Goseface Killah

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Jmoney

Active Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2012
Messages
31
Reaction score
3
Location
Avon
Recipe Type
Extract
Yeast
WLP036 Düsseldorf Alt
Yeast Starter
1L
Batch Size (Gallons)
5
Original Gravity
1.050
Final Gravity
1.014
Boiling Time (Minutes)
15
IBU
not much
Color
varies
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
14 days at 66F
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
4 weeks on fruit (optional)
Tasting Notes
citrusy lactic sour, hint of coriander and salt
Much like the IPA craze in years past, it seems to me that everyone and their momma's making a gose these days. I suppose that's good to get the sour word out but quite frankly I think most of them suck. I admit I'm a snob, but I like my gose to be real sour...yes that may not be true to style, but hey, here in America we like to kick it up a notch. Our IPAs are hop bomps, our Russians would manage to kill even Rasputin, and the goses I like are tart enough to put hair on your chest. (disclaimer: I still don't have chest hair). This recipe is a bit complicated, but it allows us extract brewers to make a gose with all the complex lactic goodness that you can't get from a weak lacto culture...by growing your own culture. This recipe (and fruit variants) have won a handful of ribbons for me, including a 2nd BOS at the 2015 NERHC out of 443 entries for a raspberry variety.

You will need:
3# Pilsen or extra light DME
3# Wheat DME
handful of fresh uncrushed 2-row (let's call it 4 oz)
2L flask with airlock
couple bottles of unflavored or lemon-lime seltzer

initial lacto starter:

1. Make a typical 2L starter. let cool and add your uncrushed grains. Open a bottle of seltzer, pour in 4-6 oz, and then cap with an airlock. I got this idea from the Bear Flavored homebrew blog. I hear the man is brewing at Kent Falls in CT and I think his stuff is pretty damn good, btw. The purpose of this is to knock out most of the oxygen to avoid growing crap you don't want (i.e. Acinetobacter).

2. Try to keep that starter at 90-100F. Again, this is to try to get Lactobacillus species to grow and not that other crap (i.e. Clostridium). I put it in a giant cooler in the bathtub and use hot water as needed to maintain the temp as close as possible.

3. Hopefully within 24 hours you will get activity and when you smell that activity it will smell nice, with tart, citrusy, bready notes. (I have done this 4 times in the past year with no problems). Give it a couple days and then you are ready to proceed to the next step. If you're not sure, pour yourself a sample. Should be nice, sour, and clean.


3 gallons of sour:

1. Make 2.5 gallons of wort using 1# Pilsen DME and 1# Wheat DME. Cool and add to a carboy; I use a 3 gallon carboy for this. Dump the entire 2L starter into the carboy, straining out the grains. Top off with a splash of seltzer and top with an airlock.

2. Keep at 90-100F as much as possible. I use a big cooler but unfortunately this is not big enough to close over the entire carboy. So it cools off during the day, and I crank it back up after work. Not a big deal. I let it sour for 4-5 full days. If you like less sour, then let it go for 2-3 days. Note: some moderate funky notes start to appear after a day or two. Haven't had any problems in the final result, but I know how much brewers love sniffing airlocks and worrying about it. (been there, done that).


finally, brew day:

boil the entire 3 gallon starter in your typical brewpot and add the remaining 4# DME. Note: I don't know what proteins and crap are in that lacto carboy, but whatever is in there will foam like the dickens when the boil starts. You've been warned.

15 min boil with 1 oz. Hallertau and 2 tsp. yeast nutrient.

Add 0.5 oz crushed coriander seed and 1 oz. salt with 3 minutes left. I have been using Himalayan pink salt if you must know but I doubt it makes a big difference unless you're using road salt or some super smoky alderwood-planked salmon salt. Note: I learned the hard way that the oil from coriander seed can also cause a boil-over.

Ferment at 66F or so for 2 weeks with regular alt yeast. FG has ranged from 1.013-1.016 for me. Bottle condition at 2.5-3 volumes or so.

This goes well with fruit too! I wash fresh (ripe) fruit, cut up into chunks as appropriate, freeze, and then put the frozen chunks into a sanitized paint strainer bag. I rack the gose onto the fruit and let it go 3-4 weeks before bottling. Note: there may be some wild yeasts on the fruit, I don't pay much attention to them. Doesn't seem to affect the product but then again I don't have any bottles lying around long enough to tell if there may be bad flavors say 5 months later. So far I've used strawberries (4#) and raspberries (3#).

goseberry.jpg
 
Sorry for the newbie question...can you describe the steps in making "a typical 2L starter" for your initial lacto starter?
 
dissolve 6 oz. DME in 2L water and boil lightly for 15 min. (I use a clean saucepan and transfer the cooled liquid into the flask. for regular Saccharomyces you can dramatically increase the amount of yeast grown with a stirplate but for this purpose we want to exclude oxygen. pitching proper amounts of fresh healthy yeast and managing the fermentation temp are probably the biggest factors in helping a beginner brewer make much better quality beer, in my opinion. mrmalty.com has more in-depth info on basic yeast starters and the articles are certainly worth a read.
 
