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TX_Brewing

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Help me spend my windfall. I have a total of 625 to spend, and I am looking for opinions on the best way to spend it. My current system is as follows:

8 gallon update international boil kettle
7 gallon stainless mash tun with CPVC manifold
Chugger pump
Generic turkey fryer burner
20’ Immersion chiller that I am about to add a whirlpool arm too for better cooling.
I have this setup in a Brutus 20/Breweasy configuration and really like it so far.

On the cold side I have a Sankey keg I use as a fermenter in a freezer for temp control with an analog Johnson controller.
I also have a kegging system with 1 corny keg.

So here is what I was thinking:

2 more kegs and ingredients (5 batches worth) from AIH priced out with shipped at about $260

Blichmann top tier burner – $162 Local including taxes

Cereal killer grain mill $90 from AIH using points from previous purchase. (Currently have corona mill but only use it for specialty grains.)

This puts me at just over $500, and the remainder I would hold until I find a deal on a used SxS fridge to build out as a combination kegerator and fermentation chamber.

Does this sound like a good plan, or are there better ways to spend my $$
 
Replace your analog Johnson with a STC-1000+ or OhmBrew temp controller to easily do complicated ramp fermentation temp profiles for lagers or saisons

I second the stirplate & flask for starters if you don't already have that
 
Ok, I will look at adding a stirplate and flask.
As far as the kettle, I am the only big drinker in my house so 5 gallon batches are a good balance between quantity and brew frequency.
 
Another 20 of immersion chiller. I have mine in 2 sections. In the winter both go into the kettle, in the summer one is in a bucket of water as a pre-chiller.
More fermenters. I prefer Better Bottles. I have about 6 of them.
Malts and hops in bulk - saves $$

As to the side by side. I don't think they have independent systems. One cooling system controls both sides and cannot be controlled accurately enough to ferment on one side and kegerator on the other side. You would have to control the compressor to fermentation temperatures and hope for the best on the kegerator side.
 
podz said:
Most people who buy 2 litre flasks end up being pretty aggravated that they didn't buy a 5 litre flask.
Click to expand...

Going on 4 years of brewing now and have not felt the need for a 5 liter flask. The very few brews that required a larger starter were easily done by making a stepped starter. (5 Gallon batches)
 
kh54s10 said:
As to the side by side. I don't think they have independent systems. One cooling system controls both sides and cannot be controlled accurately enough to ferment on one side and kegerator on the other side. You would have to control the compressor to fermentation temperatures and hope for the best on the kegerator side.
Click to expand...

On this forum there are people that have done the build using temperature controllers for each side.

Hmm I do have some leftover copper form my IC build that I could add on, probably about 15 or so feet, I may just sweat the two together.
 
I would buy a plate chiller, especially if you already have a pump. Using a plate chiller has really compressed my overall brewday and it's not hard to use. Getting a decent grain mill is always useful, so that's a good choice. If you don't have a decent drill that might be another product to keep in mind. I like Blichmann products but you could shave at least 50 bucks off of that if you bought a Bayou Classic burner.
 
What are your thoughts on maybe upgrading my brew kettle as well? I could sell my old one to offset some of the cost. I am thinking about going to a 10 gallon boilermaker which would help when doing 90 minute boils. Doing this may delay getting the blichmann burner, but I am thinking that may be a trade-off that is worthwhile as I only do 5 gallon batches and don't really need the horsepower offered by the blichmann burner.
 
TX_Brewing said:
Ok, I will look at adding a stirplate and flask.

As far as the kettle, I am the only big drinker in my house so 5 gallon batches are a good balance between quantity and brew frequency.
Click to expand...


Check out Cynmar. I got a heavy-duty, wide-mouth Erlenmeyer for the same $20 as the student-grade, narrow mouth ones they have at the LHBS.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
TX_Brewing said:
What are your thoughts on maybe upgrading my brew kettle as well? I could sell my old one to offset some of the cost. I am thinking about going to a 10 gallon boilermaker which would help when doing 90 minute boils. Doing this may delay getting the blichmann burner, but I am thinking that may be a trade-off that is worthwhile as I only do 5 gallon batches and don't really need the horsepower offered by the blichmann burner.
Click to expand...

