heating element to maintain HLT temp

[Finchy]

Greetings all,
I have a 10 (moving up to 15) gallon HERMS setup that is working quite well. Moving up to 15 gallons, I pretty much empty the HLT when I mash-in and have to refill / crank the gas burner under it to get back up to my desired temp before starting the HERMS pump. That was taking to long so I purchased a Bayou Classic KAB4 (very bad a$$) burner which does a great job getting me there. Problem is that it is so hot even at it's lowest that I am constantly playing with it during the entire mash to keep the temp steady. I'd prefer to sit back and relax during the 60-90 minute mash.
What I want to do is add a 110v element to the HLT with a temp controller so that when I reach my desired HLT temp, I can shut off the gas and maintain my temp via the element. Has anyone else done this? Is this a decent idea? I am capable in many areas, however, electric is not my strong point. Also, I'm not big on electrocuting myself! I have a temp controller with 110v outlet already. I'm hoping someone could recommend an element and basic wiring instructions to make this happen. Additionally, I circulate the HLT water with a drill motor and mixer. Any ideas on how to attach the temp probe? I've read tons of threads here but was hoping for specific advice on my plans.
I would be grateful for any thoughts...

 

[grathan]

I just bought a 30psi Kab4 as well. Badass is right, it melts my polyester tee shirts when I peek in the kettle! It also melts all the plastic stuff around the HLT like sight-glass, ball valve handles, and temp probe wire. So I've been skeptical about using the burner since I've installed a 5500w element because I am afraid it will melt the wires.

Temp probes use low voltage so they won't electrocute you. The 110v element can though, so you have to make sure you use a gfci outlet or breaker on the element.

I would suggest using 220v if it is available and skip the burner altogether. I think it takes me like 5 minutes to go from room temp to mash temp in 5 gallon batches with a single 5500w element.


Your temp controller will have an amperage rating on it. You'll want to make sure it is enough for the element you get.
watts/volts= amps so a 1100w element uses 10 amps.


wiring is pretty simple. Elements have 2 connections.

 

[Finchy]

Thanks for the reply Grathan. I hadn't thought about heat melting element wires. Good call on that!

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Definitely my #1 concern would be the heat from the burner, so why not look into a heat stick (search for the term, lots of people have built them). In short - it's a drop-in heater element, so you could use gas to get up to temp, then drop that bad boy in and maintain temps with the electric setup. Then you don't have any permenant wiring affixed to your HLT.

 

[Finchy]

Bad News Brewery, I will look into that. Another good idea. That's why I love this site! I'll look for build instructions before I post any repetitive questions on this thread. Cheers!

 

[mikescooling]

I was using the same burner at one point. You should see how fast 5500w heats 20 gallons of water. It will bring it to temp, turn on a light telling you that it is, and it will hold it there. Not many people go back to gas, from electric.

 

[rekoob]

I don't use electric but have read that the normal outlets in the house won't handle the load from the heating elements. Is that the case?
I have three burners and also have thought about a heat stick but if it will stress my electrical ckts it's a no go.
Anyone having problems with electrical needs?
Have you run dedicated ckts?

 

[Finchy]

I have a 50 amp breaker feeding my (detached) brewhouse and an upgrade is a major project. I have 2 refrigerators and an additional temp controlled refrigerator for fermenting on the panel. Do i have enough amperage left to run a large 240w element or stick with a 120w heat stick? I'm already wired up with a 20a gfci outlet where the HLT goes, but I could run a 240w line if it would work...

 

[mikescooling]

5500 pulls 22-23amps, and that is with the PID full on. I wonder if you could use manual mode to lessen the amp draw? Or use a smaller element.

 

[grathan]

Its not like you couldn't unplug the fridge if you had to for 20 minutes while the hlt heats. And even still you should have enough room for a single 5500w element. The 20 amp gfci is a perfect candidate for a heat stick.

20 amp x 110 volts = 2200 watts max on that plug. Heat sticks on 110 are usually 1500 watts or less. Ideally you would get one your temp controller can handle unless your looking to upgrade the controller.

 

[ChuckO]

5500 pulls 22-23amps, and that is with the PID full on. I wonder if you could use manual mode to lessen the amp draw? Or use a smaller element.

Manual mode won't lessen the amp draw. It will only turn the full load on and off. Only reducing the element wattage will reduce the current flow.

 

[Sideways]

The heat stick with a temp controller is a good option. I used to do that and it worked great. If you aren't familiar with building electrical circuits you could buy something like this

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=44

It doesn't have PID control though which is a bummer

 

[Finchy]

My temp controller is rated at 10amps and I'm thinking a heat stick would be safest since I'll need to use the high pressure burner to get quick temperature rise... With what I have going on, what size element should I use? I'm thinking 1000w would be safe and effective? For now I just want to try the electric for maintaining HLT Temps. From the sounds of what you guys are saying, I'll probably include more electric or switch all together once I try it. Lol

Also, I'm looking for ideas on the best way to mount the the temp probe. My temp controller is a "Docooler 10A 110V Digital Temperature Controller"

Again, thanks for all the great advice!

 

[Minbari]

Manual mode won't lessen the amp draw. It will only turn the full load on and off. Only reducing the element wattage will reduce the current flow.

it will not reduce instantaneous current, but if you are running a PWM controller at 50%, the power under the curve is 50%, which is less current being drawn over time.

I know that sounds like a bunch of technobabble, but the wire and breaker are going to only heat up based on avg current and not instantaneous.

****edit: to give you idea, my last job we had a product that use (2) 18ga wires for power wires. the product drew 20-22amp of current at 12-14VDC. it had a 10% duty cycle and the wires never even got warm.

all that said, if your wire/breaker/SSR/receptacle are not rated for 100% duty cycle, I think you are looking at a potential fire or alot of tripped breakers. Just not a good idea.

My temp controller is rated at 10amps and I'm thinking a heat stick would be safest since I'll need to use the high pressure burner to get quick temperature rise... With what I have going on, what size element should I use? I'm thinking 1000w would be safe and effective? For now I just want to try the electric for maintaining HLT Temps. From the sounds of what you guys are saying, I'll probably include more electric or switch all together once I try it. Lol

Also, I'm looking for ideas on the best way to mount the the temp probe. My temp controller is a "Docooler 10A 110V Digital Temperature Controller"

Again, thanks for all the great advice!

no reason you cant use the temp controller to switch a high current SSR either. assuming you have a 15A outlet to plug into, you could get away with a single 120v 1500 watt element.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

5500 pulls 22-23amps, and that is with the PID full on. I wonder if you could use manual mode to lessen the amp draw? Or use a smaller element.

The PID typically does on or off, so you're pulling 100% or 0% power, and it just modulates the time that the element is on. Some people run PWM or SSVRs that actually adjust the power draw. So... if you run a typical setup with a PID connected to an SSR and put it at 50% in manual, you're pulling 22-23 amps for half the time - is it enough to ignite your wiring or trip your breaker - who knows... but not worth the risk.