Haier NuCool for fermentation

[carbon111]

...but it's definitely too cold for ales without an external controller.

So does anyone have a suggestion for a cheap controller?

 

[dontman]

Yeah, Evil, I'm getting pretty much the same temp. I ferment my lagers at 50 so it is a touch too cold for that although it is very close.

As far as inexpensive controllers Eastern Precision (I think that's the name) has a JC A19 unwired for $44 plus shipping.

I got one of those off ebay for $39 delivered.

Then there is the no name unit from CHI. I also have one of these. It sells for $35 plus shipping. It is prewired with a piggyback though so that saves a couple bucks and time that you might spend for the wiring. It works fine once you figure out its deadspace. It has a 3 degree swing and works really well if you build a thermowell for it.

 

[Honus]

Has anyone tried to put a 6.5 gal glass carboy in this yet? I'm thinking the acid carboys will be too wide, but if the regular ones work I might invest in it.

I saw that the BBs fit in there, but I'm not sure how I feel about them yet...

 

[jpc]

UV light is somewhere under 400nm and typically most LEDs are a "single" wavelength and at 460nm... so it's probably safe

First of all, UV isn't light (had a prof in college that was adamant about this-- it's "radiation").

But more to the point, I was under the impression that it wasn't UV that caused the problem, but other wavelengths.

 

[Munsoned]

I brewed an Irish Red this weekend, and took the Haier NuCool for it's initial run. Seems to be working out so far. It got the temp. of the wort/beer down to 63-64 in less than an hour I think (from 75*, 6 gallons)... I think the real test will be a lager...

 

[RichBenn]

Maybe this would be a good option for the 6.5 gallon carboys:

Silicone Stopper - Vented

View attachment 12588

I ran across it on the Northern Brewer site a few days ago. Works as a stopper as well as an airlock and it looks like it would barely add an inch to the height of a carboy.

Since I didn't see this addressed, AFAIK, these are for secondary fermentation, e.g. - low outgassing rates. Typically used for long term aging on wine. Not a direct replacement for an airlock, but might be OK for secondary?

 

[lamarguy]

I brewed an Irish Red this weekend, and took the Haier NuCool for it's initial run. Seems to be working out so far. It got the temp. of the wort/beer down to 63-64 in less than an hour I think (from 75*, 6 gallons)... I think the real test will be a lager...

How were you measuring the temperature of the wort?

Sorry, the numbers just don't make sense. I have a frost-free upright freezer that consumes 440 watts (400 watts minus the fan) and is ~50% efficient. The NuCool consumes 100 watts and is only ~10% efficient (based on the Carnot cycle).

My forced air upright freezer requires 1hr to cool 6 gallons of wort from 75F to 65F. I think you see the problem...

 

[Munsoned]

Valid point. I measured using the Love controller probe taped to the side of the carboy, and wrapped on the outside with about 2 or 3 (clean) gym socks for insulation. To put it another way: the probe is taped right on the carboy side wall (it's a better bottle), and is wrapped on the other side with the socks and duct tape. The unit is in a basement that is ambient 67-69*.

A few thoughts: First, I didn't time the thing exactly--my numbers are just estimates--so maybe it was longer, or my initial wort was cooler than 75* (that's where it was the last time I had checked it, but admittedly, I didn't check it right away when I put it in the fridge). Second, the reading I got was off the Love controller probe, which might not be accurate--I haven't calibrated it against anything else yet. Third, the ambient air temperature inside the fridge may have been messing with the probe itself (i.e., my insulation job may not have worked at all, so maybe it was reading the air temp rather than the wort temp). I'm sure a thermowell would be more accurate.

Over the past week the Love controller has been reading a fairly steady 63-64* every time I walk past it. I don't know how often the fridge is turning on to keep that level, but I don't think I've witnessed it in the on cylce since I put the carboy in there last weekend. Overall, the point of my post was that I had some pretty big fears that the thing just wouldn't cool the wort down enough, quickly enough. While I've put those fears aside for ale temps, like I said, I'm really interested in seeing if this thing can handle lager temps.