I would rather have the Bayou Classic kettle over the Boilermaker if it meant still being able to get a Blichmann burner. I can't compare the kettles, but feel the Bayou is more than adequate for me. With that said, I do have both the Bayou Classic and Blichmann burners and much prefer the Blichmann over the Bayou.

I would also vote going up to a 15 gallon. Since you already have an 8 gallon, a 10 (imo) isn't much of a jump as it would be from a 5 gallon kettle. Since you're ordering from AiH, you could also get their false bottom setup for the bigger kettle if you wanted to do a big beer with a heavy grain bill, I have their false bottom for my cooler and love it.

EDIT: Don't know if there's a huge difference in price, but if there is, I'd go for the Barley Crusher if it will help you allocate more of your budget to other brew items.
 
+1 for the Blichmann burner. A few friends have the Bayou classic burners and they get about 2.5 brews out of a propane tank. With my Blichmann I can go 5-6 brews. That's a gas cost savings of 50% (like $5 a brew), which can add up quickly.
 
The Blichmann burner has the bonus of the leg extension option (about $35). With the extensions, the kettle valve is at the perfect height to drain into a 5-gallon fermenter.
 
TX_Brewing said:
Help me spend my windfall. I have a total of 625 to spend, and I am looking for opinions on the best way to spend it. My current system is as follows:



8 gallon update international boil kettle

7 gallon stainless mash tun with CPVC manifold

Chugger pump

Generic turkey fryer burner

20’ Immersion chiller that I am about to add a whirlpool arm too for better cooling.

I have this setup in a Brutus 20/Breweasy configuration and really like it so far.



On the cold side I have a Sankey keg I use as a fermenter in a freezer for temp control with an analog Johnson controller.

I also have a kegging system with 1 corny keg.



So here is what I was thinking:



2 more kegs and ingredients (5 batches worth) from AIH priced out with shipped at about $260



Blichmann top tier burner – $162 Local including taxes



Cereal killer grain mill $90 from AIH using points from previous purchase. (Currently have corona mill but only use it for specialty grains.)



This puts me at just over $500, and the remainder I would hold until I find a deal on a used SxS fridge to build out as a combination kegerator and fermentation chamber.



Does this sound like a good plan, or are there better ways to spend my $$
Click to expand...


I'd definitely go w/ the Blichmann burner w/ leg extensions. Also consider a CFC for your chilling needs. You can easily do whirl pooling w/ your pump, too.
As someone else mentioned, think about a larger BK. Even though you're doing 5 gal batches that means an avg boil volume of 6.5 gal. That's pretty tight for a good rolling boil. Consider a 10 or even 15 gal Update International & keep the 8 gal for your HLT.
 
podz said:
Most people who buy 2 litre flasks end up being pretty aggravated that they didn't buy a 5 litre flask.
Click to expand...


So darn true. When I first went in to buy my flask, the guys at the LHBS kept on telling me just get the 5l, I should have listened.
 
+1 (or 2 or 3 or 4) on getting a bigger BK. I do mostly 5.5 gal batches, but occasionally 10 gal. I have the 16 gal Bayou, but sometimes even wish I had the 20.
 
Ok pretty easy for me:

Most important thing is temp control during fermenting. If you are happy with your analog control and you are getting good results, fine. If not buy an ohm brew. It allows you to tune your ferment schedule including rests. More importantly it has two outlets, one for your keezer, and one for a heat source (try a heating blanket). This lets you do Belgians and other stubborn ferments in a cold basement in your keezer.

Second I'd buy the grain mill. Its a no brainer.

Third, I'd work on going to electric. It'll save you money in the long run and its more convenient. If you don't want to do that, I'd upgrade to the blischmann burner like you already suggested.

