Grain miller, how important is it?

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deuc224

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Hey all, Im just getting started in this venture of homebrewing and have been reading a lot about grain mills. I really dont like to half ass anything i do in life so i went all in with the best i can get to start this. Question now is grain mill, ive read about all the mills out and the new ones coming out like maltzilla. Cereal killer looks interesting as well as the shop specials they have from each site like more beer has, but is it worth it to just plunge for a monster mill 3 roller? Already decided i dont want a 2 roller machine but the heat treated aspect is still in play. Or will the $99 cereal killer get me where i want to be just fine for years to come? Really need input on this, budget isnt really a factor but i dont want to spend on something i dont get full use out of like my dillon 1050 collecting dust since i bought it :(

Thanks guys
 
I can't speak for the more expensive mills, but I bought a Cereal Killer a little over a year ago when I moved to BIAB. It's been fantastic. I mill at the finest setting, and I've had no problems with it. You can usually get it in the $85 price range with since sales are easy to find. A lot of people have used it for years, and it's still kicking.

Having said that, I'm curious to see the pricing on the new Kegland motorized mill. Depending on the price (and Kegland typically has good pricing), it might be the way to go.
 
Thanks Matt, I should have said that im also a eBIAB person also. Its a tough decision because its a buy once cry once situation.
 
I agree totally. i have had my mill for over 8 years and i even have rigged a motor on it as i have been doing 15gal batches so it mills 25 to 40lbs or more every time i brew and never had a problem. i use a 3 vessel herms system and having control over your crush is important as it is with biab. im sure you would be happy with the cereal killer. i have debating upgrading to new mill but have no reason as it gets the job done just fine.
 
I have a Barley Crusher, which isn't liked much on here, although I haven't had the problems others have described. I still wouldn't recommend it purely because you can get a Cereal Killer cheaper and without the problems others have experienced.

The one thing I would recommend is to look into motorizing your mill or using a drill. Whether you get one that has a motor or add one later it's a good investment in my opinion. Much more convenient than hand cranking.

I use a slow speed drill with my Barley Crusher but when I get to the point of replacing the mill it will be motorized. The drill works well enough but I can definitely see how a motor would be easier.
 
Cereal killer is a good value piece of equipment. I own one as well. There's no need to spend much more on a basic piece of equipment like a mill.

Now, if you don't like to half-ass anything, then be aware that gear doesn't make the beer - the brewer does. Well, the brewer and the yeast together!

A skilled brewer can make great beer on the most primitive equipment. It's your knowledge and experience that will eventually make you a skilled brewer. So even more than what you purchase, don't half-ass the reading, learning, and practice parts of brewing.

Perhaps that's obvious, but I find that for many people, and in many disciplines, it's far easier to acquire things than it is to acquire skill!
 
Ah ok, that was a point I didnt think of. Motorizing it for future use is important now that i think about it.
 
McKnuckle said:
Cereal killer is a good value piece of equipment. I own one as well. There's no need to spend much more on a basic piece of equipment like a mill.

Now, if you don't like to half-ass anything, then be aware that gear doesn't make the beer - the brewer does. Well, the brewer and the yeast together!

A skilled brewer can make great beer on the most primitive equipment. It's your knowledge and experience that will eventually make you a skilled brewer. So even more than what you purchase, don't half-ass the reading, learning, and practice parts of brewing.

Perhaps that's obvious, but I find that for many people, and in many disciplines, it's far easier to acquire things than it is to acquire skill!
Click to expand...
This i will keep close, I look at this like cooking. Trial and error is part of learning and i always educate myself on what i get into, I appreciate this advice a lot.
 
If I had a budget of $400 to start over with homebrewing equipment, I would budget $100 for a grain mill. Maybe if I had a shop close by with an excellent selection of grains for a low price and a mill that I was happy with, I would put it off.

When I first got my grain mill it was a significant improvement in the consistency of my lauter process and efficiency. Now that I do BIAB, I am able to control my grain crush to match BIAB.

I also feel that one of the steps from good beer to great beer is with with quality ingredients that are appropriate to the style. I like Briess products for my beers, but if you are looking to create a quality German Pilsner, Belgian Saison, or English Mild, it is hard to get there if your local shop just has bins of Briess products. I tend to buy bags of quality base malts and mix my suppliers of specialty malts between some local shops and MoreBeer.

Shops around me tend to sell base grains by the pound for around $2 to $2.25, where I can get a 55 lb bag of a quality European malt for around $65, or around $1.20 per lb. Two bags and I have saved enough to pay for a mill.
 
Got cereal killer and my efficiency skyrocketed. I don’t mind cranking 3-5 min for the 7-14.5lbs 5 gal brews I do. Maybe in the future I may try a drill. I have one already.
 
