Guidance for newbie on brewing a simple "gateway" IPA?

[KW9375]

I've brewed a few batches now, following recipes from this site and my LHBS. However, I would like to start experimenting with making my own recipe...but I'm not sure the best place to start. I'm just beginning to acquire a taste for IPAs, and anything over about an 85 IBU is too bitter for me. I really like a local craft beer, the Community Mosaic IPA, because it is hoppy (85 IBU) but also balanced well with enough malts to soften the bitterness. I would like to brew something of my own that accomplishes the same thing - a decent amount of hoppiness, but enough maltiness to sort of ease you in to the bittering flavor. Make sense? What is the best way to start? Research descriptions of malts, hops, and yeast and then just grab a few that sound like they'd be a good combination and go for it? I've looked at the Beersmith software and tinkered around the add recipe part, but it's a bit overwhelming. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[benm1024]

Extract or all-grain?
For my go to IPA recipe I use...
14 lbs 2-row
.5 lbs cara-pils
.5 lbs white wheat
.5 lbs crystal 40
Then for the hops I switch it up a lot to try out different varieties. My last one was all citra and it turned out well, but you can play around with them, and this malt profile will let them shine through.
1 oz citra - mash hop
1 oz citra - FWH
2 oz citra - Flameout
2 oz citra - Hop stand
2 oz citra - dryhop

 

[KW9375]

Oh, sorry. Extract. Is your recipe for a 5 gallon batch? 15.5lbs of fermentables seems like a lot, but I'm a newbie, so I don't really know. I guess I should expect to see a decent amount of malts in a "balanced" IPA?

 

[chickypad]

What is the best way to start? Research descriptions of malts, hops, and yeast and then just grab a few that sound like they'd be a good combination and go for it?

I probably wouldn't recommend that route. I'd look around at some recipes in the database, or even kits from some of the vendors - many of them list the recipe on their site. I like my IPA grainbills pretty simple, one way I like of getting some malt backbone is to use Maris otter as a base or include some vienna or munich in the grainbill. I see that the beer you reference uses a blend of maris otter and domestic pale with a little crystal per their description. With extract you're a little more limited unless you're willing to buy the specialty extracts like maris otter, munich, etc. You might even consider this kit (recipe in the additional information). They make that specialty extract from maris otter, american 2-row and light crystal specifically as an IPA base, sounds just like what you're looking for. You definitely pay for it though, pretty pricey kit.

 

[Yooper]

I love this one, and still make it all the time: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/dogfish-head-60-minute-clone-ag-extract-25709/

The extract recipe is below the all-grain version.

It's not too bitter, but has nice hops flavor and aroma and most people like it.

 

[KW9375]

Chickypad, that Highrise IPA looks great! I've been looking at some recipes and I'm starting to see some similarities. My LHBS sells the mosaic hops, and I'd like to use that in my IPA. I'm going to keep digging around and taking notes and I'll throw something together as a starting point. I'll post it on here and see if I can get some feedback before I try to brew it. Thanks for your feedback!

 

[KW9375]

OK guys, I've put together this recipe. Again, this is the first time I've tried to create my own recipe, and I'm wanting a "starter (or gateway)" IPA with a decent amount of bitterness, but balanced out with enough maltiness to tone down the bitterness. Please critique!

Type: Extract (in 4 gallon pot on kitchen stove)
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Efficiency: 72.00 %
OG: 1.072
FG: 1.019
ABV: 7.0%
IBU: 50.6

10.00 g Gypsum
Steeping Grains
2 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine

Liquid Malt Extract
6 lbs 9.6 oz Pale Liquid Extract
3 lbs 4.8 oz Amber Liquid Extract

Hops
1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) - 60.0 min - 32.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra - 15.0 min - 15.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Saaz - 5.0 min - 2.0 IBUs

1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) - Dry Hop 3.0 Days

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

OK guys, I've put together this recipe. Again, this is the first time I've tried to create my own recipe, and I'm wanting a "starter (or gateway)" IPA with a decent amount of bitterness, but balanced out with enough maltiness to tone down the bitterness. Please critique!

