blkandrust
Well-Known Member
I am interested in the GF S40. The S40 uses a nema 6-15 plug. What adapter would I need to plug the nema into a 3 prong dryer outlet? Thanks in advance.
I am interested in the GF S40. The S40 uses a nema 6-15 plug. What adapter would I need to plug the nema into a 3 prong dryer outlet? Thanks in advance.
i laughed because it was the first time i've seen your sig....but let's see if @kartracer2 can help you like he did me!
Code doesn't require appliance cords to be rated for the same ampacity as the outlet for 15A and 20A 120V circuits. You can plug 16AWG cords into these outlets - you don't need 14AWG or 12AWG respectively. Code may require appliance cords to be rated differently for higher current, higher voltage circuits. Do you know if this is an actual requirement?@blkandrust First I'd like to make you aware that you dryer outlet is probably rated for 30 amps. You will need to replace the breaker (fuses?) to 15 amps because the cord & wiring of the GF are not rated for 30 A. A simple jumper cord set is not enough to be safe.
I am not aware of an "adapter" for your usage. You might have to buy a female cord end that mates to the end of your unit. You will also need a chunk of 12/3 rubber cord and a receptacle that matches the outlet. Wire accordingly. Another option is to replace the cord end on the GF to mate to the dryer outlet. (see above warning again)
Now I have a question for you, Will the dryer outlet need to remain usable for a dryer? If not you could replace the outlet and plug it in directly w/out any adapter setup. (same breaker swap will still be required)
Cheers,
Joel B.
6-20 and 6-15 are not inter-mateable. OP says the plug is 6-15, and the adapter you link is 6-20.@blkandrust I stand corrected,
https://www.amazon.com/10-30P-T-Blade-adapter-3-Prong-Adapter/dp/B081NNSFZS
Same breaker change required for proper protection.
Cheers,
Joel B.
No I do not.Do you know if this is an actual requirement?
The 10-30 is wired with a ground. Three wire dryers hijack the ground by using it for the 120V neutral as well as safety ground. Because of this, the frame of a dryer may be at a voltage slightly above ground, depending on wire run length and neutral current. My understanding is that code requires new construction to provide 4-wire outlets for dryers, so that neutral and ground are separated.it should be noted that the s40 instructions explicitly state not to use a nema 10-30r receptacle
View attachment 751081
Loads inherently self limit the current that can flow thru them. If they didn't, they would be shorts.I have worked with 480 v 3ph and down to "low voltage", I was always taught that you fuse to the load while staying under the current carrying capacity of the associated wiring. That is why I made the statements I did.
Oh and by the way, it isn't the voltage so much as the current that will kill you, (see "Van De Graph generator").
Cheers,
Joel B.
Not at all. Rated wire ampacities are very conservative. They are based on higher than room temp ambient, and in somewhat thermally insulated environments, with multiple wires running in close proximity. These represent worst case conditions.So @doug293cz , you are saying in this case, the cord going to the GF is the fuse? When plugged in it becomes part of the circuit correct? Is 14 AWG (or what ever is used, certainly not #10 AWG) good for 30 A. in this case? #14 AWG will carry more than 30A. or try to ,,,for a while, then it starts to let the smoke out of it. I guess I don't understand why fusing closer to the rated amperage of the appliance is not a good thing.
Cheers,
Joel B.
Yes I know about free air, conduit, trough, tray etc wire current capacity differences. Wire insulation type changes things in various environments also. This situation is not that. We are talking cheap rubber cord and a molded cord end.14 AWG in open air can carry 30A indefinitely without "letting out the smoke".
No, I wouldn't expect so either.Yes I know about free air, conduit, trough, tray etc wire current capacity differences. Wire insulation type changes things in various environments also. This situation is not that. We are talking cheap rubber cord and a molded cord end.
I would be willing to bet that if he hired an electrician to wire up that GF as a separate circuit, as it should actually be, he would not use #10 wire and a 30A breaker.
That is all.
Cheers,
Joel B.
This is a very important consideration. No ground wire connection on this outlet can be dangerous. You CAN NOT utilize a neutral path for ground. As this can result in an unsafe condition. Since the center pin on the NEMA 10-30 is connected to neutral Its a bad idea to use an adapter that will allow your ground connection on the GF to be connected to neutral.it should be noted that the s40 instructions explicitly state not to use a nema 10-30r receptacle
View attachment 751081
I didn't want to get into this discussion again. BUT, while its true that inside the panel the neutral and ground busses are bonded together. This should never be done outside the panel. The issue is that all the neutral wires are designed to carry current, its part of the circuit. The ground is never enegized except when its doing its job to protect you from a fault. The danger here is that on the grainfather the ground is going to be bonded to the metal of the device. If its connected to a neutral, then there is the potential for current to flow from the neutral to the skin of the grainfather. This can result in the user getting a shock.Man I really hate to add my opinion on this subject again but I would imagine that with when that outlet was probably installed, the neutral and the ground are bonded at the panel. That would make the neutral a grounded conductor at that outlet in a round about way. That's the way things were done years ago.