Damn thanks you guys. That settles it, ill order it today, was looking at the crankenstein also, but ill get that when i start brewing more often.
 
Milling your own grain (Cereal Killer) is just about a requirement for BIAB!

The store-crushed grains are not correct for BIAB!
 
Echoing all the great advice you've received so far and I'll add my two cents: Definitely get your own grain mill. One of the keys to brewing is consistency and dialing in your equipment and process. If you don't have a consistent crush, you won't have a consistent efficiency and your brewing will be all over the map. I've found that the crush from my local home-brew shop was as variable as the weather.

As for the type of mill, keep it simple. I fought to try to make fancy three-roller mills work and it was just not worth the hassle. A basic two-roller mill (like the Cereal Killer) is fine. I went with a two-roller Monster Mill 150 batches ago and have never looked back.
 
This is what your grain should look like for BIAB.
4993A861-8E4A-4C9D-A48D-56B20FDA44F8.jpeg
D3DB3E90-ADAB-4517-B623-9727D2A98DDB.jpeg
 
After you get the cereal killer dialed in, look into conditioning your grain. Those two steps will yield solid, replicable results.
 
if you don't want to do a half measure, definitely go ahead and motorize it now. There are a number of different options. I went with a surplus gear motor and use spider couplings - pulleys and large sprockets scare me, so I really like the compact nature of what I have. I even have it wall mounted over my mash tun, and just hinge it down when I need to mill the grain.

The motor with a consistent RPM will help with consistency. hand cranking and drills will operate at variable RPMs. I just flip a switch and it goes for me, which is great.
 
deuc224 said:
Hey all, Im just getting started in this venture of homebrewing and have been reading a lot about grain mills. I really dont like to half ass anything i do in life so i went all in with the best i can get to start this. Question now is grain mill, ive read about all the mills out and the new ones coming out like maltzilla. Cereal killer looks interesting as well as the shop specials they have from each site like more beer has, but is it worth it to just plunge for a monster mill 3 roller? Already decided i dont want a 2 roller machine but the heat treated aspect is still in play. Or will the $99 cereal killer get me where i want to be just fine for years to come? Really need input on this, budget isnt really a factor but i dont want to spend on something i dont get full use out of like my dillon 1050 collecting dust since i bought it :(

Thanks guys
Click to expand...
I have the Northern Brewer Hill Buster badged version of the CK. It works great for me and cost $85 last summer.

BTW a Dillion is a terrible to thing to waste.
 
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Fendersrule, thanks fro that picture, Im a visual person so that will help a lot

Tellyho, Are you talking about soaking the grains for a few minutes? I think ive read a smidget about that somewhere, ill look into it though if it gives me more batch to batch consistency.

Gnef, could you throw up a pic of ur set up? I looked into motorizing it and came up with this motor to use
https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/worm-drive-motor-12v-24v-200w-180-rpm-20nm-torque.html
Wondering how to mount it up cuz it doesnt look like the stainlesss rod is keyed.

Bracconiere, thanks for feeding(pun intended) my other hobby lol

Saunassa, tell me about it, I need to set it up already, had it for about 5 years with one round made.
 
deuc224 said:
Tellyho, Are you talking about soaking the grains for a few minutes? I think ive read a smidget about that somewhere, ill look into it though if it gives me more batch to batch consistency.
Click to expand...

Don't soak the grains. Use a spray bottle to mist the grain. Spray the top stir, spray a little more. You just want to slightly dampen the husk so that it will crack into a few pieces instead of splintering into many pieces when milled.
 
Here is my grain mill setup. This is a picture of it hinged up on the wall so you can see the underside with the motor, spider couplings, and the mill itself:
49673340223_3c14fdaccd_c.jpg


I just let it down, so you can see how it is when I am crushing grain with it:
49673882401_5ddc173ef7_c.jpg


I have it on a wall switch, so I just switch it on, dump my grain, and I can go do other things while the grain is milling. I really like this setup. I have wanted a 3 roller mill, but I can't justify it considering how well my current setup works for me.
 
deuc224 said:
Fendersrule, thanks fro that picture, Im a visual person so that will help a lot

Tellyho, Are you talking about soaking the grains for a few minutes? I think ive read a smidget about that somewhere, ill look into it though if it gives me more batch to batch consistency.

Gnef, could you throw up a pic of ur set up? I looked into motorizing it and came up with this motor to use
https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/worm-drive-motor-12v-24v-200w-180-rpm-20nm-torque.html
Wondering how to mount it up cuz it doesnt look like the stainlesss rod is keyed.

