Having a go at unpasteurized cider

[kgressler]

I just began brewing my first batch of hard cider made with "Sams Club" cider a few days before Thanksgiving using EC1118 following the "Everyday Simplest Dry Cider" by Phug.
After spending way too many hours reading the forum here It seems like EC1118 and crappy cider from the store may not give me the best results.

So Ive been on the look out for some homemade cider straight from a orchard for the last week. After a few days and many orchards either not having any because of a fire or two others who have preservatives in their cider. I finally ran across a very small orchard named Dolls Orchard thats about 45 minutes away.
No preservatives and not even pasteurized for $5/gallon. After chatting a bit with the guy he said if i needed more he would cut the price another .50/gallon if i brought my own vessel next time. This is a mixed cider with Jonathan, golden delicious and i believe winesap.

No extra sugars at all just letting the juice to the work. The OG is 1.056 with what a appears to be around a 7% ABV.
After reading CvilleKevin's thread I decided this time I will be using Nottingham Ale as my yeast and use his method of cold crashing around 1.006 and 1.012. It make a lot of sense to cold crash at a certain sweetness instead of back sweetening like I will be doing with my first back with EC1118.
Had to run by a homebrew store since I only have one primary. They didnt have plastic carboys so I had to use glass.
Has me slightly concerned because I am a bit of a bull in a china shop at times but I just have to take extra care.

My hope is this batch might be drinkable much sooner than the EC1118 batch.
Really only thing I need is some bottles. I plan on bottling these I guess it depends on if the cold crashing works or not if I pasteurize.

I will update this as I go.

 

[kgressler]

Not sure why the photos are sideways. Sorry about that I tried fixing it but some reason I cant figure it out.

 

[MarkKF]

Grab a plastic milk crate and put your carbon in it. It's a lot easier to move and less chance of bumping it or knocking it over.

 

[WVMJ]

Sounds like reasonable mix of apples for Illinois, keep searching and you might find someone growing some cider apples specifically for cider. Are they any ciderworks in your area? The one near us sells a cidermakers blend of whatever they are pressing from real cidermaking apples. Make sure you take your new fried a bottle to try next time you go to chat them up. Sometimes the orchards will have just a few of the older kinds of trees that they planted for the heck of it so you might ask them what are all the kinds of apples they grow. WVMJ

 

[kgressler]

Mark thanks for great idea. Let me see if I can track one down. Not gonna lie I was a bit nervous carrying that thing down stairs.

 

[kgressler]

WVMJ good idea bringing a few bottles for the guy at the cider orchard. Especially since I will have over 100 bottles in a few months.

 

[kgressler]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1417975309.672523.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1417975323.880723.jpg

Around 20 hours in and the action seems to have begun.
Temp as you can see is about 58-60. I have this sitting down in a basement bathroom to keep temps stable throughout the fermentation.

 

[kgressler]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1418165457.666970.jpg

Krausen really starting to pick up
after 72 hours.
Nice and steady temperature 62-64.

 

[MindenMan]

I'm curious, why are you showing the red, white and green section of the hydrometer. Is that the scale you are using? Congrats on the fresh cider.

 

[kgressler]

MindenMan

The hydrometer has 5-6 different colors I guess those three are the colors that are between the 5 and 7 percent reading.
Honestly I've never used a hydrometer before so I just spun it inside test jar and read where it stopped.
I'm getting impatient that's for sure. Although my first batch of store bought cider is getting close if I can get some bottles I may be able to bottles these this weekend.

 

[Fuzzymittenbrewing]

Did you use campden on the unpasturized cider before pitching?

 

[MarkKF]

Did you use campden on the unpasturized cider before pitching?

Yes, then wait 24 hrs to pitch the yeast.

 

[GrogNerd]

my cider tale is similar. started with Walmart juice + 1118 and my latest batch is orchard cider (though pasteurized) + Notty

today I will be racking back into jugs for cold crashing and after that, jacking half

 

[ericbw]

They're practically giving that cider away. I paid $6 this year and was happy. Two years ago it was $8 because it was a bad year for apples.

Definitely share it so they like you!

 

[kgressler]

Did you use campden on the unpasturized cider before pitching?

I actually did not. Just cider and Notty. K.I.S.S.

 

[kgressler]

my cider tale is similar. started with Walmart juice + 1118 and my latest batch is orchard cider (though pasteurized) + Notty

today I will be racking back into jugs for cold crashing and after that, jacking half

How did your store bought cider turnout?

Im sitting about 18 days in my primary right now on the Sams Club Cider and ec1118. I think its winding down but Its in a bucket fermenter so I cant see it. Think I may take a reading this weekend because There has been very limited airlock activity the last 2 days.

 

[kgressler]

They're practically giving that cider away. I paid $6 this year and was happy. Two years ago it was $8 because it was a bad year for apples.

Definitely share it so they like you!

