Has anyone ever used the Orange Home depot buckets???

[CheapBrewer]

Hi, I've been reading this thread with some interest. I am a retired chemist who worked in pharmaceutical development and a cheap a$$ brewer! I have been discouraged by the prices I've seen lately for fermentation/bottling buckets and started wondering if The Home Depot might be the answer to my issue. It seems that there is a lot of speculation and not a lot of data on this thread. I guess that the real question is, "What would make this bucket unsafe?" Now, I'm pretty sure that no one would collect safety data on an industrial product that is not intended for food use. Testing and the assiciated record keeping/oversight is quite expensive. So, that leaves us with doing our own risk assessment. I would think that there are two risks in using buckets outside their intended use. 1) Impact to quality. (flavor, appearance, consistency) 2) Impact on safety. (The third arm argument) I think that we can tackle these together because both impacts come from the same sources. I think that there are 3 sources that these impacts might come from. (Feel free to suggest more... I'm just speculating here) (To be continued...)

(Continued...)
1) Contamination... You would have to ask yourself what was this bucket used for before? Paint? Trash? Rat poison? And are you confident that you can get it clean. Plastics may seem solid, but they aren't like glass. The can adsorb things from whatever was in them before. (Although food safe, I have never been able to get the smell out of McDonald's pickle buckets!)
2) Leachables... These are things that are in the material itself that come out with contact. These include dyes, plasticizers (chemicals that keep the plastic soft) and the plastic itself. I think that hdpe (high density polyethylene) is pretty safe as well as the standard coloring materials used to make the buckets. I would be concerned about whete the buckets are sourced, however. Suppliers from Mexico and China have been known to be less than honest about what they use to make low cost products. (You can look up any number of scandals with both human and pet food products, lead compounds are still the cheapest colorants... that's why they were used in the first place)
(Continued again...wow, how I do prattle on...)

 

[DBhomebrew]

Right next to the orange buckets, they usually have a stack of white ones. They're food-grade.

 

[CheapBrewer]

(Continued...)
1) Contamination... You would have to ask yourself what was this bucket used for before? Paint? Trash? Rat poison? And are you confident that you can get it clean. Plastics may seem solid, but they aren't like glass. The can adsorb things from whatever was in them before. (Although food safe, I have never been able to get the smell out of McDonald's pickle buckets!)
2) Leachables... These are things that are in the material itself that come out with contact. These include dyes, plasticizers (chemicals that keep the plastic soft) and the plastic itself. I think that hdpe (high density polyethylene) is pretty safe as well as the standard coloring materials used to make the buckets. I would be concerned about whete the buckets are sourced, however. Suppliers from Mexico and China have been known to be less than honest about what they use to make low cost products. (You can look up any number of scandals with both human and pet food products, lead compounds are still the cheapest colorants... that's why they were used in the first place)
(Continued again...wow, how I do prattle on...)

(Continued...again)
3) Volatiles... These are vapors, solvents, and other various stinks! These don't necessarily need contact to spoil your stuff. There are various solvents used in plastics manufacture, some are human safe, but will still guve your product that little extra something that will make a beer judge scribble furiously on their score card. :-(
You can find these by simply sticking your nose in the bucket and inhaling deeply. Sometimes you get almond, sometimes band-aid, sometimes just a chemical smell. These will all infuse into whatever you have in the bucket over time. The level of contamination is a product of dilution and time. ie. 1 hour of bottling a 5 gallon batch is probably not noticable. Storing grain in a sealed container for months is something else entirely.

So, what does this all mean?
Can you use an orange bucket for brewing? I think that you have to decide for your self the level of risk that you're willing to take for both safety and quality.
A new washed/sanitized bucket from a reputable seller, (not the painter that lives next door) would probably be safe. Letting a new bucket 'air out' for a few weeks may reduce the volatiles coming out of the plastics. Personally, for storing grains for long periods, I would invest in food service containers. But, that's just me.
I'd be interested to hear your comments and experiences.
I haven't tried fermenting in a Homer bucket yet. Did you get any off flavors? Did you grow a third arm? Did you win a brewing competition?

 

[CheapBrewer]

Sorry about all the typos...fat fingers on tiny phone...

 

[CheapBrewer]

Right next to the orange buckets, they usually have a stack of white ones. They're food-grade.

I haven't seen these. Do they 'stink' when you give them a strong sniff?

 

[DBhomebrew]

I haven't seen these. Do they 'stink' when you give them a strong sniff?

No, they're food-grade. There are 2gal food-grade buckets, too. Great for making a 1.25G batch to then rack into a 1gal jug for long term conditioning.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leaktite-5-gal-70mil-Food-Safe-Bucket-White-005GFSWH020/300197644

 

[CheapBrewer]

No, they're food-grade. There are 2gal food-grade buckets, too. Great for making a 1.25G batch to then rack into a 1gal jug for long term conditioning.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leaktite-5-gal-70mil-Food-Safe-Bucket-White-005GFSWH020/300197644

Excellent!
I'll have to check these out!
I only use fermenters a couple of times before I retire them to cleaning/sanitizing containers. Buying from Midwest becomes too expensive....

 

[DBhomebrew]

The only benefit of the 'brew bucket' is their size. You can't do a 5G batch in a 5G bucket. They work for me as my standard volume in fermenter is 4G.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Hope this is not too far off topic, but I read a tip over the weekend regarding grain storage, which has been a challenge for me. The suggestion was put your grain in a corny keg, and purge with CO₂. The purpose is to retain freshness and prevent sawtoothed grain beetles. This seems like a great idea if you have a few extra kegs, although getting the grain out may be a little awkward.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Hope this is not too far off topic, but I read a tip over the weekend regarding grain storage, which has been a challenge for me. The suggestion was put your grain in a corny keg, and purge with CO₂. The purpose is to retain freshness and prevent sawtoothed grain beetles. This seems like a great idea if you have a few extra kegs, although getting the grain out may be a little awkward.

Field to consumer might take a couple years. Time spent in silo, truck, warehouse, truck, warehouse, store shelf, etc, etc. I doubt the last few weeks or months in a cozy CO2 environment will change much.

That's not to say you shouldn't keep it dry and protected from vermin.

 

[mac_1103]

I only use fermenters a couple of times before I retire them to cleaning/sanitizing containers.

Doesn't really sound like something a cheap brewer would do. You must have quite a bucket collection. If you really only trust plastic for a couple of uses, then even with what you'd save by getting them at a big box store instead of a brewing retailer you're probably better off in the long run investing in a stainless steel fermenter.

I have a couple of the 5 gallon food grade buckets that I got at Lowe's several years ago. I use them for brining birds for the smoker. Never used them to ferment. They have a faint smell of vinegar, but so what? I have three 6 - 6.5 gallon buckets that I ferment in. They smell like beer even right after a thorough cleaning, but again, so what? I don't see any reason to retire them unless/until they get scratched up, and I don't clean them with anything that should do that.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Field to consumer might take a couple years. Time spent in silo, truck, warehouse, truck, warehouse, store shelf, etc, etc. I doubt the last few weeks or months in a cozy CO2 environment will change much.

That's not to say you shouldn't keep it dry and protected from vermin.

I understand. My supplier states that sometimes the grain shows up with grain beetles already active on the pallets. His remedy is a period of freezer storage to supposedly kill the eggs and bugs. I don’t have excess freezer capacity for grain.
The bugs need oxygen, hence the CO₂ to deprive them. No bug, rat, mouse; not even a fire ant can get in a sealed up corny.
I have a few banged up, unattractive corny kegs I picked up really cheap. They’re ugly, but they hold pressure. I plan to give it a try before I spend more money on more containers.

Cheers!

 

[wdavis2003]

Personally, I would only use food grade containers if I'm going to be consuming whatever is stored in the container. You may not notice any off flavors or side effects but there are chemicals that could/will leach into the product that could be harmful over time. Especially if you are going to be reusing the product over a long period of time.

 

[Quentin Nelson]

FREE at your local supermarket with in-store bakery. They throw the frosting buckets away all the time. I usually score one first or second try. Obviously food grade, smell delicious.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Personally, I would only use food grade containers if I'm going to be consuming whatever is stored in the container. You may not notice any off flavors or side effects but there are chemicals that could/will leach into the product that could be harmful over time. Especially if you are going to be reusing the product over a long period of time.

Ditto that. Consider, even using “approved” containers poses some risk. How long was it OK to put BPA in our water bottles until it was determined to be hazardous.

 

[MaxStout]

I understand. My supplier states that sometimes the grain shows up with grain beetles already active on the pallets. His remedy is a period of freezer storage to supposedly kill the eggs and bugs. I don’t have excess freezer capacity for grain.
The bugs need oxygen, hence the CO₂ to deprive them. No bug, rat, mouse; not even a fire ant can get in a sealed up corny.
I have a few banged up, unattractive corny kegs I picked up really cheap. They’re ugly, but they hold pressure. I plan to give it a try before I spend more money on more containers.

Cheers!

Those grain weevils often hatch from eggs already present in the grain. It doesn't matter what container you store the grain in, if there are bug eggs, they'll hatch. Be curious to hear how CO2 will affect them. I don't think CO2 will impact the viability of the eggs, though it may smother the emerging insects--if you get almost all the O2 purged.

 

[MaxStout]

FREE at your local supermarket with in-store bakery. They throw the frosting buckets away all the time. I usually score one first or second try. Obviously food grade, smell delicious.

Call a few restaurants and talk to the head cooks. They get all kinds of things shipped in food-grade buckets, and will probably give you some empties.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Those grain weevils often hatch from eggs already present in the grain. It doesn't matter what container you store the grain in, if there are bug eggs, they'll hatch. Be curious to hear how CO2 will affect them. I don't think CO2 will impact the viability of the eggs, though it may smother the emerging insects--if you get almost all the O2 purged.

That’s the impression I got; they are there, freezing will kill adults and eggs, but any survivors from the deep freeze will need oxygen to make it.

 

[DBhomebrew]

They definitely won't survive the boil.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

They definitely won't survive the boil.

And they can’t drink much!