Going Downhill

[brew2you]

I have been brewing for awhile now. I'm on batch #47 and things are starting to get worse. I just got my all grain system up and running and have made one beer with it. The rest have all been extract with specialty grains and most have been kits. My first 30+ batches were excellent (minus a few glitches here and there). Lately I notice I've not been hitting my OG or my FG. My beers have very low alcohol, no real body, and very little flavor. I've poured over my notes and not much has changed from the beginning other than- 1) I now boil with 3.5 gal of water instead of 2.5 gal. 2) I now leave in fermentor 3-4 weeks instead of 7-10 days or whenever I hit my FG.
I know this isn't a lot of info but it's really the only things different from when I made good beers. My beers have been RIS, Irish Stout, and an American Amber Ale that I have recently noticed problems with. Any ideas, help, comments, or questions would be greatly appreciated. The all grain had the same issues but I'll refer those to the proper forum along with lots more research. Thanks in advance!

 

[HollisBrewCo]

have you checked the calibration on the thermometer you use for your mash ?

 

[wonderbread23]

If you're only boiling 3.5 gallons of water in an all-grain batch and then topping off to 5 gallons, that is your issue. With all-grain, you'll typically run off 6+ gallons of wort for a 5 gallon final volume with no top off. Running off less than that will leave you with painfully low efficiencies, low OG's, and watery beer.

 

[brew2you]

The 3.5 gal was with the extract brews. I boil that then top off to 5 gal. I haven't checked my thermometer calibration tho. Are you thinking I'm steeping the grains at too low of a temp?

 

[Jakemo]

If you're only boiling 3.5 gallons of water in an all-grain batch and then topping off to 5 gallons, that is your issue. With all-grain, you'll typically run off 6+ gallons of wort for a 5 gallon final volume with no top off. Running off less than that will leave you with painfully low efficiencies, low OG's, and watery beer.

Not true. BIAB/MAIB for patial mash and/or all-grain can and will get you very close to the efficiency of a more traditional set-up. I've done it myself. But that's a discussion for another thread.

The 3.5 gal was with the extract brews. I boil that then top off to 5 gal. I haven't checked my thermometer calibration tho. Are you thinking I'm steeping the grains at too low of a temp?

Could you possibly walk us through, step-by-step, the process you've used to brew your all-grain beers? From the information you've provided, it's very hard to diagnose anything.

 

[Monstar]

I've only done one extract brew in my life (started all grain), for the novelty of it. I "missed" my target gravity by something like 20 points, which seemed weird. When I came here to ask about it, I got the response that the extract just wasn't mixed in good enough. Maybe that is your problem?

As long as you aren't diluting it down to a bigger batch than the recipe calls for, isn't it pretty much impossible to miss your target gravity on an extract batch?

 

[S0meB0dy]

Have you changed where you buy your grains/extract from? Are you sure they are fresh? You said you have changed from boiling 2.5gal to 3.5gal, have you adjusted your hop amounts to account for the change in boil volume? If not maybe the difference in bitterness is what you are tasting? Its pretty hard not to hit your target OG when brewing with extracts so that makes me wonder if the wort/topup water aren't being mixed thoroughly when you take your OG or if your hydrometer is off somehow. Have you checked it in water to make sure it is reading accurately?

 

[BBL_Brewer]

I wans't really happy with my first few all grain batches either. There is a bit of a learning curve when you switch from extract to all grain. Even once you get your process dialed in, recipes you used to brew with extract will still taste different than the all grain version. Not bad, just different. It takes a few brews to get back in the groove. You have full control over the final product now and will have to start thinking about how to manipulate your mash to tweak your beer instead of letting someone else do it for you.

 

[Spartan1979]

Are you using your own recipes or proven ones? With a kit, you are using a (hopefully) proven recipe. If you are using your own, try making a batch from a proven recipe and see if you are still having the same issues.

 

[fuhmon]

Have you changed where you buy your grains/extract from? Are you sure they are fresh? You said you have changed from boiling 2.5gal to 3.5gal, have you adjusted your hop amounts to account for the change in boil volume? If not maybe the difference in bitterness is what you are tasting? Its pretty hard not to hit your target OG when brewing with extracts so that makes me wonder if the wort/topup water aren't being mixed thoroughly when you take your OG or if your hydrometer is off somehow. Have you checked it in water to make sure it is reading accurately?

ya maybe the fermentability changed on your extracts?

 

[david_42]

Since you've only made one AG batch, I'm a bit puzzled as to the exact problem you are relating.

