaded, you could screw them directly into your kettle before the ball valve and have an inline pump rather than having them all over the ground.

Basically what this guy does
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb52LeblmEs[/ame]

Except i'd put the ball valve after the pump as you should never restrict input flow to a pump, only the output.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Wait a minute..."kitchen witch?" BONE BROTH?!

 

[UndeadFred]

Many people build their breweries around them because they are so cheap if they do go out you can have several on hand as backups, you could have 6 pumps for the price of one Chugger. So even if they do fail every 6 months(not saying they do), does it really matter?

I used one and it failed, but to be fair i was not and am not very good at maintaining or cleaning as fast as i probably should on a brew day.

I know Auggiedog uses them to great success in his Electric brewery as do a lot of others. One benefit is that because they are so small and 1/2" NPT threaded, you could screw them directly into your kettle before the ball valve and have an inline pump rather than having them all over the ground.

Basically what this guy does
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb52LeblmEs

Except i'd put the ball valve after the pump as you should never restrict input flow to a pump, only the output.

Cool.. thanks.. Do you know if both types ("Black" and "Tan") are food grade? Only a gew of them are listed as such but all are sold as "for home solar systems" so you'd think maybe it doesn't matter... I think I'm going to pick one up to play with.. thanks.

Fred

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Cool.. thanks.. Do you know if both types ("Black" and "Tan") are food grade? Only a gew of them are listed as such but all are sold as "for home solar systems" so you'd think maybe it doesn't matter... I think I'm going to pick one up to play with.. thanks.

Fred

I know the tan ones supposedly are...then again they are "Made in China" so the authenticity of that statement i dont know. But a lot of people use them and havent died yet?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Wait a minute..."kitchen witch?" BONE BROTH?!

Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.
Thrice and once, the hedge-pig whin'd.
Harpier cries:—'tis time! 'tis time!
Round about the cauldron go;
In the poison'd entrails throw.—
Toad, that under cold stone,
Days and nights has thirty-one;
Swelter'd venom sleeping got,
Boil thou first i' the charmed pot!

Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and cauldron bubble.

Fillet of a fenny snake,
In the cauldron boil and bake;
Eye of newt, and toe of frog,
Wool of bat, and tongue of dog,
Adder's fork, and blind-worm's sting,
Lizard's leg, and owlet's wing,—
For a charm of powerful trouble,
Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.

Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and cauldron bubble.

Scale of dragon; tooth of wolf;
Witches' mummy; maw and gulf
Of the ravin'd salt-sea shark;
Root of hemlock digg'd i the dark;
Liver of blaspheming Jew;
Gall of goat, and slips of yew
Sliver'd in the moon's eclipse;
Nose of Turk, and Tartar's lips;
Finger of birth-strangled babe
Ditch-deliver'd by a drab,—
Make the gruel thick and slab:
Add thereto a tiger's chaudron,
For the ingredients of our cauldron.

Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and cauldron bubble.

Cool it with a baboon's blood,
Then the charm is firm and good.

 

[hvjackson]

The standard homebrewer March / Chugger pumps would definitely work... they are food-safe and (importantly) work with boiling liquid. (The two brands make essentially identical pumps and some parts are even interchangeable between the two brands, so I wouldn't stress about on over the other).

However a standard homebrewing pump, the March 815 (~$170), will probably take 15 or 20 minutes to pump 60 gallons, depending on the tubing and height difference between liquid levels. If you will be doing this regularly or that is an unacceptable amount of time, you might consider stepping up to a "nano brewery" bump, e.g. the Chugger Max or March Nano Brewery Pump. Those should cut the time in 1/2 or 1/3 over the smaller models.

Also remember to plan how you plumb these pumps. Most homebrew pumps are *not* self-priming, meaning they cannot suck up liquid. They must be placed *below* the first kettle, which requires draining the kettle with a hole at the bottom. If you look around this site for brew stand build photos you will see the source vessel always has a bulkhead (and usually a valve) installed at the bottom, and then the pump is mounted below.

