Guinness Clone Questions

[hawkwing]

For those who have made Guinness clones how close were they? What is the best recipe that you have found?

I’m planning to make some soon and have a few questions.

First is there a big difference if I use local 2 row pale malt vs Maris Otter?

Second is East Kent Goldings the correct hop as I’ve seen other recipes with multiple different hops?

I was planning on using lactic acid to sour.

I was going to pressure ferment and carbonate partially then finish and serve with nitrogen.

Any pointers or knowledge would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[GoodTruble]

I would use maris otter.

 

[hawkwing]

Does the brand mater? Looks like I can get 4 kinds. We’ll sort of. Only crisp is on stock. The is also Simpsons and Bairds that are out of stock. Another wholesaler might had Warminster organic but it’s listed as specialty order and they don’t special orders one bag. I would only be able to get it if they either have it or are getting it for a bigger client. Oddly it’s the most expensive too at $98 vs prairie pale at $35 for a bag.

 

[balrog]

I recommend this recipe personally, but I don't serve on nitrogen.
https://beerandbrewing.com/make-your-best-dry-irish-stout/

 

[GoodTruble]

Some people insist floor malted is the way to go (which some Crisp is). But I would just go with whatever is easiest/most accessible.

-Making "exactly" Guinness is very difficult (even the original doesn't always taste the same), and so I wouldn't get too hung up on the smaller details (at least, at first).

 

[DBhomebrew]

You won't go wrong with Crisp.

+1 on making your goal a tasty dry Irish stout, not necessarily a Guinness. I've brewed the Weikert recipe linked above. Fermented with 1084, it was really good.

 

[Beerstein]

I just did a clone. I used a floor malted something…maybe Bairds or Swaen…only cause i had it handy.

I used 3ml lactic acid to acidify the mash for a five gallon batch. Pressure fermented with Notty. Tastes 90% the same as guiness. Have it on co2 with a stout tap.

Edit to add: I deviated and used enzymes to ferment out all the dextrins. Mouth feel is exactly the same.

 

[hawkwing]

I might have to make it a few different ways. For research of course.

 

[40yr@HB]

Buillion for bittering. Maris Otter, yes. Also some UK DME amber. A mix of chocolate, roasted, black patent malts. Flaked barley.

 

[hawkwing]

Buillion for bittering. Maris Otter, yes. Also some UK DME amber. A mix of chocolate, roasted, black patent malts. Flaked barley.

Most of the recipes I’ve seen only use Maris otter, flaked and roasted. Do these other grains bring it closer in some way?

 

[rburrelli]

Why are you souring? If you are using lactic for pH I can see that.

 

[hawkwing]

Why are you souring? If you are using lactic for pH I can see that.

This has been discussed in the online recipes. They say Guinness has a bit of souring and they used to do this naturally by souring a portion of beer with lactic bacteria. Basically it’s done for flavor.

 

[GoodTruble]

I've read (but not yet tried) recipes that have you leave a glass of guinness out (covered) for 3-4 days to then add to the batch for souring. I intend to try it some day.

 

[hawkwing]

I've read (but not yet tried) recipes that have you leave a glass of guinness out (covered) for 3-4 days to then add to the batch for souring. I intend to try it some day.

You could also inoculate it with lactobacillus.

 

[rmr9]

I’ve read the Guinness being soured thing before too, and honestly I don’t understand where it comes from. I’ve drank plenty of Guinness both here in the US and at the brewery in Dublin and I never experienced any sourness to it. I’m not saying it’s wrong I’m just saying I’ve never experienced a sour Guinness.

 

[GoodTruble]

I’ve read the Guinness being soured thing before too, and honestly I don’t understand where it comes from. I’ve drank plenty of Guinness both here in the US and at the brewery in Dublin and I never experienced any sourness to it. I’m not saying it’s wrong I’m just saying I’ve never experienced a sour Guinness.

The whole batch isn't sour, they just (or at least used to) mix a small amount of soured beer in. It may be all in my head, but I swear it used to be more prevalent and is not any more.

 

[estricklin]

I used to brew Guinness clones all the time. I always used the recipe from the book “Cone Brews”, I found it to be spot on. I would add lactic acid. I would not use Marris Otter, it has a distinctive malty flavor, just use some plain 2 row.

 

[beren]

I’ve brewed Dry Irish Stout a few times, both with a normal tap and co2, and nitro. It’s good. Used beersmith to scale it down to a 5.5gal batch. I haven’t added any lactic acid but I can tell it’s missing. Still good though.

 

[rmr9]

Maybe I’ll have to put a dry stout on my to-brew list and pick up some cans of Guinness and see if I can pick it out. I vaguely remember reading or hearing somewhere that if there’s a sour note in Guinness it’s from dirty beer lines at the establishment.

From a more technical standpoint how do you handle mash pH with that amount of highly roasted grain and then adding lactic acid on top of it?