Fourth, I'd buy a stirplate, a 2 liter and a 5 liter flask. Buy both. You'll use the 5 liter for RIS and other high gravity ales, and for lagers. Underpitching yeast is a big problem in homebrewing. As you venture out into different styles you need the correct pitch rate for a clean fermentation.

4th I'd buy a stainless airstone and go to your local hardware store and get a small O2 tank. Again, This would help greatly with fermentation.

5th I'd replace your fermentation vessel with a Speidel 30L fermentor. Why? Well its got plenty of headspace, but more importantly buy an extra spout that attaches to the universal gasket at the top. This will then let you do forced co2 transfers from the fermentor to your keg setup. You'll never have to expose your beer to O2 again and have to deal with racking. The fermentor itself is extremely nice with handles, and the convenience and ridding yourself of O2 is well worth it. Plus the thing is so easy to clean afterwards.

I think those suggestions in that order make the most sense.
 
podz said:
Most people who buy 2 litre flasks end up being pretty aggravated that they didn't buy a 5 litre flask.
Click to expand...

kh54s10 said:
Going on 4 years of brewing now and have not felt the need for a 5 liter flask. The very few brews that required a larger starter were easily done by making a stepped starter. (5 Gallon batches)
Click to expand...


Well, after posting this, last night I did a starter for my Bohemian Lager. I put off brew day for a while so my yeast's viability had dropped. I needed about 2.2 liters. It filled the 2 liter flask to far so I put some in a quart size mason jar. That part is getting intermittent shaking. The 2L flask is on the stirplate doing fine.

I did not allow enough time for a stepped starter. So this is the first time that a 5L flask would have been nice.

I am still not in too much of a hurry to get a 5L flask. I have other things higher up the list.
 
wmilas said:
5th I'd replace your fermentation vessel with a Speidel 30L fermentor. ....This will then let you do forced co2 transfers from the fermentor to your keg setup. You'll never have to expose your beer to O2 again...
Click to expand...

You're only fooling yourself if you think keeping beer in a HDPE container is going to eliminate exposure to oxygen. Those things are way more O2 permeable than even PET.

And you get MUCH more O2 diffusion via the airlock than you think as well. There's a study by BetterBottle showing this. This is your real exposure to O2.
 
MagicMatt said:
You're only fooling yourself if you think keeping beer in a HDPE container is going to eliminate exposure to oxygen. Those things are way more O2 permeable than even PET.

And you get MUCH more O2 diffusion via the airlock than you think as well. There's a study by BetterBottle showing this. This is your real exposure to O2.
Click to expand...

I actually have 3 better bottles that I used to (and sometimes do) ferment in. To address your two comments consider the following:

1) Airlock exposure. During an efficient ferment you inject pure O2 into the cooled wort before the airlock is installed. The container is saturated with O2. O2 isn't an issue as this stage. Wort ferments, a blanket of heavier CO2 layers inside and eventually pushes any residual O2 out. At the same time the yeast is consuming all the O2 in the wort. Once active fermentation starts, wort O2 is negligible and O2 is pushed out of the airlock by co2 welling up from the bottom layer. After fermentation is over, the fermentation vessel has a blanket, if not the whole chamber of co2 on it. Any residual o2 that enter the airlock has a hard time coming into contact with the wort unless the fermentation vessel is agitated.

The mechanical nature of the airlock can be avoided by a simple blowoff tube immersed in a growler of starsan. In this case the only leakage that happens is at the joint the tube enters the plug, and at the plug seal with the fermentation vessel.

2) As to the permeability of HDPE compared to PET. Have you looked at the coefficients of the permeability of both? Both are absurdly low. PET is 0.035, HDPE is 0.3. LDPE is 2.2. As a comparison natural rubber is 23.3. You would be right in saying that HDPE is more permeable than PET but both of the permeability are so low as to almost be undetectable. It would be hard to measure these values outside of a very sophisticated lab. The neoprene (4.0) or natural rubber gaskets on any vessel will leak more O2. A rubber stopper will leak way more by itself just at the joint between the vessel and the stopper compared to any o2 diffusing through the plastic vessel.