I'm new to sours. Just to confirm you boil the entire bacterial brewed batch? I assume this would stop any more bacterial fermentation at this point. Then the alt yeast takes over. This is just backwards from some of the other recipes Ive seen that start with a yeast and then they introduce the wild stuff when racking to secondary. Seems like your way would better control the funk. Can't wait to try.
 
yes, that way you only have alt yeast finishing up the fermentation. gose is typically a lactobacillus-soured beer with a quick turnaround, which is probably why it's so popular with breweries these days. this is different than most of the barrel-aged "wild ales" that utilize brett and pediococcus for funk and acidity, respectively, which take much more time for proper maturation. note that this gose should not have much funk at all since there is no added brett (although gose with brett is an intriguing idea). I do get a trace of funky notes from the lacto starter...no way to tell if that's from the lacto itself or maybe a few other organisms that grew along as well. either way they all get boiled off.

I went this route for souring after hearing repeated stories about how commercial lacto cultures didn't produce enough acidity when added with the regular sacc yeast. (and the potential for ongoing fermentation after bottling in that case). and no sense in spending $8+ for lacto when you can easily grow your own...
 
One last question...I am to the 3 gallon sour phase and everything has been great so far...on brew day, you said pour all of the sour and boil. After cooling should I treat this as normal extract brewing where I would add 2 gallons to the fermenter...or is this just a 3 gallon batch. Thanks for the help...really looking forward to this!
 
yes total volume is 5 gallons in the fermenter. boil should have killed off all bacteria, so now just add whichever strain of regular saccharomyces you like. I use an alt yeast but I'm sure it'll be similar with any clean strain.
 
I think it would be very easy to do this all-grain, basically just use equal parts pilsner and wheat malt to get to the OG of 1.050. There are many programs/websites out there that can calculate the amount of grain, hops, etc to use. I believe all-grain brewers have many other options for souring the beer in this case and would direct you to the sour beer blog; they have several articles on souring wort which is specifically applicable to berliners and goses. http://sourbeerblog.com/fast-souring-lactobacillus/ I am of course not well-versed in AG brewing (someday I will make the switch...well, probably) but one option would be to grow your own 2L Lacto starter from grain (use any DME) which would allow you to verify that in fact you grew out what you wanted to...and then use that to inoculate your sour wort.

I'm just a lowly extract/partial mash brewer and I have to undertake all these steps to produce my desired product!
 
Wheat DME isn't actually 100% wheat. It's more like 65:35 wheat and malted barley. Both Briess and Munton's are this ratio at least. To stay true to the original recipe, you'd probably want 67.5% pilsner and 32.5% wheat.
 
I brewed this and while it is very good, I am wondering if I messed up on the salt measurement...seems a bit salty. I wonder if my scale was off since it seems more salty than any Gose I have had.
 
this may be saltier than the few goses still being brewed in Germany. I assume your batch was a full 5 gallons? what kind of salt did you use? once I added 1.25 oz of salt and that extra 0.25 oz crossed my threshold into "too salty" range.
 
I used the pink Himalayan as suggested...had some in the pantry. On a good note, my wife who doesn't generally like beer really thinks this is tasty. I'm having some neighbors over who really like goses...that will be a good test.
 
Question regarding the fruit addition: do you let it ferment the full two weeks then rack to secondary with 3-4 weeks on the fruit, or sooner?
 
I usually ferment it 7-14 days without the fruit, and then 3-4 weeks on fruit. That being said I don't see a good reason why you couldn't toss the fruit into the primary fermenter; I've always just done the fruit in secondary.
 
Sweet, just got this into my primary so I'll try for secondary this go around. On an unrelated side note, I used Wyeast 1007 (German Ale) in my batch. Took about 48 hours before it really took off but now it's gurgling away happily. Thought I'd post that tidbit here and save anyone else that goes that route in the future the anxiety I went through. Can't wait til this one's ready to drink!
 
so I did some thinking about the salt level of this recipe. Personally I like it at 1 oz per 5 gallon batch but I have received some feedback (mostly from beer judges) that it's too salty. a few really seemed offended, as if I had poured a box of road salt down their throats. waterboarding with salty gose...saltboarding?

anyway, none of my friends have really commented on the salt level and the one true beer snob amongst my friends requests even more salt. (I say beer snob facetiously, and mean it to refer to any casual drinker who really enjoys drinking a wide variety of quality beers. I do consider myself one as well).

I think salt level is really a personal preference. none of us were around when the historical goses were being brewed in Goslar / Leipzig and all we have to go by are the few remaining goses being brewed in Germany. Now these all popped up relatively recently so who knows for sure if these approximate the goses from several hundred years ago...or if perhaps they varied too with regards to salinity.

So I would suggest people to salt this up as much or as little as they like. I would recommend 0.5-1 oz (or more) based on tastes. if you think most commercial goses aren't salty enough, aim for closer to 1 oz. and if you develop high blood pressure in the future I will deny any involvement. cheers!
 
There's a brewery here in Halifax that have a beer called this too. It's amazing but the salinity is low. My girlfriend actually didn't pick up on the salt until the Brewer mentioned it.
 
