Hefeweizen Color?

[lancers7x]

I read some threads on here awhile back about people having their Hefeweizens come out darker than expected.

I thought I remember a few people suggesting to only add half of the LME at the beginning of the boil and then the rest with about 15 minutes left in the boil to result in a lighter beer. Am I completely off base? Should I just add all the LME at the beginning as per the instructions? Can someone refresh my memory?

 

[azscoob]

Add about a third to half of your extract in the beginning of the boil, then add the balance with 10-15 minutes left in the boil. so you are correct in your thinking, the reason is the sugars caramelize a little over the boil resulting in a darker beer, less boiling time of your extract means a lighter color.

 

[lancers7x]

Add about a third to half of your extract in the beginning of the boil, then add the balance with 10-15 minutes left in the boil. so you are correct in your thinking, the reason is the sugars caramelize a little over the boil resulting in a darker beer, less boiling time of your extract means a lighter color.

Thanks so much for your help!

 

[JLem]

Caramelization does not occur in the boil under normal conditions. It requires temps above 212F and a low moisture environment. If you have a high output burner and/or let the extract settle to the bottom of the kettle you will get some (aka scorching). Late extract additions wil have more impact on hops utilization than on color.

 

[msarro]

Caramelization does not occur in the boil under normal conditions. It requires temps above 212F and a low moisture environment. If you have a high output burner and/or let the extract settle to the bottom of the kettle you will get some (aka scorching). Late extract additions wil have more impact on hops utilization than on color.

I would have to respectfully disagree from personal experience, plus experience and writings from brewers greater than I. Sugars caramelize when in high heat, so if you're using less than 4Gal or so of water it can happen pretty easily, especially if you maintain a vigorous boil.

My last brew was a wit, and it came out about 13SRM when it should have been about 6. This was using 2.5Gal of water for the brew, and stirring nonstop. Nothing was stuck to the bottom.

 

[mabrungard]

The Hefeweizen style is not hop-focused and if a lighter color is desired for the beer, reducing the duration of boiling is OK. I would perform at least 15 minutes of boiling to improve break formation, but you're better off with about 30 minutes as a minimum.

You would need to revise the water quantity since the shorter boil will reduce the wort concentration. A guess would be to reduce the water quantity by about 1/2 gal for a 5 gal batch to account for the reduction in boil off quantity.

The other consideration for getting a lighter color in an extract Hefe is to use the lightest color DME and not use LME. LME is typically darker.

 

[JLem]

I would have to respectfully disagree from personal experience, plus experience and writings from brewers greater than I. Sugars caramelize when in high heat, so if you're using less than 4Gal or so of water it can happen pretty easily, especially if you maintain a vigorous boil.

My last brew was a wit, and it came out about 13SRM when it should have been about 6. This was using 2.5Gal of water for the brew, and stirring nonstop. Nothing was stuck to the bottom.

No offense, but the only way you would get caramelization in the wort is if you are scorching the malt extract. Caramelization of maltose and most other sugars takes place at over 300°F and in the absence of water. Even with a partial boil, these conditions will not be met. Likewise, Maillard browning, another process often cited for darkening wort, occurs at temps above 300°F and low moisture.

It is my belief (I have no empirical data) that any darkening of wort via extract use is through scorching, darkened extract due to age, or non-existent.

If you have data or know of published work that shows otherwise, I would love to see it (I really would - I know lots of people say late extract additions reduce caralmelization and Maillaird browning, but everything I know about those processes, from a chemical point of view, do not make them candidates in a normal brew process)

 

[jonmohno]

I wonder if you boiled extract for like 3 hrs if it would darken, It wouldnt scorch if carefull but i bet it would darken even more. I could see the longer you boil the darker it would become.There is also suppose to be a extract twang asscoiated with boiling all of it at 60 min, but not here from experience.I would think the longer you boiled any sugar the darker it would become.

 

[Gunfighter04]

My Wit used 1 can of wheat LME and one Extra light LME. Just looking at the color as it came out of the can, I don't see how it can be anything but a darker color. I'll be glad when I make the jump to AG. My next Brewing is going to be using Just DME, I'm hoping it comes out lighter.

