Has anyone tried this quick-lagering method?

[VladOfTrub]

It is the nature of the beast. Lager and Pils produced by using the English method is best when it goes from boiler to belly in six weeks or so. The method does not produce wort with the backbone to support yeast throughout a traditional lagering cycle. The method cannot produce certain styles of beer. The experiment being done on lager produced by the English method proves one thing. Lager cannot age properly when brewed using the English method.

 

[jmadway]

It is the nature of the beast. Lager and Pils produced by using the English method is best when it goes from boiler to belly in six weeks or so. The method does not produce wort with the backbone to support yeast throughout a traditional lagering cycle. The method cannot produce certain styles of beer. The experiment being done on lager produced by the English method proves one thing. Lager cannot age properly when brewed using the English method.

What styles of beer can it not produce?

 

[Schmoltsbeer]

I am just curious, what is 'the english method'? I think I got lost on that post, Vlad, though it may be the many drinks I've had already. On the other hand, to validate Brulosopher's method a little bit; I have only brewed 5 lagers with this method. However, it has worked perfectly. I have brewed 2 pale lagers, a bockbier, a dunkel and a malt-liquor. They pretty much all come out the way they should, though I will say after a little over a week at lager temps the dunked improved with another week in the keg. I may be an oddball but I enjoy tasting the changes the beers go through, if they change while I'm drinking them. The dunkel is the most noticeable flavor change, though it wasn't off-putting. The specific flavor change was from a very chocolate start to a more mild chocolate flavor, as well as the whole beer is just more crisp. I bottled the strongbiers (bock, and malt-liquor) and both were fine after two weeks of carbonating. Also, I have used decoction and infusion methods for developing the wort. I believe decoction is the most flavorful, for maltier beers anyway, but that may be subjective and off the point.

Lastly, I have a decocted dopplebock that is just ramping down using Wyeast 2206 (Bavarian Lager) which was the yeast cake from the previous dunkel. I haven't decided weather to bottle or keg this beer yet. Either way, I am going to ramp down over the next 2-3 days, and lager through next week which will be a total of 4 weeks from brewing. I'm sure it will come out just fine, though it may benefit from a week or two in the keg if that's the route I go. It will be enjoyed regardless, and the process will begin again! Cheers!

 

[Brulosopher]

Lager produced with the English method?

 

[wobdee]

I think when Vlad talks about the English method he's talking about a single infusion mash. I know he's a big fan of decoction and has been doing it since 1987.

 

[oogaboogachiefwalkingdeer]

Brulosipher's method works for me.

 

[Braufessor]

I have a Helles I brewed recently with this strategy. Used German Lager X yeast. It was kegged, carbed, clear and very good at 21 days.

 

[Brettomomyces]

Here's the Czech pilsner I made on 01/26/15, so 4 weeks total. It's been crystal clear for the last 5 days.

I feel as if it will benefit from another couple weeks aging, but as far as the yeast character it's perfectly clean.

Fixed the stupid iPhone sideways posting

 

[Disintegr8or]

The last lager I made, I used his method.
Came out swimmingly. Getting ready to try it again here in the coming weeks.

 

[kpr121]

This thread has me changing my mind on my next brew…. I’ve always really liked lagers when I’ve made them but that multi-month timeframe just dissuaded me from brewing them.

I think Im going to make a marzen or Vienna lager, and try to have it done in a month.

One thing I didn’t notice on this thread, for everyone who is manually adjusting your fermentation temperature every day, take a look at STC-1000+. Can set your own ferment profile and then it’s a matter of pushing the button once and letting it go through the whole process. Of course you should also verify that the yeast is following the schedule by periodically checking gravity and/or visible ferment signals (krausen). But it really is awesome knowing that the controller will put the beer through the main ferment, ramp up for cleanup/diacetyl rest, then ramp down to cold crash all by itself.

 

[Brettomomyces]

An STC 1000+ is probably in my future, I use a standard STC 1000 now and do everything manually. I don't mind too much, I like checking in on everything, but that would be a lot easier and simpler.