Yeah I saw on their bookface page they had it for 6.50 a gallon earlier in the year but I guess with the season winding down they are trying to get rid of it before it go bad. He said they may have cider into mid Jan this year. So if this turns out I may make one more run for another batch.

 

[GrogNerd]

How did your store bought cider turnout?

Im sitting about 18 days in my primary right now on the Sams Club Cider and ec1118. I think its winding down but Its in a bucket fermenter so I cant see it. Think I may take a reading this weekend because There has been very limited airlock activity the last 2 days.

it was only OK and I ended up jacking it. I originally made 2½ gallons of it & after jacking a little less than a gallon remained.

after aging for a year, it was nice and smooth and I wish I had made more of it. didn't do so well in Cider & Mead competition. the winner was a 10-year-old mead. kind of hard to compete against that.

I made another similar batch, again only 2½ gallons, jacked again. that's been aging 6 months now and is coming along nicely.

this latest batch I switched to the orchard cider and Notty. I sampled some the other day and LOVE the way it's tasting. still has a little apple flavor to it. made 5 gallons this time

 

[kgressler]

it was only OK and I ended up jacking it. I originally made 2½ gallons of it & after jacking a little less than a gallon remained.

after aging for a year, it was nice and smooth and I wish I had made more of it. didn't do so well in Cider & Mead competition. the winner was a 10-year-old mead. kind of hard to compete against that.

I made another similar batch, again only 2½ gallons, jacked again. that's been aging 6 months now and is coming along nicely.

this latest batch I switched to the orchard cider and Notty. I sampled some the other day and LOVE the way it's tasting. still has a little apple flavor to it. made 5 gallons this time

So Im guessing the harshness is why you're ageing the store bought cider?

How are you brewing this fresh cider?

I was hoping I would have something drinkable in a few weeks but 6 Months is gonna be tough. lol

 

[GrogNerd]

So Im guessing the harshness is why you're ageing the store bought cider?

How are you brewing this fresh cider?

I was hoping I would have something drinkable in a few weeks but 6 Months is gonna be tough. lol

6 months is plenty of time for drinkable cider. a couple weeks in primary is enough, but I left mine a couple more in secondary in the fridge and it was ready to drink.

but then I jacked it by freeze concentration, which is where it got a little harsh for a while. jacking it ups the alcohol content along with the time needed to condition and mellow out

 

[kgressler]

It's been 8 days and I was slightly worried I might leave it in the primary too long and it ferment past 1.006-1.010 area I'm looking for so I took a sample and took a gravity ready. Wasn't even clost still at 1.030.. After 8 days it dropped from 1.056 so if it dropped .026 in a week can I expect a similar drop the second week? I really only want it to drop another .020 so my thinking is by Friday it should be close and be ready to cold crash.

 

[CvilleKevin]

After 8 days it dropped from 1.056 so if it dropped .026 in a week can I expect a similar drop the second week?

As long as temps stay consistent, yes. It will probably slow down a little bit as it gets closer to 1.010, but you're on track to hit 1.010 sometime next weekend.

 

[kgressler]

As long as temps stay consistent, yes. It will probably slow down a little bit as it gets closer to 1.010, but you're on track to hit 1.010 sometime next weekend.

Thanks CvilleKevin. I didn't want to clog up your thread too much so thanks a lot for replying here!

 

[MarkKF]

What's the plan to stop it when the desired S. G. is reached? Cold crash? Then u gonna treat it or keep it cold so it won't restart?

 

[kgressler]

What's the plan to stop it when the desired S. G. is reached? Cold crash? Then u gonna treat it or keep it cold so it won't restart?

The plan is to cold crash for a few days. After talking with CvilleKevin he thought my best bet at this point would be to cold crash and the bottle right after.
He said I could leave them out in hopes they carb up some then throw them in a fridge. Since I have plenty of fridge this was kind of my plan to begin with since I do plan on enjoying some of them. My hope is this turns out pretty good since the orchard I got these said they should have juice for a few more weeks I would go grab another 5-6 gallons before they are all gone.

 

[kgressler]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1418917024.025659.jpg
Figured I would see how close I was. Appears it fell and 10 points in 4 days. So Sunday or Monday (ish) looks to be the day I will be racking and cold crashing.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1418917373.788320.jpg
Still very very cloudy as you can see here on the right compared to my other cider on the left made with store juice and ec1118.
When I tasted this on Saturday it had a hint of butter smell but that was all gone this morning. The smell was nice and the taste was fantastic. Still pretty sweet but I am quite excited for this batch.
How much clarity might I expect from 3-5 days of cold crash?

 

[CvilleKevin]

How much clarity might I expect from 3-5 days of cold crash?

Depends on the juice, but usually 3-5 days of cold crashing will get it as least as clear as the glass on the left. Probably more clear.

Every once in a while, I will get a batch that doesnt clear well in the crash. Usually that's because the apples have a high pectin content to start with or because they were picked before they were ripe.

 

[GrogNerd]

wouldn't there be a difference in clearing when using juice as opposed to cider because juice is filtered, cider is not?

