HELP! Fermentation chamber won't cool

[lilbova3]

I recently bought a new fridge (about 8 months ago) and kept the old one to become my fermentation chamber. I use a Johnson controller to control the temp. The fridge is having issues cooling now.

The fridge is about 9 years old. I live in SC and my fridge is located in my garage so it is susceptible to some pretty big temp swings (not sure how big of an issue that could be).

Things I've tried:
-I tilted the fridge on its side to clean the coils underneath and get out any other dust or debris, hasn't seemed to help.
-I unplugged the fridge for 10-20 mins and then plugged it back in to see if it would reset, no luck.

Any other suggestions before having to call someone or buy a new one?

 

[IslandLizard]

I have a fridge just like that, and ours don't stand alone either.

For some unexplained reason, at least to me, refrigerators suddenly give up the ghost after a few years of service. Most often the culprit is believed to be a bad compressor and/or a leak, losing the refrigerant. The last being the most common from what I've read. How and why they develop a leak after those years is beyond me. Fridges used to last 20-30 years and longer.

Repairs are prohibitively expensive unless you can do it yourself and have the special equipment needed or know someone who does and can be bribed with some good homebrew. If the leak is in a difficult or impossible place to get to, you may never find it.

I'd say get another fridge instead. Sorry to bring the bad news.

 

[kombat]

If your garage gets below freezing, then that's your problem. Normal fridges and freezers aren't designed to work in such cold temperatures. You've probably burned out your compressor. I had the same problem with a second-hand chest freezer I kept in my garage. Worked great through the summer, worked great through the winter (when only the heating circuit ever came on), but by the spring, it would not cool below 50° F, even when running constantly.

 

[IslandLizard]

If your garage gets below freezing, then that's your problem. Normal fridges and freezers aren't designed to work in such cold temperatures. You've probably burned out your compressor. I had the same problem with a second-hand chest freezer I kept in my garage. Worked great through the summer, worked great through the winter (when only the heating circuit ever came on), but by the spring, it would not cool below 50° F, even when running constantly.

I've been thinking that cold ambient temps may kill fridges and freezers for some reason.
But if the compressor doesn't need to come on since it's so cold already, how would that burn out then?

 

[kombat]

I'm not an HVAC mechanic, all I know is that if you Google it, you'll see that it's a common problem. It has something to do with the compressor getting confused by the outside air temperature, and/or the oil thickening up and burning out the compressor. I watched them haul away my dead freezer, so I know it's not a myth.

 

[Homercidal]

I'm not a fridge or freezer expert, but I can't understand how they would burn out if they don't turn on. I know cars can sometimes lose their AC gas in some really cold winter due to poor seal design in the connectors, but I think most fridges and freezers have soldered joints, rather than fittings. And if the unit isn't cycling, thick oil should not be a problem.

I think it might make sense to unplug a freezer in the winter in case there is an error in the controller programming. I've had the same upright freezer running on a Johnson and then an STC for several years no problem. (Other than the small fire from a heater accident I won't go into, and a door that also now doesn't seal properly.)

So I know the cold weather doesn't affect fridges and freezers because I haven't seen them haul away my freezer...

Actually, with a good scrub with cleanser and a pair of latches it would make a decent unit for someone.

 

[kombat]

I don't think the problem is when they're not turned on, I think the issue is when you're in those "in-between" seasons. Like I said, I can't explain the mechanics of it all, but if you Google "fridge in garage in winter," you'll get tons of hits about people with similar experiences. They even sell conversion kits you can use to enable your fridge/freezer to work in the garage in the winter, so it's clearly not something all fridges and freezers can do right out-of-the-box.

 

[Homercidal]

All of the googles I looked at seemed to point to the thermostat not kicking on in the fridge. Nothing so far about damaging a freezer or refrigerator. I'll keep looking.

 

[Homercidal]

Well, the OP is talking about a fridge/freezer combo. Different from what I use. There may be something about the freezer unit thawing while the fridge side is cold enough. Seems that hard-wired thermostat attached to a Johnson or STC should kick on the machine regardless.

 

[lilbova3]

Busy day at work so I haven't been able to reply... Living in the southern part of SC we do get some days down near freezing but I would think being in a garage it would still be somewhat protected from the elements and not get below freezing. i.e. a car parked in a garage never gets frost. I'm not specialist but think that wouldn't be the issue, but what do I know.

My mom has a fridge from what looks to be like 1930 in her garage in Illinois and it's still running fine. And that's in the frozen tundra of Illinois. A lot colder temps than here!

I'm scared to say it but I bet it's a goner as well. Was hoping it wouldn't be though.

 

[Firewalker11]

Refrigeration is part of my daily work and I run into this all of the time. There are a few things already spoken of that cause the compressor to fail but the reasons are the problem of fluid.