Type: Extract (in 4 gallon pot on kitchen stove)
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Efficiency: 72.00 %
OG: 1.072
FG: 1.019
ABV: 7.0%
IBU: 50.6

10.00 g Gypsum
Steeping Grains
2 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine

Liquid Malt Extract
6 lbs 9.6 oz Pale Liquid Extract
3 lbs 4.8 oz Amber Liquid Extract

Hops
1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) - 60.0 min - 32.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra - 15.0 min - 15.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Saaz - 5.0 min - 2.0 IBUs

1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) - Dry Hop 3.0 Days

The only thing I would change is the bittering hop addition at 60 minutes. I would try to find a clean bittering hop (I like magnum, but there are several other types). You can use a comparatively small amount of Magnum to get the 32ish IBUs you're looking for from the 60 minute addition. Then you can save the remaining Magnum from the package (freezer) and use it for a future beer, frugal brewing.

Then you can take that 1oz of Mosaic that you were gonna use at 60 mintues, and use that at like 5 minutes, it shouldnt contribute a ton more IBUs and will help enforce the aroma/flavor youll get from the Mosaic dry hops. Otherwise the best advice is to have fun and experiment. I'm not an IPA person generally, but I REALLY REALLY REALLY like the red rye IPA I made with citra/mosaic late additions and dry hopped with mosaic and citra.

 

[chickypad]

I agree that you could increase your late additions and dry hop, makes sense to bitter with something else and save the mosaic. The saaz will probably be overwhelmed by the others. The other thing I notice is that's a lot of crystal, besides the 2.5 lb steeping there is some crystal in the amber LME - likely C-60. If you're going with the amber I'd probably cut the steeping crystal to 0.5 lb.

 

[rodwha]

Were it me I'd ditch the amber extract and use all pale, and reduce the crystal a bit as I'm guessing that's over 20% of your fermentables.

I really prefer to blend my crystal malts to give it a little more depth. For an IPA I usually give a 50/50 mix of C 20 and 40.

And as has been mentioned I'd up the late addition hops to add more flavor and aroma. As is (what I call an even hop schedule) it'll allow the bitter to stand out a bit more.

Some pale LME's are made with carapils such as Briess. Check and see if it's made with it before you add carapils.

What brew calculator are you using? And what yeast?

 

[rodwha]

I checked and found a LHBS near DFW area. Not sure if there are others, but they do sell LME by the pound, and so they may sell exact weights. And maybe they'll do the same with the grains.

http://www.txbrewing.com

 

[rodwha]

Oh, and why so much gypsum?

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

I missed that earlier with the crystal. I've moved from doing one chunk of the same crystal to using the same amount by weight, but splitting it up between 3-4 different crystals. I like a lot of crystal malts in my beer so take that at face value.

 

[KW9375]

I'm using Beermaster to calculate everything.
I'm not sure what yeast to use yet. Probably a dry yeast as I have not yet experienced with a starter.
I probably won't use gypsum. I only read somewhere that it helps bring out the hops flavor, but I don't really know the condition of the water I'm using, other than it's good quality tap water.
Texas brewing inc is my LHBS, and yes, they will sell specific weights.

Thank you all for your great advice! I'm learning a lot just reading your replies. What if, instead of replacing my 60min mosaic, I just add another ounce at flameout or with 5min left in boil? I think I want more of the mosaic flavors as opposed to a more generic or clean centennial. Also...I'm just beginning to have a taste for IPAs, but most IPAs are too bitter for me. So, I'm afraid of brewing something to hoppy yet. I understand the advice to increase the late hop additions, but I'm not sure that I WANT to, if that makes sense. I'm kinda hoping for a "mild" IPA, or a starter/gateway IPA to ease in to it.
Thanks guys!!

 

[rodwha]

Look up your water report.

My calcium is very low (38) and somewhere around 80-100 is more ideal, especially for bringing out hops.

For yeast I'd look for Fermentis US-05. It's great stuff!

Keep your IBU's in the lower realm, but take some away from the 60 min addition and split it between the flavor and aroma additions. This will give it a more flavorful taste.