Bracconiere, thanks for feeding(pun intended) my other hobby lol

Saunassa, tell me about it, I need to set it up already, had it for about 5 years with one round made.
Click to expand...

Unless you’re going to crush 16+++ pounds I wouldn’t care too much about motorizing right away. I think many here are very lazy if they complain about crushing 7-15 lbs. Get the crusher and just use it.
 
My Makita drill in impact mode makes quick and consistent work. Obviously you don't run it at full speed, but if you run it at low speed, it makes quick good work of it.

A motor-driven system is way cool, but IMO you'd have to be making lots and lots of beer for it to be worth while. Yet another thing that consumes space.
 
Alex4mula said:
Unless you’re going to crush 16+++ pounds I wouldn’t care too much about motorizing right away. I think many here are very lazy if they complain about crushing 7-15 lbs. Get the crusher and just use it.
Click to expand...

I consistently crush more than that, even for 5 gallon batches (my 5 gallon barleywine uses almost #45!). Also, in my mind, it isn't about the laziness factor, it is about getting a consistent and predictable crush. Different speeds at the same gap setting will produce a different grist, so an undulating RPM will produce a more inconsistent crush as compared to a motor at a fairly constant RPM.

fendersrule said:
My Makita drill in impact mode makes quick and consistent work. Obviously you don't run it at full speed, but if you run it at low speed, it makes quick good work of it.

A motor-driven system is way cool, but IMO you'd have to be making lots and lots of beer for it to be worth while. Yet another thing that consumes space.
Click to expand...

I would recommend not running your drill in impact mode. Hammer drills impact along the axis of rotation, rather than torsionally with the rotation (as an impact driver does for driving screws). The reason why I could see this being problematic in the long run is for the bearings or bushings, as well as alignment of the side plates. The rollers in the mill are only designed to turn, not move along the axis.

Now, running your mill off an impact driver would be an interesting experiment, but since nearly all of them are 1/4" hex, you would need one of those chuck adapters to try it.

As far as space is concerned, I find my motorized mill being wall mounted takes up very little space. I bring it down when I need to crush, and then put it back up. I never have to move it around, and it is always where I need it. I know not everyone can set up their system like that, but if it can work for you, I'd highly recommend it, it has worked out great for me.

Given the OP's mentality with purchasing, my intuition says that he will be happier setting up a motorized mill as a full measure rather than doing a half measure now and then having to change it later on. My intuition may be wrong though.
 
gnef said:
I consistently crush more than that, even for 5 gallon batches (my 5 gallon barleywine uses almost #45!). Also, in my mind, it isn't about the laziness factor, it is about getting a consistent and predictable crush. Different speeds at the same gap setting will produce a different grist, so an undulating RPM will produce a more inconsistent crush as compared to a motor at a fairly constant RPM.
....
Click to expand...

That is why I said unless you will crush more than 16++lbs. Personally I really doubt anyone will notice a difference in a beer crushed rotated manually versus with a drill. What is really important and very noticeable will be the crush thickness used.
 
Alex4mula said:
That is why I said unless you will crush more than 16++lbs. Personally I really doubt anyone will notice a difference in a beer crushed rotated manually versus with a drill. What is really important and very noticeable will be the crush thickness used.
Click to expand...

If a mill is set to a certain gap (distance between rollers) it should make ZERO difference whether it is driven manually or with a motor.
 
kh54s10 said:
If a mill is set to a certain gap (distance between rollers) it should make ZERO difference whether it is driven manually or with a motor.
Click to expand...
If I remember correctly, the speed does make a difference, and is one reason why just telling someone your gap setting is not sufficient in most cases other than a general idea. If you run the rollers faster, I believe you generally need a wider gap (it has been a long while since I did all this research - I setup my mill over a decade ago!).

Ultimately, you need to figure out the best settings for the grist that you want, which will take some trial and error (run a few ounces of grain through, see how it looks, make one change, repeat). In my opinion, the more variables you can keep constant, the better the consistency, and your ability to fine tune your system for the performance you want. We may not all have the same goals when it comes to these things though.
 
gnef said:
If I remember correctly, the speed does make a difference, and is one reason why just telling someone your gap setting is not sufficient in most cases other than a general idea. If you run the rollers faster, I believe you generally need a wider gap (it has been a long while since I did all this research - I setup my mill over a decade ago!).

Ultimately, you need to figure out the best settings for the grist that you want, which will take some trial and error (run a few ounces of grain through, see how it looks, make one change, repeat). In my opinion, the more variables you can keep constant, the better the consistency, and your ability to fine tune your system for the performance you want. We may not all have the same goals when it comes to these things though.
Click to expand...

You are right, speed does make a difference. But set up properly, including speed, there should be no difference.
 

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