3) #1 and #2 pale in comparison to the the biggest introduction of O2. Racking. Racking O2 into a bottle or a keg happens in an oxygenated environment where the wort is agitated in the process. This is where the biggest issue is.

The alternative is to force transfer into a co2 purged keg where there is very little oxygen diffusion through the tubing.

Now if money were no object I'd recommend a SS vessel that can hold up to 5 psi and that eliminates all exposure to o2 diffusion outside of the seals. However as the budget was limited, the above is the best bang for the buck in lowering O2 in a practical manner.
 
wmilas said:
Ok pretty easy for me:



Most important thing is temp control during fermenting. If you are happy with your analog control and you are getting good results, fine. If not buy an ohm brew. It allows you to tune your ferment schedule including rests. More importantly it has two outlets, one for your keezer, and one for a heat source (try a heating blanket). This lets you do Belgians and other stubborn ferments in a cold basement in your keezer.



Second I'd buy the grain mill. Its a no brainer.



Third, I'd work on going to electric. It'll save you money in the long run and its more convenient. If you don't want to do that, I'd upgrade to the blischmann burner like you already suggested.



Fourth, I'd buy a stirplate, a 2 liter and a 5 liter flask. Buy both. You'll use the 5 liter for RIS and other high gravity ales, and for lagers. Underpitching yeast is a big problem in homebrewing. As you venture out into different styles you need the correct pitch rate for a clean fermentation.



4th I'd buy a stainless airstone and go to your local hardware store and get a small O2 tank. Again, This would help greatly with fermentation.



5th I'd replace your fermentation vessel with a Speidel 30L fermentor. Why? Well its got plenty of headspace, but more importantly buy an extra spout that attaches to the universal gasket at the top. This will then let you do forced co2 transfers from the fermentor to your keg setup. You'll never have to expose your beer to O2 again and have to deal with racking. The fermentor itself is extremely nice with handles, and the convenience and ridding yourself of O2 is well worth it. Plus the thing is so easy to clean afterwards.



I think those suggestions in that order make the most sense.
Click to expand...


Hard to choose between Fourth & 4th!
 
wmilas said:
1) Airlock exposure. During an efficient ferment you inject pure O2 into the cooled wort before the airlock is installed. The container is saturated with O2. O2 isn't an issue as this stage. Wort ferments, a blanket of heavier CO2 layers inside and eventually pushes any residual O2 out. At the same time the yeast is consuming all the O2 in the wort. Once active fermentation starts, wort O2 is negligible and O2 is pushed out of the airlock by co2 welling up from the bottom layer. After fermentation is over, the fermentation vessel has a blanket, if not the whole chamber of co2 on it. Any residual o2 that enter the airlock has a hard time coming into contact with the wort unless the fermentation vessel is agitated.

The mechanical nature of the airlock can be avoided by a simple blowoff tube immersed in a growler of starsan. In this case the only leakage that happens is at the joint the tube enters the plug, and at the plug seal with the fermentation vessel.
Click to expand...

This is inaccurate for a couple of reasons. First, gases diffuse. The whole "CO2 blanket" is a complete myth. Carbon dioxide is not heavier than oxygen, but it is denser. So CO2 will, on average, equilibriate slightly lower than O2 in a gravitational field. But the difference in the force of gravity is very small compared to the random thermal motion of the molecules, thus the effect is negated in fermentation scenarios. Consider this:

You have an empty keg that you just sealed. The entire volume of the keg is filled with gas (atmospheric levels & pressure). Now if you pump in CO2 to say 15psi, the CO2 will mix with the gases inside. The gases are evenly mixed and as the pressure inside the keg is raised, it will become higher in CO2 concentration than other gases. If you then disconnected the CO2 and left the keg sitting for a week, you wouldn't find that the CO2 has "settled" out or anything of the sort. There will be next to no stratification of the diffused gases.