 

[MarkKF]

wouldn't there be a difference in clearing when using juice as opposed to cider because juice is filtered, cider is not?

Not for me. My cider made with straight from the farm pressed unfiltered, unpasteurized juice still finishes crystal clear as long as I don't screw up.

The yeast seems to have more to do with how clear it gets, IMHO. :rockin:

 

[GrogNerd]

Not for me. My cider made with straight from the farm pressed unfiltered, unpasteurized juice still finishes crystal clear as long as I don't screw up.

The yeast seems to have more to do with how clear it gets, IMHO. :rockin:

so, the OP & I both used farm-pressed, unfiltered cider (his un-, mine pasteurized) along with Nottingham and will be cold-crashing

 

[kgressler]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1419255119.190458.jpg
Was a rough Sunday for me so I didn't have a chance to check it till this morning. Checked the gravity and FG was1.008. Right in the general area I was looking.
So I transfer it to a 5 gallon carboy and put it in the fridge.
With it being Christmas this week I may not be able to bottle this till Saturday so a 6 day crash is likely.

 

[kgressler]

Welp had the day off so I decided to go ahead and bottle this up.
Took a gravity reading. It was still 1.008-1.010 still about the same as when I cold crashed it but the cider was 40ish degrees so I believe that does change the number. My hydrometer came with a paper that said at 50 degrees to subtract -.002.
I im guessing it's somewhere around 1.006 or so.

I'm actually heading back out to the orchard hear in a few to grab 6 more gallons before Xmas I wanted to try a cyser this time. I'm gonna run and grab some honey and get this set up before all the festivities begin today.

 

[kgressler]

Starting my 3rd batch of cider and this is my second batch of unpasteurized cider.
5.5 gallons from the same orchard and consists of Jonathan, Golden delicious, and Fuji.

This batch of cider had a sg of 1.050 at 48 degrees.
I added 2.5 lbs of clover honey and this raised the sg to 1.62 again cider to was slightly cooler still.
Pitched Nottingham in three parts letting it dissolve before pitching the rest.
Since this is 1/2 gallon more cider then last time I put on a blow off tube just in case.View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1419459496.640557.jpg

 

[kgressler]

Well 11 days have gone by and I figured I would check on the progress. Since my last batch was finished in16 days I figured I would be pretty close. Well I couldn't be more wrong. Gravity was 1.042. Guess with the temperatures staying under 60 most of the time and really closer to 56 it's really slowed down the fermentation. Not a big deal since I'm not in any rush. I did give it a taste and it is obviously very sweet and the butter smell is there just like the last batch which had me worried last time but it went away after a few days.
Guess I'll check it again in a week to see where it's at.

 

[kgressler]

Another week and still pretty far off. 1.032 if this keeps up it'll be another 2 weeks. Very interesting my last batch finished at day 16 this is day 19 and it's nowhere close to being done.

SG on first batch was 1.056 this new batch was 1.62. I added 1.5lbs of raspberries on day 12 to the first batch. I added 2.5lbs of honey to second batch and the temperature is close to the same58-60 on the first batch 56-58 on the second.

I guess the addition of honey is the reason but even when adding that the SG was only .006 higher.

It's making wonder if perhaps the honey didn't get mixed at the start as well as I thought.
Looking at my notes the SG before honey was 1.050 then after adding the honey it raised it to 1.062. Does this sound right or would it raise it more?

 

[MarkKF]

Get a cheap heating pad or reptile heater and put it under or next to the carboy. If it bumps it up to 60 Deg. it will make all the difference.

 

[kgressler]

I don't really care about the extra time. From everything I've read the slower the better anyway.
I was just more curious about why its taken longer not so much a fix.
Would 2 degrees make that big a difference? Does adding 2.5 lbs of honey only raise the SG .012?

 

[MarkKF]

I don't really care about the extra time. From everything I've read the slower the better anyway.

Slow is ok but stopped is bad. In my limited experience things can just stop below 60 deg. with some yeast.

I was just more curious about why its taken longer not so much a fix.
Would 2 degrees make that big a difference? Does adding 2.5 lbs of honey only raise the SG .012?

Perhaps! 3 cups of sugar raised my
S.G. only .015 in 5 gal.

 

[ericbw]

I don't really care about the extra time. From everything I've read the slower the better anyway.
I was just more curious about why its taken longer not so much a fix.
Would 2 degrees make that big a difference? Does adding 2.5 lbs of honey only raise the SG .012?

Going lower than 60 could be a problem. The yeast could drop out or take a break and wake back up at some point. I would keep it above 60.

 

[BGBC]

Did you use campden on the unpasturized cider before pitching?

I actually did not. Just cider and Notty. K.I.S.S.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but by not using campden on the unpasteurized cider, there could be various wild yeasts and/or bacteria still in the cider. A healthy pitch of brewer's or wine yeast will beat out any bugs for the available sugars in the short term, but they could contribute some unintended flavors in the long term.