The compressor can only compress a gas, once the compressor gets cold, all of the refrigerant condensates into a liquid and sits in the compressor since its often at the lowest point of the refrigerator/freezer. Once the compressor kicks in (outside temp may not play as large a roll in this, the fermentation or the temperature of the items inside the case may influence the thermostat more than you think) and it is full of a liquid, the compressor seizes and the windings overheat, causing any water trapped in the system to turn into acidic fluid further degrading the motor and the mechanical parts.

One way to keep a refrigerator/freezer outside (enen up here in the north) is to use an engine block heater to keep the compressor warm. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...VSrlTqvMU-0ylIh4Yu90mGKc7KIonzsVR9RoClwbw_wcB

 

[IslandLizard]

Refrigeration is part of my daily work and I run into this all of the time. There are a few things already spoken of that cause the compressor to fail but the reasons are the problem of fluid.

The compressor can only compress a gas, once the compressor gets cold, all of the refrigerant condensates into a liquid and sits in the compressor since its often at the lowest point of the refrigerator/freezer. Once the compressor kicks in (outside temp may not play as large a roll in this, the fermentation or the temperature of the items inside the case may influence the thermostat more than you think) and it is full of a liquid, the compressor seizes and the windings overheat, causing any water trapped in the system to turn into acidic fluid further degrading the motor and the mechanical parts.

One way to keep a refrigerator/freezer outside (enen up here in the north) is to use an engine block heater to keep the compressor warm.

Thank you, that's a great explanation, and from a pro!

Question: If a fridge or freezer is exposed to freezing temps for a few months or longer, then gets brought back into service when the weather warms up, would that acidic liquid have compromised the compressor system as well? IOW, fridges and freezer should be protected from freezing temps for longer periods?

 

[lilbova3]

Refrigeration is part of my daily work and I run into this all of the time. There are a few things already spoken of that cause the compressor to fail but the reasons are the problem of fluid.

The compressor can only compress a gas, once the compressor gets cold, all of the refrigerant condensates into a liquid and sits in the compressor since its often at the lowest point of the refrigerator/freezer. Once the compressor kicks in (outside temp may not play as large a roll in this, the fermentation or the temperature of the items inside the case may influence the thermostat more than you think) and it is full of a liquid, the compressor seizes and the windings overheat, causing any water trapped in the system to turn into acidic fluid further degrading the motor and the mechanical parts.

One way to keep a refrigerator/freezer outside (enen up here in the north) is to use an engine block heater to keep the compressor warm. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...VSrlTqvMU-0ylIh4Yu90mGKc7KIonzsVR9RoClwbw_wcB

Will you come look at my fridge for free beer?

Probably a stupid question but where is and what does the compressor look like?

 

[Firewalker11]

Thank you, that's a great explanation, and from a pro!

Question: If a fridge or freezer is exposed to freezing temps for a few months or longer, then gets brought back into service when the weather warms up, would that acidic liquid have compromised the compressor system as well? IOW, fridges and freezer should be protected from freezing temps for longer periods?

The acids are caused by intense heat caused by the motor locking up. Just warm the compressor up to room temp first and you are fine.

No, the cold has no effect on the compressor EXCEPT that it may seize due to not moving fer several months. The piston needs oil just like a car to move freely. Simply turn it upside down for a few minutes to wash the piston in oil and turn it back upright and let sit for a day. If its a BIG ole fridge, just lay it on its side for a few minutes and then set upright and wait a day before starting.

Just remember, mechanical equipment will work longer if it is kept moving and kept clean.

 

[Firewalker11]

Will you come look at my fridge for free beer?

Probably a stupid question but where is and what does the compressor look like?

The refrigerant issue is a separate issue, the fix is a long tail and I will tell it tomorrow but yes, I fix AC units, commercial refrigeration and chillers in trade all of the time. Mr. Tax man has a lot harder time valuing barter than cash. :rockin:

The compressor is in a black canister under the fridge. It is hermetically sealed in the can with the motor (direct drive). Its bathed in refrigerant and oil.

 

[IslandLizard]

The acids are caused by intense heat caused by the motor locking up. Just warm the compressor up to room temp first and you are fine.

No, the cold has no effect on the compressor EXCEPT that it may seize due to not moving fer several months. The piston needs oil just like a car to move freely. Simply turn it upside down for a few minutes to wash the piston in oil and turn it back upright and let sit for a day. If its a BIG ole fridge, just lay it on its side for a few minutes and then set upright and wait a day before starting.

Just remember, mechanical equipment will work longer if it is kept moving and kept clean.

Again, thank you! It's really good to know how to treat them right.

I've seen more than a few posts where people bought a used "working" fridge or freezer and a short time later they find it stopped cooling. So I was wondering if there was a connection. Agreed, mechanical equipment should be kept moving regularly.