Case in point: http://www.jbc.org/content/73/2/379.full.pdf

Secondly, gases can diffuse through liquids from/into the surrounding air. This means that even the small amount of liquid in your airlock will be a catalyst for oxygen introduction into your fermentation vessel. And in fact, it is during active fermentation that this happens most rapidly (oxygen will diffuse through the airlock liquid more quickly when the liquid is agitated due to fermentation activity - i.e. bubbles). Three-piece airlocks are one of the more susceptible designs. And using a blowoff tube is even worse, because those are made of vinyl, which is much more permeable (and the extended length allows for more surface diffusion).

See this study for detailed analysis:
http://www.mocon.com/pdf/optech/Closures - Oxygen Passage Study.pdf


wmilas said:
3) #1 and #2 pale in comparison to the the biggest introduction of O2. Racking. Racking O2 into a bottle or a keg happens in an oxygenated environment where the wort is agitated in the process. This is where the biggest issue is. The alternative is to force transfer into a co2 purged keg where there is very little oxygen diffusion through the tubing.
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree. However, you can also "rack" (using a siphon) to a CO2 purged keg. Gravity is your "force". There's really no difference and I'd rather save the CO2!


Not trying to be rude, just enlighten and thus prevent the propagation of misinformation. Cheers :mug:
 
MagicMatt said:
This is inaccurate for a couple of reasons. First, gases diffuse. The whole "CO2 blanket" is a complete myth. Carbon dioxide is not heavier than oxygen, but it is denser. So CO2 will, on average, equilibriate slightly lower than O2 in a gravitational field. But the difference in the force of gravity is very small compared to the random thermal motion of the molecules, thus the effect is negated in fermentation scenarios. Consider this:

You have an empty keg that you just sealed. The entire volume of the keg is filled with gas (atmospheric levels & pressure). Now if you pump in CO2 to say 15psi, the CO2 will mix with the gases inside. The gases are evenly mixed and as the pressure inside the keg is raised, it will become higher in CO2 concentration than other gases. If you then disconnected the CO2 and left the keg sitting for a week, you wouldn't find that the CO2 has "settled" out or anything of the sort. There will be next to no stratification of the diffused gases.

Case in point: http://www.jbc.org/content/73/2/379.full.pdf

Secondly, gases can diffuse through liquids from/into the surrounding air. This means that even the small amount of liquid in your airlock will be a catalyst for oxygen introduction into your fermentation vessel. And in fact, it is during active fermentation that this happens most rapidly (oxygen will diffuse through the airlock liquid more quickly when the liquid is agitated due to fermentation activity - i.e. bubbles). Three-piece airlocks are one of the more susceptible designs. And using a blowoff tube is even worse, because those are made of vinyl, which is much more permeable (and the extended length allows for more surface diffusion).

See this study for detailed analysis:
http://www.mocon.com/pdf/optech/Closures - Oxygen Passage Study.pdf




Absolutely agree. However, you can also "rack" (using a siphon) to a CO2 purged keg. Gravity is your "force". There's really no difference and I'd rather save the CO2!


Not trying to be rude, just enlighten and thus prevent the propagation of misinformation. Cheers :mug:
Click to expand...


I use silicone tubing, not vinyl, for my blow off tube into a gallon container of StarSan.
Just curious- wouldn't a CO2 molecule by necessity be "heavier" than an O2 molecule?
 
TX_Brewing said:
I knew at some point this would come up. Maybe eventually I will, but for now it isn't in the cards due to how my house is setup vs. where I brew.
Click to expand...

I had the same problem but with your budget you can likely overcome this the same way I did. I use about 75 foot of 6/3 cable to run 220V half way around my house as a super extension cord to the front of the garage where I brew.

You're in Houston so check out the Bay Area Mashtronauts, there's a bunch of us who have gone electric and can teach you to do it on the cheap or otherwise.
 
govner1 said:
I use silicone tubing, not vinyl, for my blow off tube into a gallon container of StarSan.
Just curious- wouldn't a CO2 molecule by necessity be "heavier" than an O2 molecule?
Click to expand...