 

[kitchenwitch]

Fred, thank you so much! I am looking into those now, will let you know if I find that they work!

 

[kitchenwitch]

They are called P-38I pumps, the problem is while they are good for homebrew scale of 5 gallons, at his 60+ gallons using those tiny cheap pumps would take 30 minutes pumping perfectly level...with 0 head they only pump 110 Gallons per hour and drops off drastically if your adding any elevation to the output. With it being 60 gallon vessels im going to assume the top of the vessel is atleast 3-4 feet off the ground if not more....and those tiny pumps only have a 6 foot head before there isnt enough power to pump upwards.

A simple March 815 or 809-HS or an equivilent Chugger pump is what he need's i think. 7 Gallons per minute and a big 18 foot head..a 60 gallon vessel is going to be rather tall so your going to want something like that to be able to pump from the ground up the several feet to the top of the other vessel.

Assuming he has to pump upwards of 6-8 feet up, your probably looking at a more modest 4-5GPM? March makes a ton of pumps depending on how fast you want it..hell if you want to pump 200 Gallons a minute up 100 feet they have a pump for you, it just costs a fortune

I'd stick with a stainless pump head for your purposes.

WOW! this is exactly the info I needed...and just so you know I am a she not a he- a Kitchen Witch! I am about to dive deep into research on all you mentioned. Will keep everyone posted on what works. Biggest thanks!

 

[kitchenwitch]

Wait a minute..."kitchen witch?" BONE BROTH?!

YES! Kitchen Witch Bone Broth! Do you know us??? :fro:

 

[kitchenwitch]

The standard homebrewer March / Chugger pumps would definitely work... they are food-safe and (importantly) work with boiling liquid. (The two brands make essentially identical pumps and some parts are even interchangeable between the two brands, so I wouldn't stress about on over the other).

However a standard homebrewing pump, the March 815 (~$170), will probably take 15 or 20 minutes to pump 60 gallons, depending on the tubing and height difference between liquid levels. If you will be doing this regularly or that is an unacceptable amount of time, you might consider stepping up to a "nano brewery" bump, e.g. the Chugger Max or March Nano Brewery Pump. Those should cut the time in 1/2 or 1/3 over the smaller models.

Also remember to plan how you plumb these pumps. Most homebrew pumps are *not* self-priming, meaning they cannot suck up liquid. They must be placed *below* the first kettle, which requires draining the kettle with a hole at the bottom. If you look around this site for brew stand build photos you will see the source vessel always has a bulkhead (and usually a valve) installed at the bottom, and then the pump is mounted below.

Ok so we are using a 60 gallon kettle with a draw valve on the bottom to drain out product. I assume I would need to get a hose to hook pump to valve, then hose from other end of pump to second kettle (keep in mind I am a first time pump explorer at this point) That seems like it should work though given the details you laid out. I think I will need to go with the higher end model you mentioned as we are under time/temperature pressure getting broth into second kettle and jarred quickly as it cools (second kettle is not under heated). I put an inquiry in with March, but will also stop by the local homebrew shop here in Santa Cruz called Seven Bridges.

If any other advice occurs to you, lay it on me. This Kitchen Witch has some serious learning to do now that I have a giant kettle! :rockin:

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Ok so we are using a 60 gallon kettle with a draw valve on the bottom to drain out product. I assume I would need to get a hose to hook pump to valve, then hose from other end of pump to second kettle (keep in mind I am a first time pump explorer at this point) That seems like it should work though given the details you laid out. I think I will need to go with the higher end model you mentioned as we are under time/temperature pressure getting broth into second kettle and jarred quickly as it cools (second kettle is not under heated). I put an inquiry in with March, but will also stop by the local homebrew shop here in Santa Cruz called Seven Bridges.

If any other advice occurs to you, lay it on me. This Kitchen Witch has some serious learning to do now that I have a giant kettle! :rockin:

60 gallons, are you boiling an entire cow worth of bones or something in there? Damn!