So my batch came out simply amazing using 0.5 oz of pink Himalayan salt. I did have a few people comment on the salt level, but it seemed to mellow out over time. I'd almost recommend going for slightly less than 0.5 oz (we'll call it 0.25-0.35 oz) if you intend to drink it right away or the full amount if you're patient enough to let it age for a month.
 
very nice. I think the salt level is very much an individual preference. I personally like the salt to be noticeable and find my preferred dose is 0.8-1 oz per 5 gallons; one of my friends keeps asking for more and really liked my batch when I dosed 1.25 oz. just like with food I guess (??) if you don't add any salt or coriander I think this recipe would make a decent berliner!
 
I really like the sound of this recipe and I'm getting ready to try it out myself. Glad to hear results have been good.

One thing I'm a bit unclear on-- you don't actually add a lacto culture? I'm assuming that's what the grains are for (At first I thought it was a typo that you say let the starter cool THEN add the grains, but it makes sense now). Do you think you can get pretty consistent results that way (actually isolate mostly lacto)?

Also, have you ever tried dry hopping this one? I had set out to make a hoppy sour then came across this recipe...I'm thinking a couple oz of Amarillo because that's supposedly what New Belgium uses in Le Terroir, and that is a phenomenal beer.

One more layer of complexity- raspberry gose sounds great, but is dry hopped raspberry gose just too damn much?
 
the lacto culture is grown from grain - the conditions for the starter culture favor lacto over whatever else is present in the grain...but it will always be a mixed bag. (I sterilize that flask in the dishwasher before using it for regular Sacc. strains.) that being said I've made perhaps 6-7 batches using this method and have not had any significant off flavors. and the boiling kills off everything so the full ferment is with Sacc. alone.

Interesting you mention dry-hopping...I do love Gose Gone Wild (I still prefer the base GGW over the variations) and made a batch of regular gose last year to which I added a 2L culture of GGW dregs (which contain Brett). waited 8 months or so and then dry-hopped it with Mosaic/Galaxy for a week before bottling. I liked it overall but there was an astringency that I believe was from the hops (I dumped 5 oz into the batch which was crystal clear at that point due to the long secondary brett ferment). the nose on that beer was fantastic though, just pure juicy tropical hops.

I'm by no means an expert but I haven't come across any dry-hopped fruit sours. Perhaps split a batch and see? Maybe others can chime in if those flavors might clash.
 
Just got to the souring stage last night- the starter had great activity a real nice, not too funky, aroma to it. After straining out the grains, a buddy of mine actually tasted a few of them (which I never would have been bold enough to do) and liked it, so then we were all grabbing handfuls and eating the sour grains. Not bad at all, they had a real clean sourness to them, maybe if dried out and toasted a little they'd make a great bar snack, or possibly go on hot dogs in place of sauerkraut--that'd be a great brewery gimmick if we ever make it that far.

Crossing my fingers nobody gets sick, but if it's mostly lacto in there, you could make an argument it's actually good for digestion (probiotics right?)
 
Just tasting the finished product and it is damn good. The only thing I did differently than outlined in the original post was add a couple tsp of lactic acid to the starter to get the pH down to 4-4.5. Added 3 oz Amarillo to the fermenter for a week after the yeast settled down and the result (I think) is phenomenal, sending this one to compete for sure.

One thing that's a bit off- getting a taste of "creamed corn" on the back end, not unpleasant, but seems out of place. I'm no judge but I believe it's DMS, and I think the short boil might be the culprit. Next time I'll try it with an hour long boil time. But I don't know, maybe I got more than lacto from the starter...

All in all a great recipe, amazing to get lacto from the grain instead of a culture.
 
hmm. never had that taste before but since it's a mixed culture starter you never know what might be in there even if it is lacto-predominant. shouldn't be from the malt though since it's all extract; I honestly don't know if a longer boil would reduce any DMS formed during the starter (but it may also volatilize some of the desirable flavors produced by the lacto). let us know how this one turns out in comp!
 
So, I'm thinking about making this Gose. Thanks for the recipe. My only big concern is how this will affect equipment afterwards? It's why I've never made a gose/sour .. I'm scared to taint my fermentor, equipment, etc.
 
good question. lacto is usually rather intolerant of hops but you never know what else might be there in small quantities. I use my "sour" bungs and airlocks for the starter and a separate 3 gallon carboy for the souring part which is not used for any other beers. after the boil all the microbes oughta be killed and I only pitch a saccaromyces strain so that goes into the usual "clean" equipment.

of note I've split a few batches (i.e. half a batch on fruit), and when I put half a finished batch back into the same 3 gal carboy for aging (un-fruited plain half), it eventually develops a pellicle from the lacto and I think some added complexity.
 
I just soured 5 gallons in a glass carboy and tied a ziplock bag tightly over the top with no bung or airlock. That way I can just bleach the heck out of the glass and not have to worry about contamination. I left it in my garage for 3 days and it has pretty much stayed between 85-100 degrees out there. PH is 3.5
 
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