Hello from Atlanta!

[Mr_Shinkai]

I'm just getting started with cider brewing. I have a friend who told me about his cider-making venture, and I immediately gained interest myself. One of my friends picked up on my interest, and gave me a Mr. Beer Cider kit for Christmas. Although the first batch turned out too dry, I'm still really excited to hone my technique and start producing some really good ciders, lemonades, and hopefully teas. I've been on the site for about a week, trying to pick up advice and helpful ideas from anyone willing to pitch in a word or two. Right now, I'm trying to decide if I want to pick up a 5 gallon bucket or carboy this week. Any suggestions on preference?

Thank you to everyone posting recipes on the site, and I'm going to try get busy with my own contributions soon!

 

[Skagdog]

Welcome,
I like glass carboys but that is ONLY MY OPINION. There are many folks who love their buckets. The only problem I have had with carboys is a lack of them. The do cost more so I just pick up a 6.5 every now and again.

Happy Brewing!

 

[emjay]

I would get one of each. Having the extra capacity doesn't hurt, and you can decide for yourself which you like better.

 

[Skagdog]

I would get one of each. Having the extra capacity doesn't hurt, and you can decide for yourself which you like better.

+1 right there

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

Welcome from Atlanta! My personal preference are glass carboys also, but the buckets work just fine for brewing. You might consider a 5 gallon glass carboy for extended aging of your ciders. There's plenty of people that say plastic is just fine for aging, but I opt for not taking the chance. Brewing is all subjective so just have fun and make what you like to drink!

 

[nukinfuts29]

They both work, it comes down to preference. For me, plastic ages just great and won't put me in the hospital if it slips from my hands, something falls on it, etc etc.

 

[Mr_Shinkai]

Great! Have a few more questions (I'm heading to the Brew Depot tomorrow -- It's the only day of the week I can get there). When brewing cider, is it better to have separate fermenting and bottling buckets/carboys? (the Mr. Beer Cider kit only has the fermenting keg, then you go straight to bottling). Also, anyone have opinions on using carbonation tablets, and when to use them if you only have a fermentation keg? My first batch of cider turned out flat. Any help would be appreciated! I'm also planning to pick up some sugars for 'backsweetening' (lactose, malto dextrin). I've heard some say you can use Splenda, but I don't trust that stuff... I've never stomached it well. Thanks!

 

[emjay]

Lactose and especially maltodextrin are for adding body. The former has a pretty low amount of sweetness, and the latter has pretty much none.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

Brew Depot is where I shop also. Really nice people up there. I ferment in a primary carboy and then rack to a secondary for bulk aging. I think it all depends on the recipe you are using and how quickly you want to drink it. I do prefer glass for anything that sits over a month.

Those 5 gallon buckets are fairly cheap and are convenient for bottling. I'd also invest in an auto-syphon if you have the budget. It makes racking a LOT easier.

Just a warning...don't go by the prices on the brew depot website. I don't think they've updated those in a while.

 

[Mr_Shinkai]

Lactose and especially maltodextrin are for adding body. The former has a pretty low amount of sweetness, and the latter has pretty much none.

What would you suggest?

 

[Mr_Shinkai]

Okay, that first batch of cider wasn't a complete bust. I opened another bottle today (one week later), and although it is fairly dry, the carbonation was better. I poured some in a glass with a bit of simple syrup made from turbinado sugar, and it's good stuff. Kind of proud now... kind of buzzing too.

 

[nukinfuts29]

age does booze good!

 

[emjay]

What would you suggest?

I'm a person who absolutely refuses to consume Aspartame based on what is scientifically KNOWN about it (e.g. it partially metabolizes to methanol, which metabolizes to formaldehyde... ). That sounds so extreme that most people unfamiliar with the topic would likely get the initial impression that it sounds like an uneducated and completely baseless myth/hoax/conspiracy theory, but it's actually 100% undisputed fact. The industry merely says that it's "too little" to be harmful.

And even though I take this stuff very seriously, I also happen to be of the (fairly informed and educated) opinion that Splenda is fine, and so it's what I use.

But you're entitled to think otherwise, and if you STILL really want to avoid Splenda, there are two other widely used unfermentable sweeteners (and they BOTH happen to be natural, if that's something that matters to you) - stevia and xylitol.

