Hard Apple Cider Burning Throat

[graftedin]

I started about 16 .5 to 1 gal test batches of hard cider last fall.

Something has gotten in the mix that makes them very acidic or something. So much so that it's burning my mouth and throat.

My local brew shop has suggested that apple cider gets very acidic and I know that apple cider vinegar is one of the more acidic vinegars....incase they've just started to turn. I've had apple cider vinegar and haven't had this problem. And my ph levels are all about 3.6 to 3.8 which sounds like it would be normal. Not all of my batches are bad and there seems to be no noticeable link to the ph level and batches that are bad.

In one of my half gals I put in a can of concentrated apple juice to see if that would dilute whatever was causing the problem. That didn't work so I put in a tsp of potassium bicarbonate and let that run its course for a few weeks. That didn't work..... this batch tastes great but burns.

I also had switched from using 1 Step to Star San for my sanitizing. My understanding is that the foam you get from the Star San is ok to have left in the container and I haven't been very good about letting it dry. With the 1 Step that didn't seem to be a problem but the Star San uses acid to work I think and so I'm wondering if something when wrong with the sanitizing.

My ciders have not fermented down to 0 yet so I dropped in potassium sorbate to get them to be ready to bottle. This is the first time I've used potassium sorbate so I don't know if I'm just having a reaction to it. This doesn't seem like just an allergic reaction that would result in swelling.

I'm working on getting my self to accept that most of these batches are just a loss. I'll probably get over it eventually. BUT I'd really like to know what happened so I know need to learn this expensive lesson again.

Does anyone have any ideas of what the problem might be?

Thanks

 

[malkore]

It's not the star-san (well, unless you didn't dilute it in the first place...)

It kind of sounds like fusal alcohols produced from a 'less than perfect' fermentation process. Fusals give the alcohol a 'hotness' that you might compare to cheap whiskey.

 

[graftedin]

Star san is properly diluted.

Would that "hotness" create an acid like burn in my mouth, throat, and esophagus?

"Less than perfect"... Is that because of bad temp, not enough nutrience? Some of these were really slow starters with their fermintation. I actually had to shock some of them in to life by dropping in extra packs of yeast. All of the ones that had a slow start are bad but then some of the others that started with normal speed are bad too.

Does this hotness mellow out with age or where these just really expensive experiments?

 

[stujol]

just let it mellow, almost all my apple wine (I make most of it from cider) is "hot" at first give it 10 months or so and you will be amazed.

 

[JimBrewer]

To be scientific about the whole thing, the reason your cider is hot and probably has a faint vinegar taste is that the yeast is getting too much oxygen. In order to brew a cider you need to keep the yeast anaerobic. If the yeast have oxygen they will switch from anaerobic fermentation to aerobic respiration.

The most basic fix for this is simply to ensure that your container is properly sealed and try simply using a tube that feeds water at the other end to vent the mixture. You can also use the same venting tip when brewing ginger beer.

I hope this helps.

 

[roadymi]

I would never give up on a cider in less than 12 months unless it had an obvious foul looking infection.

I don't understand the science behind it but age seems to cure a lot of ills.

 

[graftedin]

Will age fix this problem as long as they are sealed?

To be scientific about the whole thing, the reason your cider is hot and probably has a faint vinegar taste is that the yeast is getting too much oxygen. In order to brew a cider you need to keep the yeast anaerobic. If the yeast have oxygen they will switch from anaerobic fermentation to aerobic respiration.

The most basic fix for this is simply to ensure that your container is properly sealed and try simply using a tube that feeds water at the other end to vent the mixture. You can also use the same venting tip when brewing ginger beer.

I hope this helps.

 

[graftedin]

I appreciate all of the help you guys are giving. I'm not 100% convinced we are talking about the same thing. Would this "hotness" result in burning? Its almost like I downed a shot of acid.

 

[JimBrewer]

I'm not sure, I think it might though. The acidity could decrease as time passes and yes as long as the yeast aren't getting any oxygen. Don't quote me on that but the acidity comes from the yeast behavior, and it's difficult to tell whether it can be reversed with a better seal or whether the acidity is there to stay.

It's worth a shot and it wouldn't do any harm. Perhaps even letting it ferment for a bit longer may be the ultimate answer assuming you weren't having any previous problems with your seal.

Good luck!

 

[graftedin]

Thanks Jim...

If someone could confirm that this hotness really feels like an acid/chemical burn. Litterally weeks after this I'm still feeling the effects on my throat......and I'm singer so this is a big deal.

 

[Honda88]

odd, if your still feeling the effects from it weeks after, it is not alcohol related. you may be alergic, I would see a doctor if it doesnt clear up.

 

[NiteBeest]

Yea... if it still feels like it's burning you could be having an allergic reaction to something. Ever been allergic to apples? Allergic to sorbates? Might be time to see the doc if it still doesn't feel right. Especially if it feels like an acid/chemical burn.

 

[graftedin]

No insurance and it is getting better slowly.

This is the first time I've used Potassium Sorbate and I'm seeing some sources that are comparing a reaction to a burning in the throat or tongue. I have some meads that are getting close to bottling so I may sacrifice one and put some in there to see if I have the same problem.

Thanks for the help.

 

[JimBrewer]

You may have damaged your esophagus from the acidity of the 'vinegar', but I wouldn't worry about the effects being permanent. I incorrectly used apple cider vinegar awhile back and remember the sensation lasting a little while.

I'm not sure if the effects lasted weeks, but your home brew may have been more acidic than the pH regulated vinegar they sell at the store. I know someone with acid reflux which can also char the esophagus and they sometimes gargle salt water to relieve the sensation.

The salt water acts as a hygroscopic solution and may make you feel better. I hope your problem gets solved, sounds painful.

 

[graftedin]

But if the ph is that low (acid that high) shouldn't it have shown on the test strips? I really hate those test strips the colors always look the same to me.

 

[JimBrewer]

Theoretically yes, but I've had a whale of a time with those strips. Any bit of moisture can throw them completely off. This is also assuming that they work properly when they are in pristine condition which I can't say with any sort of faith that they do.

It also doesn't take an extremely low pH to irritate the throat. I'm thinking that the color could be a shade off maybe even too little to notice but still enough to burn the thin lining of the esophagus. I'll bet that the substance has an even higher pH than that of the apple cider vinegar mentioned above but can still cause irritation.

I would suggest some new strips perhaps if they keep giving you trouble but to be honest I haven't found any that I'm exceedingly happy with.