Next time I brew I'll try to take accurate readings and re-post my results.

 

[lamarguy]

Next time I brew I'll try to take accurate readings and re-post my results.

Ya, I hope you don't think I'm raining on your parade, I'm just trying to ensure the numbers are realistic. I've experimented with a thermoelectic wine cooler in the past and, while it works great at maintaining ~65F during active fermentation in a 78F room, it's absolutely horrible at cooling down a thermal mass from 75F to 65F.

Therefore, I would expect similar results from your efforts - great at maintaining fermentation temperature, horrible at large (10+ degree) temperature drops.

For your next experiment, I would encourage you to use a thermowell or drop a sanitized thermometer in the wort to get an accurate measurement. That's how I measure the temperature in my upright freezer.

 

[HVBrewtality]

i just picked up a NuCool from craigslist. chopping into it now.

 

[Munsoned]

Ya, I hope you don't think I'm raining on your parade, I'm just trying to ensure the numbers are realistic.

Not at all.

I've experimented with a thermoelectic wine cooler in the past and, while it works great at maintaining ~65F during active fermentation in a 78F room, it's absolutely horrible at cooling down a thermal mass from 75F to 65F.

Therefore, I would expect similar results from your efforts - great at maintaining fermentation temperature, horrible at large (10+ degree) temperature drops.

For your next experiment, I would encourage you to use a thermowell or drop a sanitized thermometer in the wort to get an accurate measurement. That's how I measure the temperature in my upright freezer.

I have exactly the same concerns as you with the big temp swings. Thinking about it more this afternoon, I figured that I'm going to crash cool this batch in about a week or two. Instead of taking it out of the Haier and dropping it into my keezer, I think I'll instead try to do it in place in the Haier. I need to do a diacatyl rest too, so I'll first raise the temp up to 70* for a few days, then drop in a thermowell or drop in a sanitized probe, then drop the Love controller down to 40* to see how fast the thing does a 30* drop. It won't be fighting the heat generated by fermentation, but at least it will tell me how quick I can drop 30* in this thing, which may be a useful datapoint in and of itself...

 

[Honus]

I cut the shelves out of the door and put a batch (in a bucket) in on Sunday. Seems to be working quite well so far.

Has anyone tried putting a 6.5 gallon glass carboy in one of these yet? Hows that fit?

 

[EvilGnome6]

I need to do a diacatyl rest too, so I'll first raise the temp up to 70* for a few days, then drop in a thermowell or drop in a sanitized probe, then drop the Love controller down to 40* to see how fast the thing does a 30* drop. It won't be fighting the heat generated by fermentation, but at least it will tell me how quick I can drop 30* in this thing, which may be a useful datapoint in and of itself...

I had a 5 gallon batch at 77F that I wanted to drop to 60F. I have a Love controller with the probe duct taped to the side of a glass carboy. I set the temperature at about 11:00AM and by 7:00PM it was down to about 65F.

My house is at 78F.

This seems a little more reasonable. About 1-2 degrees per hour. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing since you're less likely to shock the yeast with slow drops.

 

[Munsoned]

Just following up on this thread with another data point (paying a bit closer attention this time). I pitched today at 74*F at a few minutes before noon--I was up at 6AM brewing this morning--talk about dedication! I set the Love controller for 50*F (it's a lager). It is now about 9:30PM, and the probe reads 58*F. That's about a 16*F temp drop in about 10 hours if my math is right. Let's call it a degree and a half per hour so far...

Basment ambient is currently about 70*F.

 

[lamarguy]

I had a 5 gallon batch at 77F...at about 11:00AM and by 7:00PM it was down to about 65F.

My house is at 78F.

JI pitched today at 74*F...It is now about 9:30PM, and the probe reads 58*F. That's about a 16*F temp drop in about 10 hours if my math is right. Let's call it a degree and a half per hour so far...

