Help me design my Brewery

[sempf]

So I bought my father's house, which is 3700 square foot ranch on 5 acres - amazing beautiful place off of the Darby Creek. We have been working on it for a while (only 15 years old) and it is getting right comfy.

So, for Christmas, SWMBO cleaned out one of the two large storage areas for me, and bought me some brewery signs. I am approved to build a brewery down here. She likes my beer, she likes serving it to people, and she likes giving it as gifts. We are golden.

Here is the space:

I need some help deciding what is important and what isn't, and then what order in which to do things. Most of you are WAY more advanced in the brewing arts than I am and I would appreciate the advice, so I only have to do this once.

Here is where I am. I am an extract brewer, who works out of buckets and bottles in swingtops - really just at the beginning, even though I have five years under my belt. Equipment I have to work with includes:

• A big sink
• a fridge with a thermostat
• an electric range (though I have to run 220)
• lots of shelves
• normal beginning brewing stuff - buckets, Better Bottles, brew pot, capper, chemicals, that's about it.

Here is what I am thinking:

• It would be cool if I could do EVERYTHING downstairs. Can I effectively brew on electric?
• I can't blow a ton of cash, but I can spend money on things I need to make it right. SWMBO wanted a lager for Cinco de Mayo, and I got a thermostat for the fridge, for instance.
• I am interested in kegging and all grain, but it isn't necessary - I think the extract beer is damn good!

I will take any and all advice. Construction methods, stuff I need to buy, suppliers I need to look into, anything that you think will help me out. I need to make a plan and execute it over January (or thereabouts).

Thanks in advance, and if you are even in Columbus, stop by and I'll share a brew!

S

 

[homebeerbrewer]

I'd recommend a vent hood if you brew inside. If you use NG or LP, you'll have to vent, but even with electric, you'll have a lot of steam. Congrats, and keep us posted on your progress.

 

[Surly]

You are correctly starting out seeking advice.

The key you gave was that you need to work within a budget. From your post I gather you are fairly new to the hobby. The future looks good for you.

But for now take a step back and don't purchase a thing. Develop your plan for developing your plan. Read everything you can. Decide what will power your boil kettle. From there you will begin moving and purchasing the equipment you need.

Begin brewing in the garage. That will give you some ideas on where you want to go with the big picture.
Good luck.

 

[sempf]

But for now take a step back and don't purchase a thing. Develop your plan for developing your plan. ... Decide what will power your boil kettle.

Excellent advice. Can I use this electric stove I have you think? That would be optimum, 'casue otherwise it is the stove in the kitchen upstairs, or LP outside.

S

 

[homebeerbrewer]

I don't think an electric stove will give you enough heat to boil 5 gallons. I could be wrong though, I've never used an electric stove.

 

[Surly]

Excellent advice. Can I use this electric stove I have you think? That would be optimum, 'casue otherwise it is the stove in the kitchen upstairs, or LP outside.

S

When I first started out I brewed five gallon batches on an electric stove.

I would recommend you get a turkey fryer and learn the art of brewing with that. At the same time, begin to learn from others that have set up a brewery.

One piece of advice, do not buy the same piece of equipment two times. Make your purchases with an eye to the future.

 

[Pash91]

I had to use an electric stove at a friend's house. We could barely do a partial boil. It definitely wasn't boiling...

 

[Brewmoor]

It would be pretty cheap to build an electric Boil Kettle. Hot water heater elements are about $20. You could put one in a cheap aluminum/SS pot. This way you can start off with extract and then when you decide to go AG you already have one piece to the puzzle.

You said you are going to run 220 anyway. This would be a great way to start. You will get frustrated pretty quickly with an electric stovetop. Though it can be done.

Here is a link to commercial unit. Though you said your on a budget, this might be too much. You could copy the design though and just make one vessel for boiling extract.

http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=2351&IDCategory=276

Good luck. I wish I had my own dedicated space. I have to share my garage with my girlfriend and my roomate, and we all have lots of toys.

