Grain Mills

[kh54s10]

I realize it is not the real thing...

 

[Jayjay1976]

I realize it is not the real thing...

View attachment 568595

Yeah, it's missing the combine visual which sets up the cereal/serial dichotomy. I just want the box art on something wearable.

 

[kh54s10]

These days it seems that a lot of the time a great product is overshadowed/outpaced financially by the swag produced to promote the original product. It is a wonder why there is no Cereal Killer Mill swag.

 

[plepper]

I've used a Corona mill for about 2 yrs. now and had great beer from it. It's been modified like Wilserbrewers and couldn't be happier.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I've used a Corona mill for about 2 yrs. now and had great beer from it. It's been modified like Wilserbrewers and couldn't be happier.

I drive a ten year old nissan. I love it, I've had great times in it and couldn't be happier.
That is, until I test drove a BMW.
#WONTLOOKBACK

 

[bleme]

I drive a ten year old nissan. I love it, I've had great times in it and couldn't be happier.
That is, until I test drove a BMW.
#WONTLOOKBACK

You'll be lookin' back when you take the BMW to the shop

 

[wilserbrewer]

I drive a ten year old nissan. I love it, I've had great times in it and couldn't be happier.
That is, until I test drove a BMW.
#WONTLOOKBACK

Comparing the Corona mill to a ten year old a Nissan and the Cereal Killer to a BMW is a huge stretch imo.

I have both a corona and a kegco 3 roller, and after closely inspecting the crush from each side by side I can honestly say there ain’t much difference.

Anyways, the cereal killer / bmw comparison is ridiculous....the list price of the CK is way to low and the reliability is way too high!!!

 

[Toejam792]

I vote roller mill. I had a corona style but didn't like the grind. I bought a cereal killer and have been happy ever since. They go on sale sometimes for $90 and its totally worth the extra $70 in my book. I use a old 18v battery drill to grind my 10-15 gallon batches. 55 batches so far with cereal killer, probably over 1 ton of grain and still going strong.

 

[Yambor44]

Thanks guys. Just getting back into all grain after a year or so off. Ordered the Cereal Killer just now. I had a Barley Crusher for many years and though it always worked, I did get some slipping and even some binding from time to time. Hoping the ball bearing setup will fix that aspect. Cheers.

 

[jabba11]

honestly I have a barley crusher. Ive had it for probably 5 years and have run maybe thousands of pounds of grain through it. Ive had to tinker with it a time or two. I keep it clean. the rollers are showing some signs of wear. Ive always been happy with it but for the money these days id probably buy a CK.

 

[WinterWarlock]

Corona Mill user here. In my experience, shredded husks have not been an issue. The trashy looking setup might be a turnoff, but the quality of the crush is good. Just offering my experience. For anyone who shouldn't be blowing more money on gear, the corona will get you in the game of buying bulk sacks of malt, which is the only way to go in my opinion. Keep crushing, my dudes!

 

[mashinary]

I had a Barley Crusher for years and finally wore down knurling on the rollers. I went with the Cereal Killer this time.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Cereal killer is the best balance in quality to price for the average, dedicated home brewer. I get it, Corona mills can definitely get the job done. Its just like how people keep telling me I need to upgrade to a wilser bag, but I stubbornly stick with disposable paint strainer bags. Some people just can't be helped!

 

[mongoose33]

Cereal killer is the best balance in quality to price for the average, dedicated home brewer. I get it, Corona mills can definitely get the job done. Its just like how people keep telling me I need to upgrade to a wilser bag, but I stubbornly stick with disposable paint strainer bags. Some people just can't be helped!

I feel the same way. It's the nice, affordable, usable, middle-value mill. It will get the job done and do it in a reasonably timely fashion.

I'm an empty-nester so I can afford equipment that 20 years ago would never have even been on the radar. But if one can afford a bit more than a corona mill, the CK is, to me, what fills that bill.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Some people just can't be helped!