Basment ambient is currently about 70*F.

Thanks for following up! 1.5F/hr sounds much more realistic.

The ambient temperature clearly plays a small factor in the performance, but it's really a question of how close to pitching temperature you can get before placing the fermenter in the NuCool. With my freezer, if I get within 10F, I only have to wait up to an hour to get to pitching temperature. But, I live in satan's armpit so I need a lot of cooling horsepower...

 

[dontman]

I tend to agree about the pitching temp thing. If you are waiting the 10 hours until the wort hits 68 to pitch the yeast that seems a little long. If you are pitching at 77 and then waiting 10 hours for the nucool to cool it down to mid 60's with the yeast already in it then that can can definitely be too long.

I tend to chill into the 60's with my chiller and then pitching and just using the nucool to maintain the temp.

 

[chuggs]

I cut the shelves out of the door and put a batch (in a bucket) in on Sunday. Seems to be working quite well so far.

Has anyone tried putting a 6.5 gallon glass carboy in one of these yet? Hows that fit?

I need to know that too. I always use a 6.5 gal glass carboy for primary...rubber stopper and airlock on top. It's a must if I'm going to use the Haier NuCool... It would be a bonus if my JT's glass blowoff tube would fit inside too... I usually keep it on until the krausen starts to die off.

Thx!

 

[Munsoned]

Thanks for following up! 1.5F/hr sounds much more realistic.

The ambient temperature clearly plays a small factor in the performance, but it's really a question of how close to pitching temperature you can get before placing the fermenter in the NuCool. With my freezer, if I get within 10F, I only have to wait up to an hour to get to pitching temperature. But, I live in satan's armpit so I need a lot of cooling horsepower...

No problem. My immersion chiller did a pretty good job yesterday, it got the wort down to 74 pretty quickly, but I was in a hurry to get to an appointment, so I didn't bother hooking up the prechiller to try to drop it more.

Had I taken the time, then I don't think the "cooling power" of the unit would not really have been an issue at all. It is currently holding 50*F with no problem. I don't know how long it took to get to 50*F itself, but it was there when I woke up this AM. So, it was less than 18 hours total. So, not 100% sure exactly how long it took to take 24-25* off the wort, but it's certainly not more than 18 hours (i.e., 1.3*F per hour). Two take away points: 1) this thing does probably 1.5*F per hour, but 1.3*F per hour minimum; and 2) it apparently did not slow down the colder it got (i.e., I don't think it struggled for those last few degrees).

So, I think the next test is to see if it can handle a real lagering temp (35-40ish). After my primary ferment is done, I'll try it and report back again. Worst case scenario: I'll just do the lager phase in my keezer, which was my original intent anyway...

My late-season Oktoberfest is bubbling away nicely at the moment.

 

[EvilGnome6]

Just as an update. The 5 and 6 gallon Better Bottles fit perfectly using a stopper and 3 piece airlock. It leaves 2 inches of clearance:




Oh, yeah. Both the 5 gallon and 6 gallon Better Bottles require the shelves to be cut out.

 

[Munsoned]

Just as an update. The 5 and 6 gallon Better Bottles fit perfectly using a stopper and 3 piece airlock. It leaves 2 inches of clearance.

Thanks for that. I know a lot of people have been asking about the capacity for different sized containers, and my glass carboy is "with pellicle" at the moment, so I can't really move it to check myself. What do you have brewing in there? Looks good...

Mine is still holding 50* very consistently for my Oktoberfest. I've never seen it at 49* or 51* for nearly two weeks now. Wish my keezer were that consistent...

 

[Honus]

I've had my 5 gallon glass carboy in there and it fits fine, maybe an inch or two clearance with a three piece airlock.

But I'm very curious as to if/how a 6.5 gallon glass carboy fits.