 

[Yooper]

OK guys, I've put together this recipe. Again, this is the first time I've tried to create my own recipe, and I'm wanting a "starter (or gateway)" IPA with a decent amount of bitterness, but balanced out with enough maltiness to tone down the bitterness. Please critique!

Type: Extract (in 4 gallon pot on kitchen stove)
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Efficiency: 72.00 %
OG: 1.072
FG: 1.019
ABV: 7.0%
IBU: 50.6

10.00 g Gypsum
Steeping Grains
2 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine

Liquid Malt Extract
6 lbs 9.6 oz Pale Liquid Extract
3 lbs 4.8 oz Amber Liquid Extract

Hops
1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) - 60.0 min - 32.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra - 15.0 min - 15.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Saaz - 5.0 min - 2.0 IBUs

1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) - Dry Hop 3.0 Days

Please don't cross post the same thing in multiple threads. It makes it very confusing, and seemingly invalidates all of the other posts that have been made addressing the exact same recipe, the exact same questions, and the exact same concerns. People who take the time to read, respond, post, read the responses, think about it, and post an answer only to find the same thing in another location aren't inclined to answer again. Most of the time, we find them and try to combine, but this is a mess because this is an older thread, but yet you started a new thread with the same info and it will be really incomprehensible to combine them.

Thanks.

 

[Yooper]

Look up your water report.

My calcium is very low (38) and somewhere around 80-100 is more ideal, especially for bringing out hops.

For yeast I'd look for Fermentis US-05. It's great stuff!

Keep your IBU's in the lower realm, but take some away from the 60 min addition and split it between the flavor and aroma additions. This will give it a more flavorful taste.

Not so. Calcium is great for yeast health, but has nothing to do with the expression of hops.

 

[rodwha]

I reread what I had, and you are right. I'm not sure why I remembered it that way.

Is it then sulfate that helps? I see it just talks about bitterness accentuation.

 

[KW9375]

Oh ok, I'll see if I can pull up a report on our tap water.
Yooper, I'm sorry. I'm new here, and I didn't think about it that way, but you're right. I won't cross post again. I really appreciate all the comments and the time people have spent giving their feedback. No disrespect was intended. Thanks.

 

[Yooper]

I reread what I had, and you are right. I'm not sure why I remembered it that way.

Is it then sulfate that helps? I see it just talks about bitterness accentuation.

Yes. Sulfate is known to enhance a dry feeling, so it enhances bitterness, or rather the perception of bitterness from the bittering hops.

 

[KW9375]

OK, I've taken the feedback you guys have given me (which I really appreciate!), and I think I've come up with a recipe I'm happy to try out. I'm a little concerned the IBUs may be too high for my personal liking, but I'm hopeful that there's enough maltiness to offset the bitterness a little.
Question 1) Should I steep for 45min at 150-155?
Question 2) Is 3 days dry hopping enough? Thanks guys!

Type: Extract (3.5-4 gallons on kitchen stove)
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Est Original Gravity: 1.058 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.8 %
Bitterness: 64.3 IBUs
Est Color: 11.1 SRM

Steep
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter

LME
8 lbs Pale Liquid Extract - 60 min

Hops
2.00 oz Hallertau Magnum [4.10 %] - 60.0 min - 25.6 IBUs
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 15.0 mins)
1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - 15.0 min - 19.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - 5.0 min - 14.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - 3.0 min - 4.8 IBUs

Yeast
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 9 -

Dry Hops
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - 3.0 Days
1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - 3.0 Days

 

[rodwha]

20-30 mins is all a steep needs.

You cannot steep Maris Otter as it's a base grain like 2-row. It needs to be mashed.

3 days is OK for a dry hop. I do 7 and backed down from 10 as I've read that by then I've lost some of the aroma it gave.

Hallertau isn't generally a bittering hop used in IPA's.

I've generally mixed my hops together when using different types. Ie I'll split them evenly between the various flavor and aroma additions, but I don't think this is that common to do.

I'll dabble with what you have on Brewtoad and see what I come up with by subbing a little Citra or Mosaic to the bittering addition.