I agree completely, Some people just can't be helped.

corona type mills shred grain while roller mills crush it. Husks remain intact. Rotary mills result in powdered husks ending up in the boil and in the fermenter, which is not a good thing. It's not only an opinion, it is a fact that rotary grinders pulverize husks. Pulver is the german word for powder BTW. Corona mills are fine, just know what it is that they do to grain and husks and be prepared for the permanent impact this will have on the flavor of your beer.

Waxing on about corona mills creating too much powder or pulver, and fearing permanent impact it will have on your beer. All mills break some husks and create flour, nothing remains "intact" lol.

Its just like how people keep telling me I need to upgrade to a wilser bag, but I stubbornly stick with disposable paint strainer bags. Some people just can't be helped!

Then you choose to filter your mash with a cheap a$$ paint strainer bag that is about 4X too coarse for BIAB, JMO, and welcome a crap load of particulate in your wort, forming "mud" in your fermenter, an actual brewing term...Some people just can't be helped...lol and cheers!

So I guess what I'm hearing is, "The pulver from a corona mill is bad, but the pulver from the Cereal Killer is OK, so I just use a coarse paint strainer bag and welcome the pulver and flour from my Cereal Killer in my boil kettle."

 

[Jayjay1976]

I agree completely, Some people just can't be helped.


Waxing on about corona mills creating too much powder or pulver, and fearing permanent impact it will have on your beer. All mills break some husks and create flour, nothing remains "intact" lol.


Then you choose to filter your mash with a cheap a$$ paint strainer bag that is about 4X too coarse for BIAB, JMO, and welcome a crap load of particulate in your wort, forming "mud" in your fermenter, an actual brewing term...Some people just can't be helped...lol and cheers!

So I guess what I'm hearing is, "The pulver from a corona mill is bad, but the pulver from the Cereal Killer is OK, so I just use a coarse paint strainer bag and welcome the pulver and flour from my Cereal Killer in my boil kettle."

You've cornered me, thank you for the outside perspective. I had no idea the mesh was too large.
And I am familiar with the "mud" of which you speak.

 

[toddo97]

You've cornered me, thank you for the outside perspective. I had no idea the mesh was too large.
And I am familiar with the "mud" of which you speak.

Do you notice any off flavors from it? I use a biab bag, but now I need to check the reviews of it to see if the mesh is too big!

 

[rondemay]

What would the proper RPM of a direct drive motor be? Do these motors have to be geared down or would most fractional horsepower motors work just fine? Also, I have a kitchenaid stand mixer and those have a mill attachment, anyone tried one of those?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Ideally, I’ve heard best to spin a mill at 2/300 rpm.

I believe some motors have internal gear reduction, and some have added a second device for gear reduction. My simple and easy opinion is that a 1/2” slow speed drill fits the bill and is ready to use off the shelf and can be mounted for hands free operation. Some like a permanent mounted motor.

Kitchen aid mills are pretty small, and are more suited to smaller batches of grains, not so much repeated use doing 10-12 lbs of grist.

I also feel that it would be overuse of an expensive machine that’s operating beyond its designed capacity. Jmo

 

[mongoose33]

Ideally, I’ve heard best to spin a mill at 2/300 rpm.

The LODO site suggests as low as possible, targeting a rate of 100rpm or less. My Am Aleworks motor is geared down to 180rpm, which seems fine. The LODO site also suggests conditioning the grain, I think in part to ensure as little husk tearing as possible. I don't do that, it doesn't seem to matter with my mill that much.

That said, I've never compared the results (after mashing) of a crush like I'm doing now and before I bought it, when I used my Barley Crusher run by a drill that was going...well, pretty fast. I had to run it fast because it would bog down. I also ran a pretty narrow gap (.020) which had something to do with it. My current (3 roller Monster Mill) has the gap set at .035.

 

[beerbomb]

Thanks for the info, I should run my drill a little slower.
How do you condition grain?
Can you show a pic of what the ideal crush should look like?