I prefer the latter, but you can try both and compare if you're unsure.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

I think that the simple syrup method is a great idea for back sweetening (in the glass post bottling)

I've also read on this forum that someone has frozen apple juice in ice trays and just dropped a cube into a glass and poured dry cider on top of it. You might also consider keeping a can of concentrate in the freezer and just scoop out a spoonful each time. This could also let you experiment with different fruit flavors.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

Oh and congrats on your first batch!

 

[MikeG]

Welcome from E. Roswell!

 

[nukinfuts29]

I like the ice cube idea

 

[Skagdog]

Yeah, the cubes are great. I've made a few batches of the apfelwein and accidentally made one too hot. People who like a little sweeter generally take two cubes, they melt slowly but release enough sugar without altering the flavor.

 

[Mr_Shinkai]

I have the Mr. Beer Cider kit and I have a couple of questions, as my second batch is approaching 2 weeks of fermentation.

The last batch was not sweet at all after bottling it. Is it a good idea to maybe just add another can of juice concentrate to the batch for priming, instead of using sugar, as the manual suggests?

Is it feasible to move the remaining contents of the first batch from the 1 liter PET bottles to 12 oz. glass bottles, or could this ruin the cider?

THANKS!

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

I'm sure there are people who have re-bottled brew before, but I personally would opt for the back-sweeten method (in the glass) before I rebottled something. (If I understand the question correctly)

The only real way to keep a sweet cider with carbonation is to use the pasteurization method in the stickies section of this forum. I don't think I'd do this in PET bottles though. I've never tried it, so I can't say that it works or not.

You can prime with any sort of fermentable sugars you'd like. Just keep in mind that it's not going to add any sweetness, unless you pasteurize. The yeast will continue to eat the sugars and produce CO2. (removing the sweetness from the bottle)

 

[emjay]

The last batch was not sweet at all after bottling it. Is it a good idea to maybe just add another can of juice concentrate to the batch for priming, instead of using sugar, as the manual suggests?

As long as the overall sugar added is equivalent, you can do it.

Is it a "good idea"? Well, it intensifies the apple flavor... so from that standpoint, sure. But you *seem* to be under the assumption that the concentrate will somehow make your cider sweeter. It won't. It'll be just as dry whether you use dextrose or AJ concentrate.

Is it feasible to move the remaining contents of the first batch from the 1 liter PET bottles to 12 oz. glass bottles, or could this ruin the cider?

Yes, it's feasible. It's not *too* different from racking from one fermentor to another. But it's usually not recommended.

However, if you plan on drinking the cider relatively soon (a few months), it shouldn't be a huge deal. You'll lose some carbonation unless you re-prime it, but if you do that, you need to let it go flat and degas it beforehand, unless you *want* to make some British IEDs.

Really though, I'd just leave as-is.

 

[emjay]

The only real way to keep a sweet cider with carbonation is to use the pasteurization method in the stickies section of this forum.

Not entirely correct. By far the easiest way is just to use an unfermentable sweetener, such as sucralose (Splenda), xylitol, or stevia (Truvia & PureVia).

And if one has a kegging setup or some other way to force carbonate, the yeast can be stabilized (with potassium metabisulfite and potassium sorbate) or simply filtered out, before carbonating that way.

IMO, pasteurizing merely for backsweetening purposes should only be done if you can't force carbonate, and (for whatever reason) you REALLY don't want to use anything *other than* sucrose, glucose, or some other fermentable sugar. Though most people - myself included - just opt to use a sweetener.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

emjay, you are correct. Pasteurization isn't the only way to retain sweetness in a carbonated cider. My reason for that statement is because I think the OP had originally mentioned that they didn't prefer artificial sweeteners. And from their question of moving from PET to glass bottles I assumed kegging and force carbonating wasn't an option.

Just wanted to clarify my statement.

 

[Mr_Shinkai]

Thank you! I was considering putting some in glass bottles, so that I could give a sample to my buddy who first discussed cider-making to me. Yes, I think pasteurization is the way for me, as Splenda and similar sweeteners have often caused odd side-effects in my own personal health. I don't have a sophisticated set-up yet... Just the Mr. Beer Cider kit I got for Christmas a month ago. I'm looking to upgrade soon, and use Mr. Beer as a secondary... but for now, I'm just getting started, and soaking up knowledge from you guys.