I brewed what is now a Helles (was supposed to be a pils, came out a touch sweet) at the same time as the czech pils, I'll have to post a pic of that guy later, it's just as pretty.

 

[klaggy]

I am finishing up drinking the last of a second keg... On the same process.. Absolutely awesome time frame for a very tastey Marzen... Although I'll admit it was a triple decoction... And a very long brew day But this last iteration was the best.. Not the clearest due to not using gelatin this time but certainly the tastiest!

 

[Brulosopher]

Hey all, I wanted to let you know I just updated the quick lager method article on my site, some may find it helpful.

http://brulosophy.com/lager-method

Cheers!

 

[phyllobeddo]

Hey all, I wanted to let you know I just updated the quick lager method article on my site, some may find it helpful.

http://brulosophy.com/lager-method

Cheers!

Thanks for the update! I still have this method on my list to try with my next lager. The last lager I made was probably in 2006. I lagered for 11 weeks before bottling.

I will just need to find the time to get this one done. I have lots of ales waiting to be made right now.

 

[Brettomomyces]

Here's the German pils I just made, also from 01/26/15. I will say the flavor dramatically improves after aging in the keg for two weeks, but was able to finish fermentation in 11 days, crashed for a couple, and then cold aged. I don't use gelatin so it's not so perfectly clear

 

[Braufessor]

30 day old Helles..... been drinking it for about a week and a half now. It is as good as (or better than) any helles I have brewed with more traditional schedules. I have a "second runnings" black lager going on the same schedule right now. I am thinking I will try a Dortmunder this weekend.

 

[wobdee]

I find using this method works fine and makes my lagers ready to drink after 2 weeks in the keg but waiting a couple more weeks they are much better. I try and wait 5-6 weeks lagering before tapping if I can.

 

[djonesax]

So... I have been planning to use this method for a Marzen I have in the fermentation chamber now.

This was my plan.
1. Ferment for about a week at 55 (should have gone lower I know but too late now)
2. D-rest at 68 for a week or until finished
3. Gradually lower the temps to 32 and hold for a week.
4. Lager in Kegs so I can sample it

I am trying to understand the specific difference in this technique versus a traditional method. Many of the articles I have read on lagering also incorporate a D-rest so that that's not really different.

Is the main difference between this and a traditional lager method the just that its suggest cutting out unnecessary time with specific timing of the D-rest when the yeast are mostly done but still very active? While also swapping the order kegging and lagering?

fermenting 2 weeks, d-rest, lagering, kegging?
vs
fermenting 1 week, d-rest, kegging, lagering?

Most people have reported that 2 more weeks in the keg and their beers taste much better but those are likely the two weeks you might have lagered it before kegging. Help my head stop spinning

Thanks,

David

 

[wobdee]

So... I have been planning to use this method for a Marzen I have in the fermentation chamber now.

This was my plan.
1. Ferment for about a week at 55 (should have gone lower I know but too late now)
2. D-rest at 68 for a week or until finished
3. Gradually lower the temps to 32 and hold for a week.
4. Lager in Kegs so I can sample it

I am trying to understand the specific difference in this technique versus a traditional method. Many of the articles I have read on lagering also incorporate a D-rest so that that's not really different.

Is the main difference between this and a traditional lager method the just that its suggest cutting out unnecessary time with specific timing of the D-rest when the yeast are mostly done but still very active? While also swapping the order kegging and lagering?

fermenting 2 weeks, d-rest, lagering, kegging?
vs
fermenting 1 week, d-rest, kegging, lagering?

Most people have reported that 2 more weeks in the keg and their beers taste much better but those are likely the two weeks you might have lagered it before kegging. Help my head stop spinning

Thanks,

David

If your going to keg it's easier to just lager in the keg. Do your D rest, cold crash to lager temp for a few days then rack to your keg.

 

[djonesax]

If your going to keg it's easier to just lager in the keg. Do your D rest, cold crash to lager temp for a few days then rack to your keg.

Yeah, thats my plan and is coincidentally the same as what I do for ales but the primary temps are obviously higher.