Cheers,
Joel B.
But you all be safe, even 120v kills.
As far as I know, new construction still includes a ground stake near the service entrance that is connected to the neutral buss in the panel. I believe this is to minimize the potential for neutral to be floating above local ground.Man I really hate to add my opinion on this subject again but I would imagine that with when that outlet was probably installed, the neutral and the ground are bonded at the panel. That would make the neutral a grounded conductor at that outlet in a round about way. That's the way things were done years ago.
Cheers,
Joel B.
@Brewski_59 I understand your point but I'm sure the dryer and probably electric range (if he has electric) uses this arrangement. (see photo). So the dryer is no more or less safe than his GF will be.
View attachment 751429
Again just my opinion.
Cheers,
Joel B.
I was making the point that there is no neutral conductor in an old dryer circuit, only an equipment grounding conductor. It does provide a safe path to ground. If the GF needs a neutral conductor it should not be connected to an old style dryer circuit and should have a four conductor cord end.Electrical safety is nothing to be cavalier about. I'm just pointing out the obvious flaw in the logic of using an adapter that ties the GF ground to a neutral conductor.
Well I'm going to retire my dead horse beating stick. In the interest of safety and sanity for all involved, my new position is the OP should hire a qualified licensed electrician and have him run a dedicated (up to current code) circuit to where he want's to use his shinny new GF. Please disregard any and all advice/opinions I have expressed or implied (or may have been misconstrued as cavalier) previously.
To the OP @blkandrust I hope when you get to use your new GF it produces a great product for years to come.
May you all have a good day.
Cheers,
Joel B.
Naw,@bracconiere That cute adapter would be used to allow a newer dryer cord to be used in an older style outlet. You are right about the dongle thing though. The adapter I linked to in post #6 would be closer to what the "OP"i think that little dongle thing is meant to be stuck into a ground on a 120v plug now that i think about it.....should solve all the problems? maybe?
Neutral wires, and ground wires both connect to the same place in the service panel (they are "bonded" in the service panel.) The only differences are:This is a very important consideration. No ground wire connection on this outlet can be dangerous. You CAN NOT utilize a neutral path for ground. As this can result in an unsafe condition. Since the center pin on the NEMA 10-30 is connected to neutral Its a bad idea to use an adapter that will allow your ground connection on the GF to be connected to neutral.
I didn't want to get into this discussion again. BUT, while its true that inside the panel the neutral and ground busses are bonded together. This should never be done outside the panel. The issue is that all the neutral wires are designed to carry current, its part of the circuit. The ground is never enegized except when its doing its job to protect you from a fault. The danger here is that on the grainfather the ground is going to be bonded to the metal of the device. If its connected to a neutral, then there is the potential for current to flow from the neutral to the skin of the grainfather. This can result in the user getting a shock.
A three wire dryer plug does provide a safe path to ground, except perhaps when it is actually used for a dryer that has internal 120V loads. The real issue is that you will not have a GFCI breaker on a three wire dryer circuit (because the dryer will trip it every time it is turned on), so it needs to be added externally. I made the GFCI point earlier in this thread.Electrical safety is nothing to be cavalier about. I'd have serious concerns using a dryer plug since it doesn't provide a safe path to ground, There is no GFCI protection, and it is specifically warned against by the manufacturer. Just because the dryer is connected in such a manner, the argument that its as safe with the GF isn't valid. There is a large amount of water being used while brewing beer. Modern dryer plugs include a separate path to ground. This bonding to neutral is no longer allowed in the current NEC, yet there is a grandfather clause for existing equipment such as your picture. I'm just pointing out the obvious flaw in the logic of using an adapter that ties the GF ground to a neutral conductor. Here is a good article discussing the changes, and reasons for them. Neutral and Grounded
All equipment grounding components should be bonded together. Driving a second ground rod and using it for equipment grounding is not allowed unless it is bonded to the rest of the equipment grounding system. It is possible to develop current potential between two separate grounding rods. The earth is not an approved or efficient conductor. It should not be depended on to carry enough current to trip a circuit breaker, which is the primary purpose of the equipment grounding system.don't sell a 3prong adaptrer, you can wire to ground rod?
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