 

[jonmohno]

My Wit used 1 can of wheat LME and one Extra light LME. Just looking at the color as it came out of the can, I don't see how it can be anything but a darker color. I'll be glad when I make the jump to AG. My next Brewing is going to be using Just DME, I'm hoping it comes out lighter.

Pilsen and extra light is suppose to be the lightest and dry is said to be slightly lighter than the liquid extract. dont be fooled by the carmel color of lme,think of it dilluted in 5X's as much water.

 

[msarro]

No offense, but the only way you would get caramelization in the wort is if you are scorching the malt extract. Caramelization of maltose and most other sugars takes place at over 300°F and in the absence of water. Even with a partial boil, these conditions will not be met. Likewise, Maillard browning, another process often cited for darkening wort, occurs at temps above 300°F and low moisture.

It is my belief (I have no empirical data) that any darkening of wort via extract use is through scorching, darkened extract due to age, or non-existent.

If you have data or know of published work that shows otherwise, I would love to see it (I really would - I know lots of people say late extract additions reduce caralmelization and Maillaird browning, but everything I know about those processes, from a chemical point of view, do not make them candidates in a normal brew process)

None taken! So far it's based off of feedback here as well some of my brewing books (for instance Extreme Brewing and the Papazian brew bible). Given that boiling water occurs at 212 degrees is it completely impossible that water could exceed 300? I'm honestly not sure what a range is capable of, and obviously that would vary. As for scorching, in my situation its unlikely. Usually either SWMBO or myself is stirring, with the goal of nonstop stirring (first brew had a caramelized mess on the bottom, so we figured over stirring is better than not enough).

I do know that aged malt can definitely affect color, and god knows how old my breiss wheat malt was when I bought it.

 

[JLem]

None taken! So far it's based off of feedback here as well some of my brewing books (for instance Extreme Brewing and the Papazian brew bible). Given that boiling water occurs at 212 degrees is it completely impossible that water could exceed 300? I'm honestly not sure what a range is capable of, and obviously that would vary. As for scorching, in my situation its unlikely. Usually either SWMBO or myself is stirring, with the goal of nonstop stirring (first brew had a caramelized mess on the bottom, so we figured over stirring is better than not enough).

I do know that aged malt can definitely affect color, and god knows how old my breiss wheat malt was when I bought it.

Doing a quick google search, it looks like perhaps Maillard reactions (non-enzymatic browning) may occur to some degree during wort boiling - it has always been my understanding that these reactions (which give seared meat and toasted bread their color and flavor) required high temps and low moisture, but there is some info out there that suggests these reactions can occur under various conditions. I'm not sure how big an impact these reactions have on final beer color. I think I will try a few trials of my own to see the effects of boiling extract on beer color - should be relatively simple - make up some small batches of wort with some extract added at various times and see if the color changes.

 

[LakewoodBrew]

I believe an experiment is in order.

Take 1 lb DME, disolve in 1 gal. boiling water, take a 2 oz sample every 15 minutes while maintaining a rolling or vigorous boil for 90 minutes, compare the samples side by side in similarly shaped and sized vessels (a bunch of test tubes would work well).

Any takers?

 

[JLem]

I believe an experiment is in order.

Take 1 lb DME, disolve in 1 gal. boiling water, take a 2 oz sample every 15 minutes while maintaining a rolling or vigorous boil for 90 minutes, compare the samples side by side in similarly shaped and sized vessels (a bunch of test tubes would work well).

Any takers?

I'm game, but what we really need is a comparison of final wort color between brews made with extract up front and extract added at the end. As you boil, you will be concentrating the wort, so color is going to darken from start to finish no matter what, so, in your method, the 90 minute sample should be expected to be quite different from the 0 minute sample (if your evaporation rate is 15%, you should expect the color to darken by 15%, just like you expect the gravity to increase by 15%)

We need different worts, boiled down to the same volume and gravity, with extract added at various times. All that really matters is a final comparison.