 

[Brewdog80]

At least to my palate, there is no souring to Guinness. I would use an English 2 row, not any American grain..... there is a difference

 

[youngdh]

I've read (but not yet tried) recipes that have you leave a glass of guinness out (covered) for 3-4 days to then add to the batch for souring. I intend to try it some day.

I’ve tried souring beer and adding to the batch with no success. I now put acidulated malt at 1.5% of the grist into the mash to get the Guinness twang. Works perfectly .

 

[ross.filipek]

I’ve tried souring beer and adding to the batch with no success. I now put acidulated malt at 1.5% of the grist into the mash to get the Guinness twang. Works perfectly .

Same here. I've done a Foreign Extra Stout clone and pulled about half a quart of wort out of the kettle, about 10 minutes into the boil (before any hop additions). I put it in a covered saucepan, cooled it to room temperature, and pitched a vial of L. plantarum. Let it work for a couple of days, boiled and cooled the soured wort, and then pitched into my actively fermenting primary. Bottle-conditioned the whole thing. The beer was good, though I couldn't detect any twang through all that roasted barley.

Guinness purportedly started doing the sour-blending trick to recapture the character that had been lost when they stopped bottle conditioning FES (in 1950 or thereabouts).

 

[Steveruch]

I made a stout several years ago that wasn't meant to be a Guinness clone but........ I cold steeped the roast barley overnight except I absent mindedly left it out at room temperature. It ended up tasting similar to Guinness.

 

[Spivey24]

I have in my notes that the lactic acid really helped. I agree that guineas needs a little souring.

Guinness add 88% lactic acid to the beer after fermentation is done, before kegging.All it takes is around 3-4 ml per 5 gallon keg.

 

[beren]

The recipe I linked talks about it and says you can add a drop or 3 to a glass to compare

 

[hawkwing]

I was going to try fermenting under pressure for the first time. Then a closed air transfer. Makes it hard to add after. Not sure how I’d do that yet. Especially since I’ve seen the keg filled with water first to remove the oxygen.

Do you think it would be too much acid to add prior to fermentation? Seems the sour malt works ok.

 

[balrog]

Run the fermenter CO2 hooked into the LIQUID OUT of the "serving" keg, and run GAS IN of serving keg to jug of starsan. The amount of CO2 gas produced by typical 5 gal beer will purge the serving keg extremely well. Fill with lactic first if you want.

I like the sourmalz in the mash myself. The "twang" is hardly noticeable and barely there.

 

[Beerstein]

How long do people typically let their batches age before consumption?

The clone recipe I used called for 16oz of roasted barley for a 5 gal batch, and that seems like a lot.

 

[lumpher]

Where people are getting the "sour" idea is that Guiness used to sour 3% of the base grain for a batch. Not sure if they do anymore.

 

[hawkwing]

Who knows what the truth is but I read that they make a Guinness extract or syrup that they ship. The Guinness that’s made in Canada is claimed to be all pale malt before the extract is added.

 

[40yr@HB]

Most of the recipes I’ve seen only use Maris otter, flaked and roasted. Do these other grains bring it closer in some way?

The chocolate, roasted, and black patent smooths out the roasted portion, cuts down on flavor offs. Still the "blond in a black skirt".

 

[neale]

Anyone interested in a Guinness clone should check out this video it has some interesting pointers from Guinness themselves. No mention of souring though.

 

[hawkwing]

I watched one similar to that too. May have been the same guy. I picked up that they use only roasted unmalted barley in the 10% range. Not sure how close the roasted barley we can get is to their custom roasted. They also said FG 1.008. In the other video I mentioned they said they do a 90 minute boil.

I’ve been developing a recipe in both the Grainfather app and BeerSmith. I’m currently tweaking the water profile. I’m starting from distilled and using the Wicklow water profile.

 

[hawkwing]

I finally finished my first recipe and brewed it last night. Still waiting for signs of yeast life.

 

[GoodTruble]

Maris Otter or no? That seems to be the most fundamental difference of opinion.

 

[hawkwing]

Maris Otter or no? That seems to be the most fundamental difference of opinion.

Yes Maris Otter. I got Crisp. I'm a little concerned that I'm not seeing any yeast action though. The Package expiry I think was this month but Hopefully I'll see something by morning.

 

[GoodTruble]

Yeast almost always pulls through. Just wait.

 

[hawkwing]

Yeast almost always pulls through. Just wait.

It's been 44 hours and not a sign of fermentation. I cooled the wart with my immersion cooler and I aerated for about an hour with an aquarium pump with sanitary filter and stainless diffusion stone. Not sure if I should aerate it more or not.

I'm going away for a week too. I got another pack today. Best before on the package is the 27th same as the other one. I busted the bubble pack at the shop and if it doesn't swell up I'm taking it back and asking for a refund. I got some Safale S-04 as a backup. I might have to load the keg in my car and take it with me.

 

[GoodTruble]

Ah, I didn't realize you were using liquid yeast. I always make a starter with liquid yeast to be sure and have a dry yeast backup plan. Good luck. Don't wait too long to get some yeast working.

 

[hawkwing]

I never had problems before. But that was from a different supplier and many years ago.