 

[KW9375]

In regards to not steeping Maris Otter...Yooper says "Yes, but............if you hold the grain at 150-155 degrees in the water (essentially a steep) for 45 minutes, that is a mash. No problem at all using maris otter or Munich malt that way. It's a good addition."

So maybe I should do 5-7 days dry hop?

The reason I chose Hallertau is just because my impression is that it is a neutral bitterness. BeerSmith says it's "extremely appropriate for early boil additions" and is used in IPAs. Is that not really true? Would Magnum be a better bittering hops for 60 min?

Thanks rodwha - I'm curious to see what you come up with!

 

[rodwha]

It would be a mash if you can maintain that temp range, though a mash is generally 60 mins or more from what I understand.

Others might very well say 3-4 days is optimal for a dry hop. I've gone from 14 to 10 to now 7 and not necessarily because I know something, but because I've read way more comments about 10 and more being a bit much.

I've not seen Hallertau combined with Magnum in the name. Maybe it's something I'm not familiar with, but the Hallertau hop is a noble hop grown in Germany. This is what MoreBeer says, though it may be different in that it has Mittlefrue (spl?) afterwards.

"A very nice mellow spicy hop with great flavor with citrus tones. Hallertau Mittelfruh is considered to be the highest grade Hallertau Noble hop available. Use this hop for all traditional lagers, belgian ales, or any European ales."

But I found similar descriptions for various Hallertau hops.

 

[rodwha]

Magnum is considered an ideal hop for bittering as is Warrior, but these go a long way as they are high in alpha acids (AAs).

I recently did a test batch using Warrior throughout a pale for every addition as I couldn't find anyone using it for anything other than bittering, though it does say it's similar to Columbus and would likely give a good flavor too, but with very muted aroma. My pale tastes like a Belgian pale for some reason though…

If you plan on brewing another batch fairly soon (month or so) you can save the left over portion for the next beer.

You can also move the typical bittering addition time from 60 mins to 40 or so. My recent IPA I did away with it altogether and my earliest hop time is 30 mins into the boil with a 30, 20, 10, and 5 min hop addition plus a dry hop to come.

 

[rodwha]

With a 3.5 gal boil and 2 gals top off I got this:

8 lbs Briess golden light LME (usually known as pale)
3/4 lb crystal 40
1/2 oz Citra @ 60 mins
1/2 oz Citra and 3/4 oz Mosaic @ 20 and 5 mins
1/2 oz Citra and Mosaic for 3-7 dry hop
US-05 yeast

1.060/1.012
6.3% ABV
57 IBU's
8 SRM (it will be darker as you'll be boiling the extract)

 

[rodwha]

The hop schedule I used for my IPA is wildly different than most everything I've seen. I first saw this on a British brewing forum I'm a member of. It doesn't seem quite so radical there.

As I'm looking for an extreme burst of flavor I decided to do this as it shouldn't give the perceived bitterness the hops lend.

20 mins is roughly the peak at which flavor is extracted from the hops.

 

[rodwha]

Did you look over your water report?

 

[KW9375]

So you think I should just throw out the steep altogether? I actually just looked at my LHBS website and they sell a Maris Otter LME (Muntons). What do you think about using 6lbs Briess golden light LME and 2lbs Maris Otter LME?

I haven't run across a hop schedule like that (Granted, I'm a noob), but that's interesting. What about a bittering hops?? Maybe at 57 IBUs, it's not even necessary??

I wasn't aware of the 20 minute peak on hops flavor extraction...good to know. That makes sense since everyone is in unison with their advice to do all flavor and aroma additions in the last 15 minutes of the boil.

I haven't looked at water report yet, but I'll try to find that now...

 

[KW9375]

I found the water report for Fort Worth, but it's a little overwhelming to look at since I don't really know what I'm looking for. The owner of my LHBS (www.txbrewing.com) says our tap water ranked in the top 3 in the nation for quality, so it's fine to brew with. For whatever that's worth. However, here is the report if you're interested in looking at it.
http://fortworthtexas.gov/uploadedFiles/Water/Drinking_Water/Water_Quality/WQR-English-2013Data.pdf