 

[oceanselv]

I used SWIMBO's electric stove for a few extracts and had boil overs when I went with a partial mash. One of the problems I encountered was using a 15 qt stainless pot. I didn't have good enough temperature control with the electric to prevent the boil overs. I used the same pot and recipes on a gas stove a few years earlier and did not have any problems. If you want to use an electric stove, try using a trivet. A trivet will elevate the pot off the heating element and give you better temperature control. However, I don't think you will have enough btu's in an electric heating element to do a full 5 gallon boil without constantly burring out the element. If you decide to go all grain, a simple inexpensive method is to buy a turkey fryer and use a cooler as you mash tun and another as the HLT. But don't do this in your basement without proper ventilation. I brew with the same set up in my driveway or garage with both doors open. My total cost was about $300 including the $80 I spent on lumber for a brew rig and work table. Hope this helps

 

[brewmonk]

Are there any local breweries? I bought kegs for scrap from the brewery, they were in better condition than the junkyard dent magnets. I use the best one as a fermenter, others are mlt and boiler/hlt.

Think about how you are going to treat the walls. When steam soaks in to the dry cement, I'd hate to see what ends up growing on it. (Sheetrock? Tile? Or waterproof/epoxy and paint?) ceiling too. Are you going to insulate?

Wheels, wheels, wheels (or cantilevered benchtops). If you can't clean it, it aint clean. if you can't clean UNDER it, then NOTHING is clean.

Lighting and electrical gets roughed in first (need a permit?)

Get yourself 2 corny kegs and a $6 picnic tap (then you will be properly hooked, for $46!) I made do with 'natural carbonating' and a little CO2 bike tire inflator (to seal the keg w/ pressure) till I got a tank. Oh, I bought the threaded qd's and I can hook up any configuration to any pre-sized tube in minutes: gas-in, beer-out, gas-out, a schraeder valve for CO2 charging w/ an inflator nozzle, etc.. And they unscrew to wash.

Properly treat the rough space, and you don't have to tear everything down years later because you forgot to waterproof behind the cementboard.

 

[sempf]

Wow, this is some fantastic feedback. Thanks, everyone.

First thing: Is it really that important to finish the space? I wasn't even going to bother, but now you have me thinking. Aside from aesthetics, will it make a difference?

Second, yeah, I have something of a budget, but I won't shy away from getting something expensive. We are fortunate, unlike so many, and have had lots of work through the downturn. If there is that one thing I can get that will just make my like X amount easier, then tell me for sure.

If I put in some kind of vent (I think I can get to an outside wall with a little digging) do you think I can run LP down there? I would be up for that.

Cleaning. Yeah. Good point. I'll plan for that. That might be a reason to finish everything right there.

Seems that the general consensus is that the stove won't help me. Bummer. It's a freebie!

Anyway, thanks, and keep 'em coming. I'm reading everything I can get my hands on.

S

 

[Surly]

Would an insurance company offer to replace your home if you were using a gas cooking grill in the basement and you had a house fire? Maybe a cooking grill would be covered, "but you were making what?, In your house?"

I am always uncomfortable with people using flame in their home.

 

[sempf]

Would an insurance company offer to replace your home if you were using a gas cooking grill in the basement and you had a house fire? Maybe a cooking grill would be covered, "but you were making what?, In your house?"

I am always uncomfortable with people using flame in their home.

I have LP connected to my house for my stovetop ion the kitchen! What's the difference? (Not being argumentative, though it sounds like it. Just honestly curious.)

S

 

[Surly]

I have LP connected to my house for my stovetop ion the kitchen! What's the difference? (Not being argumentative, though it sounds like it. Just honestly curious.)

S

The difference to you and I is nothing. To an insurance company that does not want to pay out, everything. Sue them and you end up in front of a jury.

Think about it, a jury that is told, "This guy uses a 120,000BTU open flame in his basement, burns his house down and wants payment for it."

An insurance company makes a profit when they do not pay out. They would be all over this one.

I just caution you to be careful.

 

[sempf]

The difference to you and I is nothing. [...]
I just caution you to be careful.

THAT is a very good point.

S

 

[erikrocks]

The electric stove + a heatstick might be enough for you to rock a full boil.

 

[homebeerbrewer]

...
Think about it, a jury that is told, "This guy uses a 120,000BTU open flame in his basement, burns his house down and wants payment for it."
...

If done properly, propane is safe. If you want to go that route, look at the brew sculptures on this site. There are a lot of good designs, and having a sculpture set up in the basement, with the proper ventilation, shouldn't be a concern. Just make sure that you don't have flammable materials, including lumber, nearby. A single tier sculpture would probably be better too. From the look of the basement in your picture, it would be better to leave it unfinished. Concrete doesn't burn.