If you have a gallon of Starsan in the container, be careful of temperature changes. You could get a reverse siphon and get the Starsan sucked into your fermenter. I use a margerine cup with about 1/2 inch of Starsan. That cup is in a stewpot in case it overflows. If I get a reverse siphon less than 1/2 cup of Starsan will get into the beer. All you need is to keep the end of the blow off tube submerged.
 
govner1 said:
I use silicone tubing, not vinyl, for my blow off tube into a gallon container of StarSan.
Just curious- wouldn't a CO2 molecule by necessity be "heavier" than an O2 molecule?
Click to expand...

I was talking about the 1" vinyl blow offs most people (including myself at times) use.

As for the heaviness of CO2 vs O2 - it's a mass vs. weight thing. In everyday usage, the mass of an object is often referred to as its weight even though these are in fact two different concepts and quantities. In scientific contexts, to which I was referring, mass refers loosely to the amount of matter in an object (though "matter" may be difficult to define), whereas weight refers to the force experienced by an object due to gravity.

So yes, the molar mass of CO2 (one mole, or 6.022×10^23 molecules) would weigh more in a gravitational field than then same number (1 mol) of O2 molecules. But in order to accurately compare the "weight" of CO2 in a given volume of airspace, you'd need to know the concentration. If there's only 1 mol of CO2 in a container, but 22 mols of O2, then obviously the oxygen would weigh more. You can't look at it the same way as weighing solids on a scale, because the density of a solid is usually fixed.

Also, we're likely taking about CO2 vs "air", which is roughly 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen. Air and carbon dioxide are completely miscible in all proportions. So although CO2 is deemed "heavier" than air (air has an average molecular weight of 28.8 vs carbon dioxide's molecular weight of 44 -- so it's about 35% heavier than air), it still diffuses into air readily and can be dispersed throughout a given volume of air with ease.

This is because of what I stated earlier regarding the effect of the "weight" of CO2 due to the force of gravity being very small compared to the random thermal motion of gas molecules. Gravity (weight) will not have any noticeable effect on the stratification of gases.
 
MagicMatt said:
This is inaccurate for a couple of reasons. First, gases diffuse. The whole "CO2 blanket" is a complete myth. Carbon dioxide is not heavier than oxygen, but it is denser. So CO2 will, on average, equilibriate slightly lower than O2 in a gravitational field. But the difference in the force of gravity is very small compared to the random thermal motion of the molecules, thus the effect is negated in fermentation scenarios. Consider this:

You have an empty keg that you just sealed. The entire volume of the keg is filled with gas (atmospheric levels & pressure). Now if you pump in CO2 to say 15psi, the CO2 will mix with the gases inside. The gases are evenly mixed and as the pressure inside the keg is raised, it will become higher in CO2 concentration than other gases. If you then disconnected the CO2 and left the keg sitting for a week, you wouldn't find that the CO2 has "settled" out or anything of the sort. There will be next to no stratification of the diffused gases.

Case in point: http://www.jbc.org/content/73/2/379.full.pdf

Secondly, gases can diffuse through liquids from/into the surrounding air. This means that even the small amount of liquid in your airlock will be a catalyst for oxygen introduction into your fermentation vessel. And in fact, it is during active fermentation that this happens most rapidly (oxygen will diffuse through the airlock liquid more quickly when the liquid is agitated due to fermentation activity - i.e. bubbles). Three-piece airlocks are one of the more susceptible designs. And using a blowoff tube is even worse, because those are made of vinyl, which is much more permeable (and the extended length allows for more surface diffusion).

See this study for detailed analysis:
http://www.mocon.com/pdf/optech/Closures - Oxygen Passage Study.pdf




Absolutely agree. However, you can also "rack" (using a siphon) to a CO2 purged keg. Gravity is your "force". There's really no difference and I'd rather save the CO2!


Not trying to be rude, just enlighten and thus prevent the propagation of misinformation. Cheers :mug:
Click to expand...

I know you aren't trying to be rude.