 

[lilbova3]

The refrigerant issue is a separate issue, the fix is a long tail and I will tell it tomorrow but yes, I fix AC units, commercial refrigeration and chillers in trade all of the time. Mr. Tax man has a lot harder time valuing barter than cash. :rockin:



The compressor is in a black canister under the fridge. It is hermetically sealed in the can with the motor (direct drive). Its bathed in refrigerant and oil.

So there may be hope, but not much? I look forward to your tale and hope it helps my poor fridge. Thanks.

 

[Firewalker11]

So there may be hope, but not much? I look forward to your tale and hope it helps my poor fridge. Thanks.

No, sorry, not much hope. Once dead, they stay dead.

But lets look at the future and not get hung up on what cannot be changed. Small, sealed refrigerators and freezers are sealed units, there are usually no fittings anywhere in the system and its all brazed together to eliminate refrigerant loss.

The tail as promised: Once upon a time, the evil EPA decided to outlaw CFC gases that would destroy the ozone layer. Laws were passed that allow fines up to $27,500 per day for allowing refrigerants into the atmosphere and a bounty of $10,000 for turning in somebody that allowed that gas into the atmosphere.

We have very specific recovery equipment that pulls all that gas out of the system and stores it in a canister. Then we can use virgin gas and fill your system after brazing an access valve into the system since there are few ways to get into the system now. This keeps people from "huffing" the gas or letting it out as they "test" the system to see if there is gas in the system.

There really is no "right" amount of gas by weight to put back in the system, its really a matter of having the right "superheat" and "subcooling" on the system as it is working. the manufacturer gives us a ballpark and we take it from there.

Here is the bad news for all the small systems: A new compressor (installed) will cost you MORE than the refrigerator in most cases. I collect compressors from refrigerators that are abandoned by the owners and pull the parts that are reusable. The reason is that it costs a LOT of money to get rid of your old refrigerant, at least $1.00 a pound, which may not seem like much until you understand that we can pull #100 every day! AND, each type of gas (134A for cars and some some small systems, 404A for newer larger refrigerators and many, many more gases)

I seldom get out of a house or business with less that a $350.00 invoice for them.

How can YOU check out a refrigerator/freezer when doing a Craigslist buy? Ask the seller to plug it in and put just one bottle of water in the unit, have them set it to the lowest temp it can go to and see where the bottle is after 24 hours. If not frozen, not cooled, frozen, then pass and move on.

 

[lilbova3]

Need some more help all. Just had the craziest thing happen. I got a new fridge. An old old old one from work and I figured, it's old and the story goes these old ones work great. Well it just died on me.

Here's what I'm thinking, it was plugged into the exact same outlet in my garage as the other one. Could something be wrong with the outlet. Does the fridge need too many amps or something? Should I look into a smaller unit?

Seriously, two fridges dead in my garage with no answer. Anybody have an idea?

 

[Michigan_Wolfman]

Might want to start with checking the outlet first to be sure it isn't the culprit.

 

[Konadog]

Does the light in the fridge(s) turn on when you open the door? If not, you blew a breaker or fuse most likely.

If you don't have a light in them, plug a lamp into one of the outlets to check, unless you have a meter to check with.

 

[lilbova3]

Might want to start with checking the outlet first to be sure it isn't the culprit.

Does the light in the fridge(s) turn on when you open the door? If not, you blew a breaker or fuse most likely.

If you don't have a light in them, plug a lamp into one of the outlets to check, unless you have a meter to check with.

The lights do come on on both fridges when plugged in. They just don't 'run' and get cold.

 

[kombat]

Did you give it 24 hours after moving it for the oil to settle back down into the compressor before plugging it in? Have you had big temperature swings in your area recently?

 

[lilbova3]

Did you give it 24 hours after moving it for the oil to settle back down into the compressor before plugging it in? Have you had big temperature swings in your area recently?

I gave it more than 24 hours. Gave it 3 or 4 days to settle!

I wouldn't say big temp swings. The garage is disconnected from the house and I do live in southern SC. So it does get hot here. But my mom has a fridge in her garage in IL and temps get super cold there in the winter and has no issues with the fridge.

 

[kombat]

In my experience, and according to research I've found, keeping a fridge or freezer in a garage in a region that gets freezing temperatures will eventually kill the fridge/freezer. However, I don't think that's the cause in your case, as at this time of year, I highly doubt your garage has been dropping below freezing at night.

As for your mother's fridge, maybe Illinois doesn't get terribly cold winters? Maybe she's installed a conversion kit on the fridge enabling it to function outdoors in freezing temperatures? Maybe she's just been lucky so far? But AFAIK, a bone-stock fridge/freezer is not built to handle freezing temperatures, and the compressor WILL eventually die. It happened to me personally.

 

[lilbova3]

That's why I'm thinking it's electrical.