 

[EvilGnome6]

Thanks for that. I know a lot of people have been asking about the capacity for different sized containers, and my glass carboy is "with pellicle" at the moment, so I can't really move it to check myself. What do you have brewing in there? Looks good...

Yeah, I think the only vessel we haven't had confirmation on is a 6.5 gallon carboy. Everything else has worked fine so far.

Currently fermenting is a Belgian Dubbel. I just snagged this recipe from Northern Brewer and so far it's looking really nice.

Mine is still holding 50* very consistently for my Oktoberfest. I've never seen it at 49* or 51* for nearly two weeks now. Wish my keezer were that consistent...

I also have really good consistency holding temps, especially when I resist opening the door to take a peek.

Crash cooling on the other hand is not this fridge's forte. I started at 78F and set the controller to 35F. It took 24 hours to get to 52F (not too shabby) and then it took 48 hours to get to 40F and would NOT go any lower. Ambient temperature was 78F. It'll probably do a bit better in a cooler room but if you're looking to quickly crash a batch to near freezing, this isn't the fridge for you.

 

[Red Clay]

I'm thinking about this as the cooler for my poor-man's 'glycol' chiller. Since my kegerator is set at 48F, I'd like to have a lower-temp unit to provide temp control for my fermentation cabinet.

I figure loaded with six gallons of glycol, an aquarium pump, and filling the extra space with thermal mass (maybe metal or ceramic?) this thing should be able to keep my two well-insulated fermentation chambers at target temps.

Has anyone tried upgrading the hot-side heat exchanger to increase the dT? If you could get it below 32F you could leave ice jugs in there to serve as thermal mass to handle swings in demand for cooling.

 

[lamarguy]

I'm thinking about this as the cooler for my poor-man's 'glycol' chiller. Since my kegerator is set at 48F, I'd like to have a lower-temp unit to provide temp control for my fermentation cabinet.

Keep in mind, the NuCool is energy inefficient...Especially at lower temperatures.

 

[Red Clay]

Good point. These things require about three times the energy that they move, right? At least I think I read that somewhere. So I guess that is worse than the freon cycle.

Has anyone tried reversing the polarity to use it as both a heater and cooler to maintain a target temp? Just curious, as that is one of the benefits of the Peltier effect, iirc.

 

[EricCSU]

Just as an update. The 5 and 6 gallon Better Bottles fit perfectly using a stopper and 3 piece airlock. It leaves 2 inches of clearance:



Oh, yeah. Both the 5 gallon and 6 gallon Better Bottles require the shelves to be cut out.

Thanks a lot for the info and the pics! I will definitely be picking up one now!

Eric

 

[lamarguy]

Has anyone tried reversing the polarity to use it as both a heater and cooler to maintain a target temp? Just curious, as that is one of the benefits of the Peltier effect, iirc.

Yes, I experimented with that concept on a converted wine cooler a while back. It works but, in my early testing, I fried the OEM peltier device switching from cooling to heating too fast. Adding a 5 minute delay resolved the thermo-expansion issue.

Bottom line for me - thermoelectric cooling is inefficient and doesn't come close to meeting my cooling needs in the Texas heat. It can work in cooler climates but it's still not nearly as efficient as compressor cooling.

 

[garbs]

How are these working out for you guys that have them?

I am considering picking one up due to my space constraints. I wish I had room for a bigger fridge/freezer but I need something fairly small.

 

[dood56]

How are these working out for you guys that have them?

I am considering picking one up due to my space constraints. I wish I had room for a bigger fridge/freezer but I need something fairly small.

I am too looking for an update. Target has it on sale for $100, but not too sure if I should by this or build the ferm cabinet out of insulation. Would like to lager some day, but not sure which way to go currently.

 

[garbs]

I decided against it due to all the negative reviews on Target.com. There are way too many people saying that the thing just stopped working all together after a period of a few months.

I just picked up a free mini fridge that is almost big enough to fit my better bottle. I plan on adding a small collar (5 inches) so that everything will fit.