 

[wilserbrewer]

More than you ever want to know about grain crush including pics...

http://brewlikeapro.net/maltmilling.html

 

[wilserbrewer]

Just an aside, the “ideal” crush is one that works well with your luater system...

People have different needs so ideal crush can vary....

While simple BIAB brewers might crush finer, recirculating brewers may prefer coarser for better flow blah blah blah

Crush till your scared....nothing worse than under crush and piss poor efficiency making near beer lol

 

[mongoose33]

Here's a crush from a brew I did:

You can see intact husks from the barley, some larger pieces of the internal seed, and some but not a ton of flour. This is a good crush.

Here's a crush a friend of mine got at a LHBS. Some of the barley is broken, but most is not affected. This is a terrible crush, and needs to be run through again, and perhaps the mill gap shunk.

How long and what kind of conversion efficiency you achieve is dependent on a lot of things: mash temp, thickness of grist, whether you stirred or not (I do at 15- and 30-minutes), fineness of the crush, the water composition (pH, e.g.).

I used to crush w/ my barley crusher at a .020 gap; very fine flour, mostly, some larger chunks. Typically I'd have up to 90 percent conversion after about 15 minutes. I was doing BIAB.

Now I use a different mill, gap at .035. The particles are larger, and it takes longer for all the starch to gelatinize in the mash--but it still gets there, just takes longer. I'm somewhat a believer that in addition to converting starch we're also extracting flavors in the mash, so going a full hour or even 75 minutes is a standard practice for me.

The Low Oxygen folks argue that one doesn't want flour in the grist, or as little as possible. The theory, as I understand it, is those smaller particles are more subject to oxidation and thus flavor degradation. The argument makes sense, though back when I was doing BIAB and a very fine crush, I made some pretty great beers. I've been employing low-oxygen techniques myself, trying to see if those methods will produce a noticeable great-leap-forward. I've had some success, but I'm not ready to endorse the approach generally. It's a fiddly process, one that lengthens the brew day, and until I see a noticeable improvement in the beer over what I was doing.......that said, I've seen some improvement, but also struggled with some elements of it. Jury? Still out for me.

 

[wilserbrewer]

That “non crush” that your friend got at a LHBS is pathetic.

Truly a shame that someone would send a customer out the door with that only to waste time and effort trying to brew with it.

 

[LittleRiver]

You're going to need gearing to get the RPM down and the torque up.

This drill has double gear reduction and speed control. It works quite well. My mill gap is .025", and the drill can cold start no problem with a pre-filled hopper.

 

[Yambor44]

Just now used my new CK mil set at .025. Using the High Gravity recirculating BIAB setup. I keep getting a stuck sparge. This happened last time as well with an all grain kit from my local brew shop who claims to crush at .035 (single pass).

Any thoughts on how to correct this? I would assume a coarser grind but I keep reading posts about finer grinds for BIAB. Are these folks not recirculating?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Coarser crush or throttle the pump down with a valve?

 

[LittleRiver]

... mil set at .025... recirculating BIAB setup....stuck sparge.... I keep reading posts about finer grinds for BIAB. Are these folks not recirculating?

I seem to fit the profile of your question. I BIAB, I mill at .025, I do not recirculate, and I do not get stuck sparges.

I don't get stuck sparges because I don't sparge. Why would I want to sparge when I get 80+% efficiency without sparging?

Why would I bother with the expense & hassles of recirculation when I get great results without it?

Some people bring up clarity, but I get great results with a cold crash. If I wanted even more clarity I would add gelatin to my process before I'd add recirculation. But I don't need either, my clarity is fine without them.

If I did a bunch of step mashing then I might consider a recirculation system. But I don't.

There is a lot to be said for elegant simplicity. My brew days are so easy, and so enjoyable, and the beer is great.

 

[Yambor44]

Coarser crush or throttle the pump down with a valve?

I guess I'll try coarser crush before I abandon the recirculation. I do have a ball valve at the exit side of the pump (which I added at the direction of High Gravity Brewing) and I was throttling back 50-60%.