 

[ahansen]

I setup a rig in my garage and went over the designs at least a hundred times and would still change things if I did it over. You'll be amazed how the little things make brewing so much easier. Here's my take:

1. Get yourself a big sink with an extendable faucet and/or garden sprayer (hot and cold water too if you can)
2. Finish the space around the sink - nothing fancy, but greenboard with a good primer etc (might even consider buying a cheap countertop from HomeDepot to work on)
3. I use a regular stove with a basic vent overhead. Find this on craigslist (cheap) and depending on the size of your brew pot - you can use 2 burners to heat the water (start with hot water and you're up to temp very very quickly)
4. Lots of storage - look on craigslist for used cabinets or go to Menards and buy them over time. I can't tell you how a couple of cabinets and a bit of organization can really simplify your brew day (especiallty if you want to brew 2 or 3 batches back to back)
5. Watch this site and others for brewing equipment. I have a pretty good setup and am always looking for trinkets. Here's the order that I would go after:
a) Big pot for brewing in - 15qt won't last you too much longer
b) Big igloo cooler for a mash tun (might be easier to find this a Home Depot)
c) Cornies - the guy here who has them for $16 each (I just got 4 - all were awesome)
d) Sanyo frige or some used kegerator (full size is better becase you can store hops)
e) Wort chiller (watch classifieds here too)
f) Save the malt grinder, march pump etc for later
6. Take some cash, go to buy:
a) Big container of StarSan (or whatever you use to clean)
b) Lots of food grade tubing to piece this together
c) Good garbage can, clamps, shelves, washers etc
d) Whatever parts you need to make your mash-tun whole

Since this is something I'm always noodling - my approach is to keep things simple, let gravity do its thing and put the sink in the middle of the design. FWIW, I use a mash-tun, no lauter-tun (use two kettles - 15qt and 30qt) and do lots of countertop to bucket on floor manuvers (but I also call this my exercise to keep the wife at bay .

Good luck...

PS: As an aside - if you don't have a good local brew shop, move malt grinder up to the must haves and get good containers to store your base grain, specialty malts and hops on-site for a rainy day.

 

[brewmonk]

That *is* the reality of life. (But, that is partly what permits are for.)

You get a "second kitchen" with a permit pulled, on the books, and legal, and that changes who's court the ball is in, somewhat. Do what necessary for it to meet code. It's done to a professional level, and on file at town hall as being in your house.

Having said that, yeah playing with a blowtorch that points toward the ceiling aint exactly Harvard material

As far as my finishing my brewspace, Sempf, I don't like eating in a dirty restaurant. I just don't want my friends having to guess how clean my standards are (that and tile is more fireproof than most other easily cleanable (bleachable) SURFACES.

(Dude, I know that I made this in my basement, and that's a toilet drain RIGHT THERE, but other than the dust and bugs, not much else could have touched the wort.)

so, it makes me feel better about being there, and makes things easier.

Do you have a plumber friend to talk to? Or just a plumber?

You have a much bigger space than I do. What about make a "clean corner"?

p.s. You are going to have a space you'll be proud of, congratulations. Have a blast.
do as much as you want.

 

[Surly]

If done properly, propane is safe. If you want to go that route, look at the brew sculptures on this site. There are a lot of good designs, and having a sculpture set up in the basement, with the proper ventilation, shouldn't be a concern. Just make sure that you don't have flammable materials, including lumber, nearby. A single tier sculpture would probably be better too. From the look of the basement in your picture, it would be better to leave it unfinished. Concrete doesn't burn.

I am not at all suggesting that it is not safe to brew in the basement, or, inside a home. But that is not the issue.

An insurance company will try to get out of making payments. They are very good at that. It is very profitable for them.

IMHO, most people would agree with them when they say, "Why would anybody place a 170,00BTU burner in their home? And then they would ask the jury, "would you?" End of discussion. I believe the insurance company would win on that one.

Homebrewers need to look at that and make a decision based on that consideration. I for one would not like to be responsible for the loan on my home when the home is no longer there.

 

[Want2Brew]

I am not at all suggesting that it is not safe to brew in the basement, or, inside a home. But that is not the issue.

An insurance company will try to get out of making payments. They are very good at that. It is very profitable for them.

IMHO, most people would agree with them when they say, "Why would anybody place a 170,00BTU burner in their home? And then they would ask the jury, "would you?" End of discussion. I believe the insurance company would win on that one.

Homebrewers need to look at that and make a decision based on that consideration. I for one would not like to be responsible for the loan on my home when the home is no longer there.