 

[Mr_Shinkai]

I'm sure there are people who have re-bottled brew before, but I personally would opt for the back-sweeten method (in the glass) before I rebottled something. (If I understand the question correctly)

The only real way to keep a sweet cider with carbonation is to use the pasteurization method in the stickies section of this forum. I don't think I'd do this in PET bottles though. I've never tried it, so I can't say that it works or not.

You can prime with any sort of fermentable sugars you'd like. Just keep in mind that it's not going to add any sweetness, unless you pasteurize. The yeast will continue to eat the sugars and produce CO2. (removing the sweetness from the bottle)

What is your opinion on use of campden tablets and carbonation tablets in cider? I've been reading the Mr. Beer section of the site for several days, but I haven't come across a lot of info on the cider kit, with the exception of making "Apfelwein". (that is certain to be one of my next batches). From what I understand, campden tablets will neutralize the yeast. The end result I'm looking for right now is a sweet drink with moderate carbonation. Like an apple Fanta with a kick.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with campden tabs. I make very simple hard ciders and a few weeks after they are bottled, I drink them (all)...I don't make them to age for extended periods of time.

My process: I add enough brown sugar to make sure my juice is above an OG of 1.050...I boils some raisins in water and squish them. (in theory for yeast nutrients and some tannins) These go through the strainer into the carboy and I rehydrate and pitch my yeast.

It's a real simple process...at around 2 weeks or SG of 1.020, I rack to secondary and let it sit for a month. A few days before bottling I take a reading and if it's the same on bottling day...I bottle with 4 oz of corn sugar boiled in water.

It's nothing special or award winning, but it tastes better than woodchuck and is WAY cheaper. It's my process and I enjoy drinking it. There are a myriad of ways (and ingredients) to get to an end product you are satisfied with, I just prefer a more economical route that tastes fine to me.

By no means am I saying this is the correct method or that my costco juice is better than orchard juice, I'm just saying it's not "substandard" as some have claimed. I think it tastes fine for it's intended purpose.

 

[Mr_Shinkai]

That's what I'm looking for; something I can enjoy and share with friends. I want to find a good base, where I can make slight changes to create various distinct flavors (cherry, blueberry, etc).

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

You had mentioned that you might try apfelwein on your next batch...keep in mind that people say it really needs to age a few months to mellow out. I've never made it, but I've heard people rave about it. I'm just not that patient

 

[Mr_Shinkai]

You had mentioned that you might try apfelwein on your next batch...keep in mind that people say it really needs to age a few months to mellow out. I've never made it, but I've heard people rave about it. I'm just not that patient

Well, my fiancé likes the look of the clear Mr. Beer fermenter, and she'd like to serve sangria from 4 of them at our wedding in July. Since they're on sale for $10 a pop at mrbeer.com, I have 3 more on the way. I'm going to get a 5 gallon glass carboy (or two) in a couple of weeks, and use the carboys as primaries, Mr. Beer as secondaries. I'll probably do a large-scale equipment overhaul after the wedding, but four 2.5 gallon batches is enough to keep me busy through the next few months. Maybe have a couple of cases of Apfelwein on hand for the wedding!

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

oh..congrats on getting married!

You might consider changing that around. Use the mr. beers for primaries and the glass for secondaries. People say that extended aging in plastic isn't a problem, but I don't take the chance. You can always brew 2.5 gallons in 2 kits and then mix them into a carboy for aging. Just a suggestion.

 

[Mr_Shinkai]

Good deal! I was thinking "2 weeks in a glass carboy, 2 weeks in Mr. Beer, then bottled in glass for a few months, until the wedding", but keeping it in the carboy for the longest duration be a better idea. Thank you very much. I'm still very new to this, and I really appreciate your time and advice. I'm going to try the recipe you posted. Any hard lemonade or hard teas recipes as well?

 

[Mr_Shinkai]

Well, I have moved my first batch of cider from the 1 liter pet bottles that originally come with Mr. Beer to 12 oz. glass bottles. I had to sweeten them again (too dry), and I will pasteurize some of them on Monday, the rest on Tuesday (I'm trying different sweeteners to backsweeten the batch). I found the stickies on pasteurization (they aren't as easy to fine when using the HBT phone app). I'll let you know how it goes, as I make room for the second batch. :fro: