Hard cider apple juice problem

[LeBreton]

If you're getting bad smells or flavors from using campden, you're either using it wrong, or are especially sensitive to it. Either way, it's a bad reason to tell others not to use it.

 

[LeBreton]

What do you mean by pasteurize before fermentation? You have to be careful about heating your must before fermentation as this could cause pectins in the juice to "open" and congeal. I've used campden successfully, and never noticed any foul odor or taste from it.

Some people but their juice in a pot and heat it to 140ish for a few minutes to kill most microorganisms but not hot enough to set the pectins.

Seems like a lot of work to me, but it works.

 

[truck1985]

No, this is incorrect.

Campden does not kill yeast. Especially not a healthy colony at maximum population, and especially not a commercial strain. Even most wild yeasts will not be killed, although they may be slightly inhibited momentarily if in early stages.

It does kill bacteria and other spoilage organisms, as well as protect against oxidation.

It does not prevent bottle conditioning, nor does it make must or cider sterile.

Sodiummetabisulfite, which is all campden is, does kill bacteria, and anything else that is aerobic (requires air to live) which includes yeast. It does this by essentially removing the oxygen from the environment in which it is used. Conditioning is not the same as carbonating. It will bottle condition after adding campden, but won't carbonate.

 

[LeBreton]

You are wrong.

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/adding.asp



Also bottle conditioning is lingo for carbonating in the bottle.

 

[truck1985]

You are wrong.

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/adding.asp



Also bottle conditioning is lingo for carbonating in the bottle.

You are wrong, and trust me when I say I site sources too. And conditioning simply is ageing, not carbonating.

 

[truck1985]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campden_tablets

 

[LeBreton]

From your own link . . .

It is a common misconception that campden tablet can be used to halt the ferment process in wine before all the available sugars are converted by the yeast, hence controlling the amount of residual sweetness in the final product. This however is not true. In order to halt fermentation, enough campden tablets would have to be added to render the wine undrinkable. Alternatively, when used in conjunction with potassium sorbate, the yeast population will be greatly reduced and prevented from reproducing. Without the addition of potassium sorbate the yeast population will only be stunned and eventually repopulate if provided with enough fermentable sugars

For your reading pleasure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_conditioning

 

[Britinusa]

I am fermenting my first cider batch, I just bought organic apple juice from Whole foods added Dry Pectic Enzyme and some champagne yeast and 1/2 cup sugar had nice smell like sweet apple pie for about a week now its not doing much, its only 1 gallon so ill leave it a few more weeks then rack to another carboy to age.

 

[LBussy]

Bottle conditioning, in beer brewing, is synonymous with carbonation. I suppose Cider spans the two different sides of the same coin so there is some overlap. Semantics don't make drinks.

Campden will stop yeast when you want it to keep going, and it will allow yeast to thrive when you do not. There's a critical need detector in it - very small machine, you'd never know it's there. Sometimes it will prevent carbonation. Sometimes you expect it to stop/slow and you will make bottle grenades.

This is why a beginning cider maker should find a good, established, accepted recipe and process, and start there. There are exceptions to every rule but generally campden is used on fresh must to kill off the beasties. It is allowed to "gas off" for about 24 hours or so, then a viable colony of good yeast is added. In theory the campden slows these down too but you've pitched enough that they will be fine. Since you started with pasteurized cider you are in theory fine. Of course you added other stuff so a 24-hour treatment may have been warranted. The point is you missed that window so you go past it, looking forward, and see what happens.

Successive rackings (or every other, or some other schedule) are when winemakers add more to help protect the wine. I'd not worry about this - if your process is clean you'll be okay, if it's not you are already on your way to something other than cider.

We are also talking about cider here, which is often meant to be enjoyed fresh. We're also talking about a new person and a gallon recipe so it's not going to be around long. Let it go, enjoy the ride, and see what you get. If there's something about it you don't like when you are finished, folks can help you adders those things. My first ciders were gallon jugs I brought back from the farm with fresh cider in them that were "forgotten" for a couple weeks. I didn't know enough to know how badly I mistreated my cider. All I knew is that it was good. I kinda miss those days.

 

[NYHC718]

I am fermenting my first cider batch, I just bought organic apple juice from Whole foods added Dry Pectic Enzyme and some champagne yeast and 1/2 cup sugar had nice smell like sweet apple pie for about a week now its not doing much, its only 1 gallon so ill leave it a few more weeks then rack to another carboy to age.

Did you see any activity when you added the yeast? Day 3 and still nothing for me

 

[LBussy]

Did you see any activity when you added the yeast? Day 3 and still nothing for me

You might not see much ... a gallon batch may get a rung of bubbles in the neck and that's about it. Smell the airlock, you should be able to detect something.

 

[Britinusa]

I'm not seeing activity in the airlock but I have a ring of bubbles so I know the yeast I happily working away.

 

[NYHC718]

You might not see much ... a gallon batch may get a rung of bubbles in the neck and that's about it. Smell the airlock, you should be able to detect something.

Just got home and checked it out and it looks like on almost about day 6 it's starting to ferment. I have bubbles all around the top and the airlock is starting to go off. Cool I can't wait to see how this taste. Thanks everyone for the help. Now I still wonder why it took almost 6 days to ferment others usually say about 2 days they see activity. Yesterday it still looked like nothing was happening. Well at least it's starting to ferment now

 

[UncleWhomper]

What do you mean by pasteurize before fermentation? You have to be careful about heating your must before fermentation as this could cause pectins in the juice to "open" and congeal. I've used campden successfully, and never noticed any foul odor or taste from it.

That's what pectic enzyme is for!! You're not supposed to boil but just keep it around 170 for like 45 minutes. Works great!

 

[Britinusa]

I didnt heat my juice before fermentation, will that cause an issue?

 

[saramc]

If you have pitched your yeast, yes, Campden is Sodiummetabisulfite in solid form, it will kill your yeast.

Huge misnomer....campden does not, will not kill yeast. Neither does sorbate. I have added SO2 hundreds of times while ferment in progress and my yeast were fine. (As evidenced by successful Skeeter Pee from said lees, even dry SG lees). When I have a product which already has SO2 on board I usually do not add SO2 until my gravity has dropped by 2/3. Just something I tend to do.
Yeast are aerobic/anaerobic which is why SO2 does not kill yeast, they survive without oxygen. If it were simply a matter of adding SO2 to kill yeast there would be no need for sorbate, benzoate, pasteurization, or sterile filtration by commercial shops.

LeBreton, +1 to you!

I didnt heat my juice before fermentation, will that cause an issue?

brit...if you heat too high, too long you COULD set the pectins and have trouble clearing the cider, but if a clear product is of no concern then it is a mute point. Many of us steam juice our fruit, and it mimics pasteurization.

 

[WilliamSlayer]

I didnt heat my juice before fermentation, will that cause an issue?

No. This just to minimize the chances of wild yeast and bacteria competing with the yeast you pitch.