I have a 180,000 btu gas burner in my basement, it heats my home. Why is using a turkey fryer in a well vented basement any different that using it in an attached garage? So lets say some one rigs up an electric brew kettle and has it in there basement and, the floor is wet and they are electrocuted. Will there life insurance not pay because they did some thing that others my never dream of or my consider un-safe or un-orthodox? Just curious?

 

[Bobby_M]

You're 180k burner is in an industry accepted configuration with appropriate venting that was inspected after installation. You're not suggesting running a propane burner down there is even close to the same thing right?

 

[Surly]

I have a 180,000 btu gas burner in my basement, it heats my home. Why is using a turkey fryer in a well vented basement any different that using it in an attached garage? So lets say some one rigs up an electric brew kettle and has it in there basement and, the floor is wet and they are electrocuted. Will there life insurance not pay because they did some thing that others my never dream of or my consider un-safe or un-orthodox? Just curious?

I am not attempting to suggest that home brewing cannot be done safely in ones home.

I would though rather not see somebody have to justify what they did to an insurance company that would love to deny a claim.

Personally, I would think it very difficult to win an appeal of a denied claim. I don't want to see a brewer stuck with a mortgage to pay and no home, or, extensive damage to one.

People need to thinks about this.

 

[brewmonk]

I think that we are getting off the topic a little, he can certainly see that there is an issue here, and decide how he wants to proceed.

The overgeneralized points, though, are be careful, and C.Y.A. And again, instead of arguing about the courtroom, just make sure that it passes inspection first! 80/20 rule in action.

(Not to add fuel to this fire, but how many others keep a fire extinguisher within reach? I know that there are things I could do safer, and if pointed out I'll change, but where do you draw the line?)



HEY, are there any thread on safety? (e.g.I hope that I'll ever need it, but I also have a CO monitor.)

 

[CPTHOOK]

I think that we are getting off the topic a little, he can certainly see that there is an issue here, and decide how he wants to proceed.

The overgeneralized points, though, are be careful, and C.Y.A. And again, instead of arguing about the courtroom, just make sure that it passes inspection first! 80/20 rule in action.

(Not to add fuel to this fire, but how many others keep a fire extinguisher within reach? I know that there are things I could do safer, and if pointed out I'll change, but where do you draw the line?)



HEY, are there any thread on safety? (e.g.I hope that I'll ever need it, but I also have a CO monitor.)

i keep two fire extinguishers with in 20 feet of my brewing area. But no Co monitor. that is a great idea i will note it on the list. Any one wear any type of PPE's (personel protective equipment)when they brew?

 

[sempf]

I use a leather apron, which has saved my cookies once or twice. I have hot gloves for moving the kettle. No goggles though, but I do wear eyeglasses.

I see this issue of heating is more complex than I thought. I really do appreciate the discussion on that.

Should I concern myself with these rigs with the pipes and spigots, or is that just overkill? They seem to be THE topic of discussion here in DIY.

(BTW, I do have a fire extinguisher handy where I brew. Only unitasker in the kitchen, ya know!!)

S

 

[brewmonk]

Sempf, I disagree. I almost had to use my fire extinguisher to crush my grain once.

The valves and gizmos are nice, cause I'm a 'hardware geek' (computers, music, brewing, woodworking). They also (can) help with cleanliness and my back muscles.

Hey, I started a safety thread.

 

[Want2Brew]

You're 180k burner is in an industry accepted configuration with appropriate venting that was inspected after installation. You're not suggesting running a propane burner down there is even close to the same thing right?

If done properly I believe that it would be as safe or in some cases safer than some furnace and water heater installs that I have seen. But I agree that if not done properly it could be very bad. I guess my point is that there are certain inherent dangers that go along with brewing and the same exact argument could be made for a miss-wired electric brew kettle that caused a fire or worse bodily harm or death. So im not really disagreeing with you guys so much as underling that fact that no matter what heat source is used one must be careful and as suggested previously make sure things are code compliant and above all done in the safest way possible. If this is done there should never be a worry about dealing with an insurance company.

 

[Want2Brew]

Sempf, I disagree. I almost had to use my fire extinguisher to crush my grain once.

Now thats just funny, I don't care who you are

Good call on the safety thread

 

[brewmonk]

Sempf, I guess a tidbit for your setting up would be to get it quickly in a state of usefulness (able to brew), and then take your time fitting it out the way you want. Otherwise you'll either not be making beer, or spending at least twice what you should have.

Draw pictures, google everything, Take it down to step-by-step instructions so you not only get a good spoon/paddle, but a cup or bucket to store it in water between uses.