 

[augiedoggy]

They are called P-38I pumps, the problem is while they are good for homebrew scale of 5 gallons, at his 60+ gallons using those tiny cheap pumps would take 30 minutes pumping perfectly level...with 0 head they only pump 110 Gallons per hour and drops off drastically if your adding any elevation to the output. With it being 60 gallon vessels im going to assume the top of the vessel is atleast 3-4 feet off the ground if not more....and those tiny pumps only have a 6 foot head before there isnt enough power to pump upwards.

A simple March 815 or 809-HS or an equivilent Chugger pump is what he need's i think. 7 Gallons per minute and a big 18 foot head..a 60 gallon vessel is going to be rather tall so your going to want something like that to be able to pump from the ground up the several feet to the top of the other vessel.

Assuming he has to pump upwards of 6-8 feet up, your probably looking at a more modest 4-5GPM? March makes a ton of pumps depending on how fast you want it..hell if you want to pump 200 Gallons a minute up 100 feet they have a pump for you, it just costs a fortune

I'd stick with a stainless pump head for your purposes.

I have used both the 12v and 24v versions of the p38 pump and with the stronger 24v version my flow meter shows that even with pulling through 18lbs of grain and down through my 40"rims and up 28" to the top of my mashtun it still pumps between 1.6-20 gallons per minute. when just pumping wort it actually pumps about 2.3 gallons per minute at the same head height...

another cool feature is if I connect two of these pumps in a series(I use stainless camlock fittings on them) it increased the strength and flow quite a bit...

I agree they are not ideal for a 60 gallon setup but they work great to brew 11 gallon brews..

 

[augiedoggy]

You mean like one of these? I'm interested, actually if anyone had ever used one.. supplying 12V to it isn't a problem for me...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Solar-H...lity-Food-Grade-212-F-w-Coupler-/381005463497

But I am curious.. for that price it could be a toy to play with...

those are them.. the 24v version is better... you can see how I attack mine directly to my rims and kettles using camlock fittings in my thread below.
they are rated for 3 gallons per minute max. I use $6 pwm speed controllers to control the speed rather than ball valves.

these tan pumps are food grade and made of PPS with PPS coated magnets. they were designed for drinking fountains and such but are rated to work with boiling temp liquids. Ive been using them for three years now with no issues except you need to use good filtration with them. because of thier size they dont pump grain well.

 

[Bobby_M]

I think of 50-60 gallons as a tricky threshold where the Chugger 1/20th HP pumps are adequate but not ideal and where the 1/8th HP Chugger Max TEFC is just a touch more pump than you need. However, if you're a buy once kind of person, I would suggest the max. While neither pump is self priming, the higher powered pumps don't seem to lose prime as easily. Also, the TEFC version of the Chugger max is dual voltage ready so 120 or 240 can be used.

 

[UndeadFred]

those are them.. the 24v version is better... you can see how I attack mine directly to my rims and kettles using camlock fittings in my thread below.

Yeah, thanks. I read most of the 122 pages of one of the threads.. I went with a 12V because for some reason the 24V ones are $10 more now (one source in Hong Kong isn't) and I don't have a specific use for a pump yet.. I just want to get one to experiment with at this time.. Also I am a electrical engineer and a ham radio operator so I have big 12V supplies surplus to my needs...

But I'm thinking it would be nice for the winter to have some sort of recirculating eBIAB setup as not having to use the cooler all the time (inside) would be nice. At that point I'd likely either get a 24V pump or just come up with $100 for a Chugger...

I have the stuff to convert my keggle to electric (Spa GFCI, element) and have made some very ghetto HLT's too with 120V elements in them that I am already using...

So to figure out what a pump will do for me in my setup this will work great.. if not I can always use it in one of my other projects like my Chickens.... but this was interesting, including 122 pages of info, 30 of which, as a EE made my head want to explode.. but I digress...