Interesting. I was A Chem Eng. in college for a few years before switching to Comp E. I remember blanketing gasses in the lab for industrial processes. I guess with O2 and Co2 the molecular mass is close enough that in a higher temp environment (room temp) the blanketing is minimal or non existent. At a lower temp environment I KNOW they blanket as I remember doing it :)

So I acknowledge the point. However I still assert that as co2 is produced o2 is pushed out of the airlock. Depending on the volume of co2 produced, and the dispersion of evenly mixed o2 there should be a sharp reduction of o2 in the fully mixed gasses. How much is dependent on co2 turnover and I have no idea what it is. My gut is that the head-space in a typical 5 gallon fermentor is turned over at least 10 times, which would mean a serious reduction in available o2. It would be an interesting experiment to get an o2 sensor in the headpsace and graph it over time... I'm actually inclined to do that at this point. They aren't very expensive :)

As far as dispersion through a liquid medium, you are right, it is most certainly there. But it would have to diffuse thought the medium, then diffuse down the tube... It most certainly does, but at what volume? I don't know and my gut tells me its small. Plus it'll only do it after fermentation is completely finished as there is a pressure difference pushing net co2 out of the tube.

You are correct on the tubing type. I wont argue this. Professional brewers will immediately disconnect the tubing close to the end of fermentation for exactly this reason.

Howerver I still assert that during fermentation the pressure difference will minimize or completely negate diffusion up the tube or through the airlock. There will be more diffusion through an airlock due to "back suck" from the mechanical unit (think of a wave falling back on itself in the ocean as the valve closes). However it'll still be minimal.

The real way to settle this is to get an o2 sensor in the wort and graph o2 saturation over time through fermentation and after fermentation. It'd be interesting.

I'm confused on racking using a siphon? The only way to siphon in a co2 environment is to purge the keg, then hook up co2 to the fermentation vessel. Increase the pressure in the vessel to 1.5 psi or 2 psi then let it drain out into the keg through the liquid port. Keep the valve on the keg open so it degases.

If you don't fill the fermentor with co2, you'll be sucking in o2. That amount of o2 you suck in will be hundreds of times greater than all the o2 that the wort was exposed to during any diffusion during fermentation.

I guess if the fermentor had a REALLY tight seal and was malleable, you could suck the sides in through a siphon and get most of the wort out without letting o2 in, but you wouldn't be able to get all the wort out.
 
JonM said:
The Blichmann burner has the bonus of the leg extension option (about $35). With the extensions, the kettle valve is at the perfect height to drain into a 5-gallon fermenter.
Click to expand...


This is exactly what I do and its's great!
 
wmilas said:
As far as dispersion through a liquid medium, you are right, it is most certainly there. But it would have to diffuse thought the medium, then diffuse down the tube... It most certainly does, but at what volume? I don't know and my gut tells me its small. Plus it'll only do it after fermentation is completely finished as there is a pressure difference pushing net co2 out of the tube.
......
Howerver I still assert that during fermentation the pressure difference will minimize or completely negate diffusion up the tube or through the airlock. There will be more diffusion through an airlock due to "back suck" from the mechanical unit (think of a wave falling back on itself in the ocean as the valve closes). However it'll still be minimal.
Click to expand...

Not according to the report I posted. To quote (from the 3-piece airlock section):
"The oxygen TR would likely be higher if carbon dioxide (produced by fermentation) were stirring (bubbling through) the water and bouncing the floating bell off the inner stem. The flow of the carbon dioxide would not be sufficient to flush oxygen away as the bell float bobbed above the large opening at the top of the inner stem."


I'd definitely be interested to hear the results if you do some headspace analysis! I didn't think those O2 analyzers were that inexpensive.
 
Nothing yet!:eek: I have had a series of events come up where I have been having to wait for the time to brew. I have decided on this though:

2 more kegs giving me 3 total (eventually 2 on tap, 1 aging)
Ingredients for a number of batches
A cereal killer mill
Side by side fridge for a fermentation chamber/kegerator combo.
Blichmann Top Tier Burner
Any remaining funds will go towards a 16 gallon bayou classic homebrew pot, or a stir plate/flask.
 

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