Have your extract batches been turning out differently?

 

[bruin_ale]

same question as the above.. you can't really miss your OG brewing extract unless your volume is off. If your extract batches are suddenly turning out worse, maybe your summer water supply changed or maybe your recent recipes just aren't up to snuff.

 

[brew2you]

The all grain batch I understand not being exactly right. It's a learning process. The real question is on the extract brews. Most of them are Brewers Best kits, so I know the recipes are correct. On the others I use their recipe but buy my ingredients seperate. That's what leads me to believe the problem is something I'm doing wrong. I haven't calibrated my hydrometer but will try and do it today before work. Another Problem is head retention. The beers aren't flat, but just barely carbonated.

Bruin Ale- This problem did start occuring once summer hit and I never checked my water. I never really thought about the water causing all these problems.

 

[Jakemo]

Those problems shouldn't come from water on extract+steeping batches. Again, can you walk us through the process, in detail, you used on your all-grain batch, and your typical process for an extract batch? You're not reality giving us any information to work with here, bud.

 

[bruin_ale]

while I agree that water is even more important in all-grain due to pH, etc. Water changing in the summer usually adds extra chlorine. That could most definitely affect the flavor of an extract batch - although not necessarily the problems he's pointing to. OP, can you walk us through your process for an extract batch? If you can't get those tasting right then something very basic is wrong. A hydrometer isn't the issue, with extract you can be pretty certain what your OG is based on the ingredients you put in there.

 

[cwheel]

What sort of yeast have you been using? I am sort of running into a similar problem (and I have well water that doesn't change). I also have started leaving my batches in the fermenter longer. Past few have been 3+ weeks, whereas some of the earlier ones I did where only fermenting for 7-10 days.

I just recently brewed a 2-hearted ale clone, and although it is delicious, it could use more flavor. I left it in the primary fermenter for 19 days, and a secondary fermenter for 4-5 days. I measured the FG at this point (at room temperature), and it was 1.005. That's really dry...I didn't even realize it could get that low. But I bet that dry beer is going to taste less flavorful than an identical batch that you don't let get so low.

Do you have any idea what your recent FGs have been for your extract brews? Forget the AG for now.

I've been listening to lots of episodes of Can You Brew It, and a # of commercial brewers indicate that they usually only ferment for 5 days, dry hop for a few, and then process (Lagunitas is one of those, where they ferment their IPA for 5 days, dry hop for 4, and then bottle).

I know there are a ton of people on HBT that will tell you that their 4+ week primary beers are delicious...but I'm wondering with all of the excellent yeast out there (as well as knowledge on how to keep them healthy), if it might not hurt for *some* of us to monitor FG and actually terminate fermentation when it is in a target range, as opposed to letting fermentaton run its full course?? I don't know, maybe I'm full of sh*t

 

[geezerpk]

I think you might run the risk of bottle bombs if you terminate fermentation at an arbitrary range rather than when all activity ceases.

 

[TTB-J]

Same thing happened to a friend of mine, his first dozen or so batches were awesome, then he got in a rut with a few that he didn't like. He also made the switch to all grain in the middle. His beers were good during that time, but there was just something a little off from each one (I.e. Lack of body or mouthfeel, not enough hop flavor, etc.). I found that he was far more critical than I was though, so I'm just going to throw a few things out there:

1) Let someone else taste all of your beers, preferably multiple people. I think you'd be surprised how good they are to the average person.
2) We bring a lot of baggage to tasting our own beers because we were going for certain flavors and characteristics. Sooner or later you have to accept that we can't achieve the consistency of the commercial guys because of the volumes were are dealing with, especially with all grain brews. Over time, we get better at controlling things down to the last detail, but there's no shame in the same recipe coming out a little different each time.
3) Your palette is probably becoming more refined and you're able to taste little things in brews that you might have glossed over before when you were first getting started. Again, don't let the minor flaws in a beer detract from what is, overall, a great taste experience for the average person.

I think a lot of ideas that people have thrown out are great, I would definitely use them to go through each step in your system. After all, we all want to get better and improve each time we brew, right? That being said, I couldn't help but note that some of your issues may be more of the mental variety than the physical. So I hope this helps!

 

[bruin_ale]

big breweries can ferment in 5 days because they are pitching the right amount of yeast and injecting oxygen. Since really starting to pay attention to yeast health I don't think I've had a ferment that didn't finish in a week. The yeast will finish where they finish, if you don't like that the yeast you're using is finishing dry, then try a less attenuative yeast.