 

[jmadway]

I'd say that this technique is based on the belief that the main reason that lagers are traditionally lagered for so long is to clear them. But clearing the beer on a homebrew scale can much more quickly be achieved by fining with gelatin. Thus rendering lagering for a month or more unnecessary. So, if you follow a strict temp controlled fermentation schedule and fine with gelatin, you can produce a great tasting lager in a fraction of the time that is traditionally recommended.

 

[djonesax]

I'd say that this technique is based on the belief that the main reason that lagers are traditionally lagered for so long is to clear them. But clearing the beer on a homebrew scale can much more quickly be achieved by fining with gelatin. Thus rendering lagering for a month or more unnecessary. So, if you follow a strict temp controlled fermentation schedule and fine with gelatin, you can produce a great tasting lager in a fraction of the time that is traditionally recommended.

Thanks that makes sense. I had thought the traditional lagering process was just for aging.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

I'd say that this technique is based on the belief that the main reason that lagers are traditionally lagered for so long is to clear them. But clearing the beer on a homebrew scale can much more quickly be achieved by fining with gelatin. Thus rendering lagering for a month or more unnecessary. So, if you follow a strict temp controlled fermentation schedule and fine with gelatin, you can produce a great tasting lager in a fraction of the time that is traditionally recommended.

Perhaps, if you are only interested in clear beer. But my understanding and experience is that there are numerous chemical reactions that take place with lower temperatures that create that unique lager taste. Otherwise, why bother lagering at all? Might as well make an ale.

 

[jmadway]

Perhaps, if you are only interested in clear beer. But my understanding and experience is that there are numerous chemical reactions that take place with lower temperatures that create that unique lager taste. Otherwise, why bother lagering at all? Might as well make an ale.

My understanding of this lagering technique is that if you use an appropriately large yeast pitch, a controlled fermentation which includes lager ferm temp through 50% of attenuation followed by a ramped high temp D-rest to finish out the ferment, you will have a really good lager in a much shorter amount of time than is traditionally recommended. Longer term lagering may enhance subtleties in the beer, but this will happen in the keg over time as you drink it. And if you fine with gelatin, this achieves a major goal of lagering without the time required. This is my understanding and my experience.

 

[chisena]

Why hurry?

 

[Schmoltsbeer]

I hurry because my fermentation space is small and my patience is thin. Can't speak for anyone else.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

My understanding of this lagering technique is that if you use an appropriately large yeast pitch, a controlled fermentation which includes lager ferm temp through 50% of attenuation followed by a ramped high temp D-rest to finish out the ferment, you will have a really good lager in a much shorter amount of time than is traditionally recommended. Longer term lagering may enhance subtleties in the beer, but this will happen in the keg over time as you drink it. And if you fine with gelatin, this achieves a major goal of lagering without the time required. This is my understanding and my experience.

I agree that a large yeast pitch is a key requirement for good lagers, the controlled lager fermentation is important, and a ramped D-rest may or may not be necessary with pilsner malt, but I always do one in any case, although I wait until about 3/4 of the way through fermentation. I always fine my beer with Irish Moss, and this also clarifies the lager in a very short time, allowing me to start drinking it in about a month. However, I do find that the lager improves substantially in taste during the second month, especially with pilsners. After that the improvement is hardly noticeable.

 

[djonesax]

So I have been fermenting at 54-55 for a week now and have hit 1.024 from 1.056. I tasted the beer and after a week its good, malty, clean, and no estery flavor. Its an Oktoberfest by the way. I went ahead and set the temp to 68 and the plan is to check it in 10 days after I get back from a trip. I havent done lagers in years because I didn't have a fermentation chamber and had to use the keezer. Now that I have a fermentation chamber I don't want to occupy it for as long as lagers typically take so I cant wait to see how this beer turns out.

David

 

[g-star]

...a ramped D-rest may or may not be necessary with pilsner malt...

Why would the type of malt influence the need for a diacetyl rest?

 

[douglasbarbin]

Why would the type of malt influence the need for a diacetyl rest?

I think he was confusing diacetyl with DMS.